New Talgos to the NW

[Gratt]

I do not know if anyone knows about this (I did not) but apparently WSDOT and/or ODOT is buying two Talgo train sets from the Wisconsin plant.

click here

First are these the two sets that were meant for Hiawatha service? Second they mention a lot of talk about the slight possibility of service to Boise and other such things.... I dont know what to make of it.

Though if these are the two sets that were meant for the Midwest, I dont think any of us are surprised. Honestly they are better off there, but the idea of using Talgo's to run outside of the cascade corridor seems like a massive waste to me. If you want service that badly buy some cheap heritage equipment. the Talgo's speed advantages will be wasted on such a route.

 

[jis]

I do not know if anyone knows about this (I did not) but apparently WSDOT and/or ODOT is buying two Talgo train sets from the Wisconsin plant.

click here

First are these the two sets that were meant for Hiawatha service? Second they mention a lot of talk about the slight possibility of service to Boise and other such things.... I dont know what to make of it.

Though if these are the two sets that were meant for the Midwest, I dont think any of us are surprised. Honestly they are better off there, but the idea of using Talgo's to run outside of the cascade corridor seems like a massive waste to me. If you want service that badly buy some cheap heritage equipment. the Talgo's speed advantages will be wasted on such a route.

AFAIR the Wisconsin plant was supposed to manufacture 4 sets - 2 for Cascade and 2 for Hiawatha.

 

[Trogdor]

That article is poorly written (I came to that conclusion after reading the first paragraph; but eventually did read the full article).

First, the headline says "More trains for NW may mean no more service." That's poorly worded for a couple of reasons.

Second, the first paragraph calls the Cascades route a HSR line. It is not.

Second they mention a lot of talk about the slight possibility of service to Boise and other such things.... I dont know what to make of it.

There is nothing to make of it. It's a railfan/advocacy organization putting something on a wish list. Nobody with any actual money to fund the service has it on their radar.

 

[JeffW]

"More trains for the NW may mean no more service."

Oh, no!!! By ordering more trains, the northwest can no longer offer train service! We need to get USrail21 to start planning a new system!

On a serious note, though, I'm pleased to see some acknowledgement that adding more trains to the system should be a regular part of maintaining and updating the fleet. If only this could be the case through more of the network...

 

[EB_OBS]

I can tell you that there are plans to add additional, daily, permanent runs between Seattle and Portland in the very near future. I only know this from overhearing talk regarding the new trainsets. I don't know anything specific about the plans nor if they've been altered due to the financial climate Amtrak currently finds itself in.

 

[EB_OBS]

Ok, after reading the article I seen the date 2017 for WSDOT's plans to increase the daily round trips to six from four. That's seems much further out than I had heard around the crew base in Seattle. Sorry I don't have any more info.

 

[Sactobob]

The December 2008 mid-range plan for the Cascade service, put out by Washington state DOT, speaks of receiving two new trainsets. They would both have 14 cars, whereas the existing sets have 12 cars. One of the sets would allow an additional daily round trip between Seattle and Portland, but when that could occur is uncertain. It may have to wait until completion of the Tacoma bypass. The other set would take the place of one of the existing trainsets. That could probably happen sooner. Then that older train set could be taken apart to add two cars to each of the other four older trainsets. That would immediately provide additional seating capacity without adding to the number of trips.

 

[AlanB]

The Talgo plant in Wisconsin has orders for 4 trainsets, two ordered by Wisconsin for the Hiawatha service; two ordered by ODOT for service on the Cascades line.

Talgo was counting on two more trainsets being ordered by Wisconsin, bringing the total to 4 new trainsets for Wisconsin. The additional two sets were needed to provide service to Madison. Of course when that extension died thanks to the Fed pulling the HSR funding, Wisconsin never committed to ordering the additional two sets.

 

[sechs]

That daylight run to Sacramento would be nice. One could actually see Shasta.

 

[trainviews]

The Talgo plant in Wisconsin has orders for 4 trainsets, two ordered by Wisconsin for the Hiawatha service; two ordered by ODOT for service on the Cascades line.

Talgo was counting on two more trainsets being ordered by Wisconsin, bringing the total to 4 new trainsets for Wisconsin. The additional two sets were needed to provide service to Madison. Of course when that extension died thanks to the Fed pulling the HSR funding, Wisconsin never committed to ordering the additional two sets.

Err... the FEDs did not pull the funding for the Madison route. The dickhead governor of Wisconsin rejected the funding already made available...

 

[Trogdor]

The Talgo plant in Wisconsin has orders for 4 trainsets, two ordered by Wisconsin for the Hiawatha service; two ordered by ODOT for service on the Cascades line.

Talgo was counting on two more trainsets being ordered by Wisconsin, bringing the total to 4 new trainsets for Wisconsin. The additional two sets were needed to provide service to Madison. Of course when that extension died thanks to the Fed pulling the HSR funding, Wisconsin never committed to ordering the additional two sets.

Err... the FEDs did not pull the funding for the Madison route. The dickhead governor of Wisconsin rejected the funding already made available...

The feds did pull the funding, before Walker was inaugurated. Walker's opposition certainly influenced USDOT's decision, but it was ultimately the federal government's decision, not Wisconsin's.

Also, as much as we both dislike Walker, let's not pretend that the previous administration in Wisconsin did much of anything right in planning and promoting the project.

 

[PerRock]

I was under the impression that Walker tried to use the funding for the Highways instead of the Hiawatha route. Hence why the Feds pulled the funding.

At least the previous administration over there got the funding & found a car manufacturer, had a route planned, had stations about to be built. Seems to me like they've done a fair bit more on the project then Walker did.

peter

 

[Trogdor]

I was under the impression that Walker tried to use the funding for the Highways instead of the Hiawatha route. Hence why the Feds pulled the funding.

Walker didn't "try" anything because the money was gone before he was inaugurated into office. He mentioned a lot of things he wanted to do, none of which would have been permissible under the terms of the grant anyway, had the money not been pulled before he took office.

At least the previous administration over there got the funding

True.

found a car manufacturer,

The Talgo deal was a horrible deal that is going to cost both the state and Talgo tons of money. The general feeling I get is that those trains will be up for sale in a few years (maybe Washington/Oregon will want some more for spares when they finally get their service expanded in five or six years), and Wisconsin will join the bi-level bandwagon, like they should have done all along.

had a route planned, had stations about to be built.

It took them years to pull their head out of their rears and realize that Madison's airport was not where the route should go. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together (gee, now I'm starting to sound like GML) could have told them from the beginning that the route should go downtown, or it wouldn't be worth building at all.

Seems to me like they've done a fair bit more on the project then Walker did.

A lot of the initial planning was actually done under Tommy Thompson (the oddly anti-rail rail advocate governor). Still, I never said the Doyle administration didn't do much of anything, just that they didn't do much of anything right.

 

[PerRock]

If folks are still curious Oregon DOT has a flickr acc't where they have been posting pictures of their new talgos.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/oregondot/sets/72157629281025352/

peter

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

I was under the impression that Walker tried to use the funding for the Highways instead of the Hiawatha route. Hence why the Feds pulled the funding.

At least the previous administration over there got the funding & found a car manufacturer, had a route planned, had stations about to be built. Seems to me like they've done a fair bit more on the project then Walker did.

peter

To say that the Feds pulled the funds is technically true, but misleading.

Here is the time line, excerpted (and updated) from the recent thread concerning the WI Talgos' fate:

Current WI Governor Walker ran, among other things, on a platform of halting the upgrading of the rail line from Milwaukee to Madison for passenger service at 110 mph speeds (ancillary improvements would have been made to the CHI - Milwaukee route). The project was well-advanced, with decisions on things like the location of the Madison station (and associated redevelopment of two downtown blocks, creation of a multi-modal tranport hub) mostly in hand. A majority of funding had been secured with a Federal stimulus rail grant of $810 million (out of a total of $8 billion pledged around the country). It was supposed to be the first segment of an eventual route to Minneapolis / St. Paul. Wisconsin had further obligated $47 million to the construction of two Talgo train sets (with an option for two more), and Talgo had set up a North American headquarters in "pro rail" Wisconsin, now slated for closure.

 

When Walker won the election (November 2010), the Democratic Governer James Doyle suspended the design and engineering work on the line (decision announced on November 4th), since he felt it likely that any funds spent would have to be reimbursed to the Feds in case the project was, indeed, canceled.

 

True to his promise, Walker quickly confirmed his intent to US Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood (and, yes, asked to use the funds for highways, instead — LaHood said "no"). The grant was withdrawn in December, and the funds (along with another $400 million from an Ohio project canceled in similar circumstances) were re-distributed to other states, notably California and Washington State. A big chunk also went to Florida, but which had also elected a Republican governor, and he soon canceled his state's project. The bulk of those funds wound up in Illinois, for use on the Chicago - St. Louis line.

 

Walker now faces a recall election this June.

 

But all is not lost: the original high speed rail project has been replaced with a much more efficient one, as this Madison, WI, report shows:

 

http://www.theonion....with-hig,18473/

 

[TraneMan]

I am guessing that when these cars are going out west, are they going to be going on their own on the EB route, or get tagged behind it?

 

[sechs]

I am guessing that when these cars are going out west, are they going to be going on their own on the EB route, or get tagged behind it?

Depending on the requirements, they could end up as freight for BNSF.

 

[jis]

Who knows? Maybe Gene down in Florida will strike a deal with Talgo?