Northeast Regional discussion

[HammerJack]

Amtrak was able to squeeze some extra runs into the timetable, but I’m curious how they did it. Without using HHP8s, met cab cars, or running a motor on each end, you still need to accomplish some switching at NYP or WAS.

At NYP and WAS lower level, running the engine around the consist would probably work, although it requires a free track to make the move; not sure they can just assume a track will be open.

At WAS upper level, there’s no way to run the engine around, so they’d need a second motor to avoid wyeing the train.

Even if they run the motor around at WAS lower level, are they really going to use that space on Washington originators and terminators? There’s already a handful of trains that run south of DC, plus the VRE parade during rush hours.

Obviously once the HHP8s show up, this will become a lot simpler. I’m just curious how they’re doing it now. Perhaps they’re still wyeing at WAS and taking the loop at NYP, and the time saved from not flipping seats allowed for a few extra trips per day.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Amtrak was able to squeeze some extra runs into the timetable, but I’m curious how they did it. Without using HHP8s, met cab cars, or running a motor on each end, you still need to accomplish some switching at NYP or WAS.

At NYP and WAS lower level, running the engine around the consist would probably work, although it requires a free track to make the move; not sure they can just assume a track will be open.

At WAS upper level, there’s no way to run the engine around, so they’d need a second motor to avoid wyeing the train.

Even if they run the motor around at WAS lower level, are they really going to use that space on Washington originators and terminators? There’s already a handful of trains that run south of DC, plus the VRE parade during rush hours.

Obviously once the HHP8s show up, this will become a lot simpler. I’m just curious how they’re doing it now. Perhaps they’re still wyeing at WAS and taking the loop at NYP, and the time saved from not flipping seats allowed for a few extra trips per day.

There are a few consists that have ACS-64s on both ends that are making round trips. Some are running 3 times a day, dropping a motor before leaving on the 3rd trip.

Here’s 114(07) with double ended motors crossing the Susquehanna River.

 

[PaTrainFan]

There's this from YouTube.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

There's this from YouTube.

It’s not currently push-pull. It’s double ended with the lead motor powering the train. Though both motors have their pans up.
When the HHP-C’s are ready then those trains will be push-pull.

 

[Acela150]

It’s not currently push-pull. It’s double ended with the lead motor powering the train. Though both motors have their pans up.
When the HHP-C’s are ready then those trains will be push-pull.

Both motors are powering in this case. If the pans were down on one then it wouldn’t be providing any motive power to the train.

 

[jis]

Both motors are powering in this case. If the pans were down on one then it wouldn’t be providing any motive power to the train.

Thank you. That’s what I thought. No need to have the panto up if it is not providing power. Of course only one loco is providing HEP and other is isolated from HEP.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Both motors are powering in this case. If the pans were down on one then it wouldn’t be providing any motive power to the train.

Interesting that Amtrak has enough ACS-64s to top and tail these Regional consists. Imagine this puts some strain on utilization. It will be better when the HHP-8 "cabbages" arrive.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Interesting that Amtrak has enough ACS-64s to top and tail these Regional consists. Imagine this puts some strain on utilization. It will be better when the HHP-8 "cabbages" arrive.

It's only 4 consists, I believe, so only 4 extra ACS-64s needed.

 

[west point]

You can here both Sprinters winding up its inverters especially the ones that make a station stop. Good way to keep the trains on time with all that acceleration. With 2 sprinters give each train 4 available HEP converters. That would back up any one HEP inverter failure.

 

[user 13416]

100% not a fan of the Amfleets not getting turned. I get why they're doing it, but I already have a hard enough time finding a forward-facing seat on the Keystone. Riding backwards makes me sick very quickly, less than a minute riding backwards I have to stand up and face the other direction or I'll throw up. I know the Virginia trains won't ever be doing push/pull thanks to Diesel operation, but they're likely going to leave the Amfleets in 50/50 configuration so half the seats will be backwards. Northbound won't be a problem because the train's empty when I board. But southbound the train's packed when I board. Even if I was eventually able to move seats after a few stops, just the thought of having to ride backwards that long is enough to make me return to I-95.

 

[jis]

100% not a fan of the Amfleets not getting turned. I get why they're doing it, but I already have a hard enough time finding a forward-facing seat on the Keystone. Riding backwards makes me sick very quickly, less than a minute riding backwards I have to stand up and face the other direction or I'll throw up. I know the Virginia trains won't ever be doing push/pull thanks to Diesel operation, but they're likely going to leave the Amfleets in 50/50 configuration so half the seats will be backwards. Northbound won't be a problem because the train's empty when I board. But southbound the train's packed when I board. Even if I was eventually able to move seats after a few stops, just the thought of having to ride backwards that long is enough to make me return to I-95.

Within the next several years even the Virginia trains will be bidirectional, as soon as they start using Airos, which they all will eventually.

Moreover, even with diesel power, nothing stops them from sticking a cabbage at the other end and not turn the trains and run them push-pull, so don't bet your farm on that either.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

FYI the back to back seats in my car on 111(13) were rows 10 & 11

 

[Acela150]

FYI the back to back seats in my car on 111(13) were rows 10 & 11

Was this in coach? Or Biz?

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

Within the next several years even the Virginia trains will be bidirectional, as soon as they start using Airos, which they all will eventually.

Moreover, even with diesel power, nothing stops them from sticking a cabbage at the other end and not turn the trains and run them push-pull, so don't bet your farm on that either.

Does this mean new terminal stations will not need a wye, or one long enough for a full train? Roaming Railfan in his videos had access to the Brightline maintenance facility in Orlando and said the wye could not turn a full train, if I recall correctly.

The new Newport News station, opening in April or May, has both a full-length wye just upline from the station, and a separate siding for service a half mile downline from the station. I'm not sure "why" but the wye is hemmed in by a retention pond and a bridge embankment.

 

[jis]

Does this mean new terminal stations will not need a wye, or one long enough for a full train? Roaming Railfan in his videos had access to the Brightline maintenance facility in Orlando and said the wye could not turn a full train, if I recall correctly.

Brightline trains are not turned. They have a loco at each end. The only thing they might ever need to turn is a loco.

So yes, it is true that once Airos are fully deployed terminal stations that only host Airo train will not need a Wye anymore, though I suspect that a Wye that is already in place will not be dismantled in a hurry either.

I have been to both the Orlando and the West Palm Beach maintenance facilities. Yes they have a short Wye at Orlando and none at WPB.. Afterall there is a giant Wye close by where the line from Hialeah Yard comes and joins the FECR coastal line. But I doubt that it is ever used as a Wye. Afterall neither Brightline nor TriRail trains need to be turned.

The new Newport News station, opening in April or May, has both a full-length wye just upline from the station, and a separate siding for service a half mile downline from the station. I'm not sure "why" but the wye is hemmed in by a retention pond and a bridge embankment.

Airos, just like Acelas today will never need to be turned since they will all have a cab car at the non-powered end.

Actually there have been a few occasions when Acelas have been turned to work around the failure of cab signaling equipment at one end of the train. But those are very few and far between.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Was this in coach? Or Biz?

Coach … you know I’m cheap.

Was this in coach? Or Biz?

And the same split on 176 yesterday

 

[Amtrak25]

Amfleet all have a big fat window pillar near the center of the car, carryover in Budd from Metroliners and RDC's, which means a windowless seat row.

I notice in a photo of an Amfleet-1 interior a few days ago that the seats change direction one seat row away from that fat pillar. Would it have helped matters any if they chose to have the seats reverse direction at that window pillar ?

 

[City of Miami]

I wonder why NER176 was changed to NER134 after all these years. 171, the opposing route #, has not changed and the schedule for both has not changed.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I wonder why NER176 was changed to NER134 after all these years. 171, the opposing route #, has not changed and the schedule for both has not changed.

It swapped numbers with 134. I don’t know why, just that they swapped.

Perhaps because it seems like the number of the trains on the NEC increase as the day progresses, so 134 should run before 176 which it now does.

 

[City of Miami]

It swapped numbers with 134. I don’t know why, just that they swapped.

Perhaps because it seems like the number of the trains on the NEC increase as the day progresses, so 134 should run before 176 which it now does.

I see now 134 terminates NYP rather than BOS as 176 did. More like the weekend service.

 

[Widfara]

Sadly, instead of being on the Cardinal right now, I've had to cancel the trip due to a sudden medical emergency. I've got a case number open to get a waiver of the sleeper cancellation fee, by getting a doctor's note to them. I hope to do the trip later on when my giant cells are more settled down.

 

[Acela150]

For those who are interested in where the seats are split in Business Class….
Row 8 faces the restrooms, Row 9 faces the tables.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Sadly, instead of being on the Cardinal right now, I've had to cancel the trip due to a sudden medical emergency. I've got a case number open to get a waiver of the sleeper cancellation fee, by getting a doctor's note to them. I hope to do the trip later on when my giant cells are more settled down.

I hope you recover soon and can reschedule your trip.

 

[Jimbochap]

Since we board in Roanoke going northbound we will have no problem getting a forward facing seat since #134 starts there in Roanoke, just a little worried about getting a forward facing seat when boarding either in Trenton or the Metro Park heading southbound on # 171? What do you think our chances of finding 2 side by side forward facing seats at those 2 stops when heading southbound?

 

[fdaley]

Since we board in Roanoke going northbound we will have no problem getting a forward facing seat since #134 starts there in Roanoke, just a little worried about getting a forward facing seat when boarding either in Trenton or the Metro Park heading southbound on # 171? What do you think our chances of finding 2 side by side forward facing seats at those 2 stops when heading southbound?

Not good, but better if you act quickly at Philadelphia, where a lot of people are likely to get off. Of course, lots more will board there too.