P42's with issues...again

[Shawn]

So, I took the CS south from Tacoma to Portland and return tonight....

Southbound- It was about 15 mins late into Tacoma, as the headlight on the lead unit (150) died on the way, and the supervisor at Amtrak had them doing restricted speed over every grade crossing. BNSF showed up at Tacoma, but they could figure out anything...so we continued on, restricted speed over the crossings. Finally around Steilacoom, they must have "read" the rule and figured out that was only at night...and the sup's allowed us to continue at track speed...granted the ditch lights continued to work. We were about 30 mins late into Portland, and maintenance surrounded the locomotive. Not sure if they got it working...or if they swapped 117 to the front.

Northbound- CS was about an hour late getting in, believe it was still left over drama from a broken rail near Salem in the morning...The EB's locomotive died just prior to them boarding, the decision was made to take the lead unit off #14 and put it on #28. So, that delayed us a little. The take-off's were a bit slow and the engineer was a little worried about getting over the hill in Vader, since we crossed over and lost speed. But I was happy to say, a single P42 did good with 11 cars.

So, apparently the P42's are back to failing some more....I seem to be a magnet for locomotive problems... hehe

 

[amtrakwolverine]

do the headlights use standard incandescent bulbs or halogens.maybe they should have tried replacing the lamp. maybe it blew.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I'm sure they don't use standard incandescent bulbs.

Nobody uses them anymore. In fact, I think they stopped making them.

 

[Shawn]

Looked like "GE" Halogens in the boxes. And they didn't think it was the bulbs...as both of the twin beams went out. And apparently changing the lights isn't easy on the P42's

 

[wayman]

Looked like "GE" Halogens in the boxes. And they didn't think it was the bulbs...as both of the twin beams went out. And apparently changing the lights isn't easy on the P42's

Ok, I'll bite... How many Amtrak Unlimited foamers does it take to change a P42 lightbulb? :lol:

 

[Dutchrailnut]

do the headlights use standard incandescent bulbs or halogens.maybe they should have tried replacing the lamp. maybe it blew.

They use 375 watt 64 volt sealed beam special locomotive head light bulbs.

Each bulb is 200 000 Candela minimum.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Correct on the P40/P42/P32acdm a pirex glass needs to be removed from outside to get to the bulbs, The Pirex glass is secured with 12 or so allan bolts.

 

[had8ley]

Correct on the P40/P42/P32acdm a pirex glass needs to be removed from outside to get to the bulbs, The Pirex glass is secured with 12 or so allan bolts.

Good gosh Dutch~ you almost need to bring a tool bag just to change a headlight! I'll take an old GP-38 any day. EMD seemed to simplify things to make them easier to work on. I'll never forgive GE for the ladders from hell (or should I say climbing up from hell?) on the U-23's and later series. We had robust fellows having to turn side wise just to walk the catwalk and enter these GE junkers.

 

[frj1983]

Correct on the P40/P42/P32acdm a pirex glass needs to be removed from outside to get to the bulbs, The Pirex glass is secured with 12 or so allan bolts.

Good gosh Dutch~ you almost need to bring a tool bag just to change a headlight! I'll take an old GP-38 any day. EMD seemed to simplify things to make them easier to work on. I'll never forgive GE for the ladders from hell (or should I say climbing up from hell?) on the U-23's and later series. We had robust fellows having to turn side wise just to walk the catwalk and enter these GE junkers.

I agree Had8ley,

You have to unscrew 12 bolts to change a headlight? Thats screwy! :blink:

Did the designers never think that such would have to be changed en-route? And one thinks Amtrak workers might have complained about this when they first saw it or retrofitted a solution!

12 AlanB's huh?LOL

Sorry AlanB, I couldn't resist!

 

[Chris J.]

I agree Had8ley,
You have to unscrew 12 bolts to change a headlight? Thats screwy! :blink:

Did the designers never think that such would have to be changed en-route? And one thinks Amtrak workers might have complained about this when they first saw it or retrofitted a solution!

At least it's not a Renault Megane - apparently to change the headlight you need to take the bumper (fender) off. French engineering at it's best :lol:

 

[had8ley]

I agree Had8ley,
You have to unscrew 12 bolts to change a headlight? Thats screwy! :blink:

Did the designers never think that such would have to be changed en-route? And one thinks Amtrak workers might have complained about this when they first saw it or retrofitted a solution!

At least it's not a Renault Megane - apparently to change the headlight you need to take the bumper (fender) off. French engineering at it's best :lol:

Let's hope Renault doesn't bid on the new rail cars !!!

 

[Hanno]

Looked like "GE" Halogens in the boxes. And they didn't think it was the bulbs...as both of the twin beams went out. And apparently changing the lights isn't easy on the P42's

Ok, I'll bite... How many Amtrak Unlimited foamers does it take to change a P42 lightbulb? :lol:

Good question! Based on the complexity it looks we would be in the dark for quite a while!

 

[battalion51]

Every engine is always going to have its issues. That's just the nature of the beast. Every motor is going to have a failure once in a while, it's just a question of the failure. Unfortunately for Amtrak it only has a couple of shops that can handle big failures (LA, Chicago, Beech Grove, and Wilmington). Most of the major freight roads have more of these, so they're able to catch up with these failures quicker than Amtrak can.

 

[had8ley]

Every engine is always going to have its issues. That's just the nature of the beast. Every motor is going to have a failure once in a while, it's just a question of the failure. Unfortunately for Amtrak it only has a couple of shops that can handle big failures (LA, Chicago, Beech Grove, and Wilmington). Most of the major freight roads have more of these, so they're able to catch up with these failures quicker than Amtrak can.

If I may I'd like to make one comment to your post. We did a study about 10 years ago on GE and EMD engines. A person had a 39% greater chance of getting hurt on GE equipment. The road failure rate of GE's to EMD's was almost three to one. If I climbed on a dead EMD I had some confidence that I might get it cranked up; with a GE I was just getting my exercise crawling inside the engine compartment about 90% of the time. I'm sure there are GE fans out there but I guarantee one trip over the Huey P. Long bridge with about 15,000 tons and GE's bucking and dropping the load and you would be a believer that the best place for GE's is the junque yard.

 

[Mark]

Every engine is always going to have its issues. That's just the nature of the beast. Every motor is going to have a failure once in a while, it's just a question of the failure. Unfortunately for Amtrak it only has a couple of shops that can handle big failures (LA, Chicago, Beech Grove, and Wilmington). Most of the major freight roads have more of these, so they're able to catch up with these failures quicker than Amtrak can.

If I may I'd like to make one comment to your post. We did a study about 10 years ago on GE and EMD engines. A person had a 39% greater chance of getting hurt on GE equipment. The road failure rate of GE's to EMD's was almost three to one. If I climbed on a dead EMD I had some confidence that I might get it cranked up; with a GE I was just getting my exercise crawling inside the engine compartment about 90% of the time. I'm sure there are GE fans out there but I guarantee one trip over the Huey P. Long bridge with about 15,000 tons and GE's bucking and dropping the load and you would be a believer that the best place for GE's is the junque yard.

No kidding- about 10 years ago, so this study, was it done across the board or just on certain models, say SD70M vs Dash 8s or 9s for example? I would be very interested in seeing a failure rate comparison, (for all units), on any one of the big roads. My next question is: Then why have the big roads shifted from EMD to predominantly GE power in the last 10 years? I mean its right there in Trains Magazine, GE is outselling EMD almost 2 to 1 or more in most cases. UP, BNSF, NS, CSXT, CN and CP all have placed significant orders and continue to buy the GE product.

 

[Mark]

As an afterthought, I have had one of each major Amtrak locomotive break down in my time of riding Amtrak which started in 1979. SDP40F on the SSL, I remember boarding in Tucson and being disappointed that there was an SP unit in the lead. I think this was 1980.

The Inter American, (now the Texas Eagle), only ran 2 coaches and a cafe out of San Antonio, (it used to originate in Laredo), then grew picking up a coach in Dallas or FTW and another Coach in STL. An F40PH went down at some point in the night. I remember waking because we were standing still. Then we limped along for along while. We picked up a BN unit in STL. This was either 81 or 82. I'm not sure.

I went pretty much through the rest of the 80s and 90s without any significant locomotive break downs that I can remember.

In 2007 P42DC 126 broke down just after Naperville IL. We were pushed into the Metra Station in Aurora. Where I terminated my trip and took Metra back home.

The same year or maybe it was 2008. a Hiawatha had a problem with the cab-control unit. The P42DC could pull us to Milw but something with the electrical kept it from shoving back to Chicago. This problem surfaced just after the airport stop heading south. We sat for about an hour then the decision was made to pull us back to Downtown Milw and wait for the other Hia. The end result was this mega Hia heading south with both sets together. I wasn't in a hurry so I thought it was all a good show. I got home about three hours later and ended up getting a $40 voucher. Roughly the price of the round trip ticket! But this wasn't a P42 issue it was a problem with the Cabbage.

I've had my fair share of Amtrak trips, (which are significantly more now than they were in the 80s and 90s), so my personal failure rate for the P42 isn't all that bad based on the number of trips per year.

I don't ever recall having a P30CH, an HHP 8 or an AEM7 break down. We did have a P32ACDM stall out enroute to ALB on the LSL. We sat for about 15 minutes, (I got the play by play on the scanner), then the Engineer was able to restart. While that was going on an impatient, (probably very busy dispatcher), kept calling us. It was cool to hear the dispatcher ask the Conductor if he should send the 'rescue engine'. That was the only time I'd ever heard that. In the end we got going and swapped for P42s at ALB ending in Chicago only about 15 minutes late.

 

[oldtimer]

Any Railroader that has ever worked in a roundhouse or locomotive shop knows that G E stands for Guaranteed Employment!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Correct on the P40/P42/P32acdm a pirex glass needs to be removed from outside to get to the bulbs, The Pirex glass is secured with 12 or so allan bolts.

Good gosh Dutch~ you almost need to bring a tool bag just to change a headlight! I'll take an old GP-38 any day. EMD seemed to simplify things to make them easier to work on. I'll never forgive GE for the ladders from hell (or should I say climbing up from hell?) on the U-23's and later series. We had robust fellows having to turn side wise just to walk the catwalk and enter these GE junkers.

I agree Had8ley,

You have to unscrew 12 bolts to change a headlight? Thats screwy! :blink:

Did the designers never think that such would have to be changed en-route? And one thinks Amtrak workers might have complained about this when they first saw it or retrofitted a solution!

12 AlanB's huh?LOL

Sorry AlanB, I couldn't resist!

but its still easyer then changing a headlight on a car

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Changing a lightbulb on a car is easy. Or at least it is on my old Mercedes.

 

[Ryan]

Easy as pie on my Tahoe - pull 2 pins and the housing comes out, change the lightbulb and you're on your way.

 

[abqdave]

If I may I'd like to make one comment to your post. We did a study about 10 years ago on GE and EMD engines. A person had a 39% greater chance of getting hurt on GE equipment. The road failure rate of GE's to EMD's was almost three to one. If I climbed on a dead EMD I had some confidence that I might get it cranked up; with a GE I was just getting my exercise crawling inside the engine compartment about 90% of the time. I'm sure there are GE fans out there but I guarantee one trip over the Huey P. Long bridge with about 15,000 tons and GE's bucking and dropping the load and you would be a believer that the best place for GE's is the junque yard.

I hope locomotives made by Motive Power are good ones, since NM RailRunner has 5 of them.

Amtrak and the big freight railroads have facilities they can repair locomotives in. What do commuter railroads or smaller freight railroads do? There have been a fair number of commuter railroads spring up over the last few years, like in Albuquerque and Salt Lake City. I assume most or all of them are too small to justify having the cost of maintenance shops. So for routine maintenance like changing light bulbs, or changing the oil (if you do that to locomotives), do they just do it outdoors in the rail yard?

And in a few years when the locomotives are older and start needing repairs, do they pay Amtrak or one of the freight railroads to repair the locomotives for them?

(fixed quote - AmtrakWPK)

 

[tp49]

I hope locomotives made by Motive Power are good ones, since NM RailRunner has 5 of them.
Amtrak and the big freight railroads have facilities they can repair locomotives in. What do commuter railroads or smaller freight railroads do? There have been a fair number of commuter railroads spring up over the last few years, like in Albuquerque and Salt Lake City. I assume most or all of them are too small to justify having the cost of maintenance shops. So for routine maintenance like changing light bulbs, or changing the oil (if you do that to locomotives), do they just do it outdoors in the rail yard?

And in a few years when the locomotives are older and start needing repairs, do they pay Amtrak or one of the freight railroads to repair the locomotives for them?

I would figure that for minor or routine maintenance the smaller commuter roads probably have a place set up where these procedures can safely be done. As for major mainetnance they probably contract out either to Amtrak or to someone else capable of performing the necessary service.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Any Railroader that has ever worked in a roundhouse or locomotive shop knows that G E stands for Guaranteed Employment!

Just remember GE hold now over 60 % of locomotive market in North America, with EMD in tailspin.

As for passenger power, I hear not to many locomotive engineers cheering about the Dildo's.

As for EMD they are out of passenger locomotive building forever, leaving passenger engines to little niche builders.

 

[frj1983]

Any Railroader that has ever worked in a roundhouse or locomotive shop knows that G E stands for Guaranteed Employment!

Just remember GE hold now over 60 % of locomotive market in North America, with EMD in tailspin.

As for passenger power, I hear not to many locomotive engineers cheering about the Dildo's.

As for EMD they are out of passenger locomotive building forever, leaving passenger engines to little niche builders.

Thats funny,

If you go here: http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/loco_index.jsp

You see that EMD still offers passenger locomotives in their catalog. Admittedly they do not focus on a particular model, but they seem to be open to building them. And I have heard it said from some railroad engineers that I know, GE has the Lion's Share of the market, partly because they have offered better financing packages for the railroads in the past.

And I believe, (correct me if I'm wrong), Motive Power uses EMD engines.

 

[had8ley]

Every engine is always going to have its issues. That's just the nature of the beast. Every motor is going to have a failure once in a while, it's just a question of the failure. Unfortunately for Amtrak it only has a couple of shops that can handle big failures (LA, Chicago, Beech Grove, and Wilmington). Most of the major freight roads have more of these, so they're able to catch up with these failures quicker than Amtrak can.

If I may I'd like to make one comment to your post. We did a study about 10 years ago on GE and EMD engines. A person had a 39% greater chance of getting hurt on GE equipment. The road failure rate of GE's to EMD's was almost three to one. If I climbed on a dead EMD I had some confidence that I might get it cranked up; with a GE I was just getting my exercise crawling inside the engine compartment about 90% of the time. I'm sure there are GE fans out there but I guarantee one trip over the Huey P. Long bridge with about 15,000 tons and GE's bucking and dropping the load and you would be a believer that the best place for GE's is the junque yard.

No kidding- about 10 years ago, so this study, was it done across the board or just on certain models, say SD70M vs Dash 8s or 9s for example? I would be very interested in seeing a failure rate comparison, (for all units), on any one of the big roads. My next question is: Then why have the big roads shifted from EMD to predominantly GE power in the last 10 years? I mean its right there in Trains Magazine, GE is outselling EMD almost 2 to 1 or more in most cases. UP, BNSF, NS, CSXT, CN and CP all have placed significant orders and continue to buy the GE product.

Unfortunately, GE ships tons of goods via rail and is probably one of the biggest "wide-load" & high revenue shippers in the country. Heck, GE even owns NBC network so $$$ talks. I believe that GE is still in Erie, PA while EMD has moved to Canada which may have a strangle hold on "buy American." I've never aspired to walk the carpets in a board room but I'm almost positive politics is a major player. One lousy trip on a U-23 would send many politicians to a shrink but they'll never put on a pair of jeans and a T-shirt to find out just how bad a product GE can produce. I have personally noticed that every time EMD would come out with a new loco GE would come out with a higher horsepower loco to match. EMD's GP-38 was rated for 2,000 HP while the GE U-23 was rated at 2250 HP.

In reference to the study; GE was forced to re-design the steps on the Dash-8's as the result of the study. All later models were mandated to have a ladder that was acceptable to the Class 1's.