Predominant Positioning of Sleeper(s) on Train 448?

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Train Attendant
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Not so much where in the consist the car(s) can be found, but rather whether there is a greater likelihood the roomette end of the car will be positioned ahead of the bedroom end. I ask this because I want to be on a certain side of the train for scenery and sun angle purposes. Also, will the car change direction in Rensselaer?

Now I know that probably there is no consistency, because this is Amtrak. But just in case, I'm asking the question.
 

Rasputin

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In my experience on 448 (and 449) from eight or ten trips the past ten years, the bedrooms have been at the front and the roomettes behind, except for one time on 448 when the bedrooms were behind the roomettes.

Car direction does not change in Albany so if you are on the north side from Chicago to Albany you will be on the north side Albany to Boston.
 

the_traveler

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I know there is no “Dining Car” anymore, but it was bad enough that the DC was at the other end of the train from the 448/449 sleeper. Now the “Sleeper Lounge” is at the other end of the train!
 

Rasputin

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Bedrooms in front puts the vestibule closer to the center of the train.
If I recall correctly, on the viewliner sleepers on 448/449 the vestibules are at the bedroom end which generally places the vestibule right behind the locomotive and not closer to the center of the train.
 

the_traveler

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That is true.

The vestibule is on the H-Room end, the roomette end just has a sliding door directly to the next car.
 

PVD

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The one fairly consistent placement is the vestibule end of the NY section viewliner next to the diner will provide a vestibule for the diner which has none.
 

Dakota 400

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Why does where the vestibule make a difference? The bedroom end of the sleeping car is going to get to the same place at the same time as the roomette end of the sleeping car.

Trying to determine whether one's sleeper car's accommodation is on one side of the train or the other seems futile to me. Nothing wrong to try to determine such, but, I have yet to be successful in doing so.
 

PVD

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The vestibule is relevant when it is used to provide emergency egress for the dining car, because it has none of its own. Otherwise, not much to think about.
 

Palmetto

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I know there is no “Dining Car” anymore, but it was bad enough that the DC was at the other end of the train from the 448/449 sleeper. Now the “Sleeper Lounge” is at the other end of the train!
Most probably because Amtrak does not want to switch out cars en route. Call it laziness or whatever, but passenger comfort seems not to be their strong suit.
 

Dakota 400

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The vestibule is relevant when it is used to provide emergency egress for the dining car, because it has none of its own.
Doesn't the dining car have windows that can be opened in an emergency situation?
 

John Santos

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Most probably because Amtrak does not want to switch out cars en route. Call it laziness or whatever, but passenger comfort seems not to be their strong suit.
Switching out cars takes time. I don't think it's laziness. I think it is keeping the schedule and not paying employees to do busy work for no particular reason.
 

John Santos

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Doesn't the dining car have windows that can be opened in an emergency situation?
I think so, but opening the windows and using them is much harder and more dangerous (10 foot drop to the ground, on to steel rails, oak or concrete ties, and gravel, not soft dirt or grass, plus the danger of other trains, which are much harder to watch out for when trying to climb out a window. The window exits are mostly in case the car has derailed and is on its side, or if there is a fire. They are the LAST choice in an emergency.

Also, do the Viewliner diners have a service door, or does all the stocking and trash removal have to be done through a vestibule on an adjacent car? If no service door, then they would definitely much rather have at least one adjacent car's vestibule on the end closest to the diner.
 

Dakota 400

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I think so, but opening the windows and using them is much harder and more dangerous (10 foot drop to the ground, on to steel rails, oak or concrete ties, and gravel, not soft dirt or grass, plus the danger of other trains, which are much harder to watch out for when trying to climb out a window. The window exits are mostly in case the car has derailed and is on its side, or if there is a fire. They are the LAST choice in an emergency.
I actually have thought about your stated concerns every time when I am in a sleeper accommodation and have looked at that emergency window exit from the bedroom or roomette. Surely would not be an easy thing to do and for many it might be an impossibility.
 

PVD

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If passenger need to get off the train in an orderly fashion, you do it at a vestibule. A window is last resort. I don't know if the service door has a trap with steps, I know there is at least one, but am not sure if there is one on both sides. Also, keep in mind that some folks like the sleepers further towards the front or back, it cuts down on coach passengers walking through..
 

Seaboard92

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The placement of the Viewliner Sleepers is always relevant to the nearest food service car. I want to say it might have something to do with ADA. As you know room H is always facing the diner/cafe depending on the train. When the sleeper is on the front of the train the vestibule trails, when the sleeper is on the rear the vestibule leads.

The other thing to remember is this. The A End of the car is the side without the vestibule. The B End is the side with the vestibule. However it is also called the B End because of the Handbrake.

The diners do not have traps on their service door, it is a ladder down to the ground. Historically this goes for all diners in the streamliner era that the kitchen doors are narrow and go down a small ladder.

Now one random exception is the New York Central 48 Seat diners which had a vestibule on the B end with a trap only on one side.

When it comes to dining cars I tend to know a lot because they are my favorite assignment to hold down.
 

the_traveler

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However, that only relates to the first sleeper.

The H-Room and vestibule is next to the dining car, allowing for an easy roll-in. However, there is no easy roll-in from the 2nd or 3rd sleeper.
 

Rasputin

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The placement of the Viewliner Sleepers is always relevant to the nearest food service car. I want to say it might have something to do with ADA. As you know room H is always facing the diner/cafe depending on the train. When the sleeper is on the front of the train the vestibule trails, when the sleeper is on the rear the vestibule leads.
That is not true with the Boston sleeper on the Lake Shore which is usually operated with the vestibule and the bedrooms at the front of the train and the roomettes behind. So the vestibule and bedroom H in that car are immediately behind the locomotives.
 

PVD

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The diner exit situation is covered by the NY sleepers... The Boston sleeper in the front cuts down on through traffic by the Boston coach passengers.....
 

Rasputin

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The diner exit situation is covered by the NY sleepers... The Boston sleeper in the front cuts down on through traffic by the Boston coach passengers.....
And when the Boston sleeper passengers go to the so-called dining car near the rear it enhances the through traffic for both the Boston and New York coach passengers.
 

PVD

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Absolutely, but the expectation of privacy is higher for a sleeper...
 

Rasputin

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In order to run a decent train, the baggage car should be operated at the front of the train right behind the locomotives and the Boston sleeper should be switched to the rear (perhaps the very rear) adjacent to the New York sleepers. I think the Albany switching crew has sufficient time to do this and doing this extra service would help to instill pride in their work. It would hardly be a budget-buster since the switching crew is on duty anyway.

Until then, 448 and 449 will remain the Sad Sack of Amtrak trains.
 

the_traveler

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In order to do that at ALB, you could not combine the trains until AFTER it leaves the platform, because of the location of the switches. Also, you have a problem with the locomotives.

The P-42s go from ALB-BOS and ALB-CHI while P-32 ac/dc are used ALB-NYP.
 

Rasputin

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In order to do that at ALB, you could not combine the trains until AFTER it leaves the platform, because of the location of the switches. Also, you have a problem with the locomotives.

The P-42s go from ALB-BOS and ALB-CHI while P-32 ac/dc are used ALB-NYP.
The Boston section of the Lake Shore is such a loser. Thanks to the pandemic I can avoid riding it this year.
 
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