Preliminary Trip Plans

[SLY]

Following the great (quick) trip I took last year from Parkesburg to New York, I've been excited about saving up for a much longer trip and I know everyone here has been extremely helpful in the past. (Thanks Alan!)

I was just reading the threads about the showers and they answered a bunch of my questions! However, I always have more.

Anyway, here's the plan:

Leave PHL on a Thursday on the 19 Crescent to arrive in NOL Friday.

Doing some driving from this point on after an overnight stay in NOL.

I will pick the train back up in either Kansas City or St. Louis, depending on ease. I might need suggestions here. I have about 6 days worth of traveling by car and visiting family to do. I need to return home by the next Monday. I had planned everything for coming back on the 4 Southwest Chief from KCY (7:45AM) to CHI (3:20PM), then connecting after the brief layover on the 30 Capital Limited (7:05PM) to PGH (5:30AM). Finally back onto the 42 Pennsylvanian (7:20AM) to Philly. The only problem is that the Pennsylvanian doesn't run until 1:20PM on Sundays.

Now, here are my options:

- Do the layover from 5:30am till 1:20PM in PGH. What is there to do at that time of day??? I don't want to be dragging my 10 day luggage around much.

- Cut a day from the trip and come home Saturday. (Seems more viable now, unless someone has better plans in PGH)

Are there any normal delays on any of these routes that I'm not aware of that would cause me to miss connections?

Thanks guys!

 

[SLY]

Alan...anyone?

 

[PRR 60]

My suggestion with the Pittsburgh connection is don't do it. Stay on the Capitol Limited to DC and then connect to a corridor train back to Philadelphia. As you probably suspect, there is not much to do on an early Sunday morning in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is a great city, but like most cities, early Sunday is quiet. Most downtown attractions would not even open until about 10am or later, so it would be a long wait in a pretty spartan station. Of course the Capitol will probably be late, but four hours late would still leave you with a lot of time to kill. So, just stay on the Capitol, enjoy the ride to DC in arguably much nicer equipment than the Pennsy, and relax. There is enough corridor service that a late arrival in DC will not jeopardize your trip to Philadelphia.

As for Kansas City verses St. Louis: it is a close call. KC would give you a ride on the Chief, a pretty good performer for on-time service, and a longer train ride that might appeal to the rail fan side of you. STL would give you more options to Chicago although one, the Texas Eagle, is not a stellar performer. It is also a shorter trip, which might appeal to the get-there side of you. Neither option stands out as preferable, so it more depends on where you want to go on your drive north from New Orleans and how that works with KC and STL.

 

[Sam Damon]

Now, here are my options:
- Do the layover from 5:30am till 1:20PM in PGH. What is there to do at that time of day??? I don't want to be dragging my 10 day luggage around much.

- Cut a day from the trip and come home Saturday. (Seems more viable now, unless someone has better plans in PGH)

Are there any normal delays on any of these routes that I'm not aware of that would cause me to miss connections?

Thanks guys!

On Sundays, PRR 60's right; there's not a great deal to do in Pittsburgh at the time #30 arrives, even when it's late. I can think of no public transit rides to send you on. Heck, even the Strip District is closed.

Prioritizing your options then becomes an exercise in determining how long you want to stay on the train. Riding #30 all the way into Washington, DC, certainly is a pleasant ride on Superliner cars. If you simply want to come back home on Sunday, that's the way to do it. Ride #30 into Washington, ride up to Philadelphia, and then Keystone service to Parkesburg. This method also scores you an extra hundred AGR points for the separate train segment from Philly to Parkesburg.

OTOH, if you don't want to come home on Sunday, then feel free to jump off #30 in Pittsburgh, and connect to #42. It's been a while since I've been able to perform a proper recce near the Pittsburgh Amtrak station, so I really don't feel confident about recommending breakfast alternatives to #42's Amcafe. "What to do when connecting in Pittsburgh" is on my personal to-do list, but right now I'm distracting myself from the eyeballfull of script I'm supposed to be working on. Let us know how your trip works out!

 

[SLY]

In my procrastination, I tried to book my trip tonight and had originally saved my itinerary with a bedroom booking.

Of course, since last night there are no bedrooms available so it looks as if I'll have to book a Roomette from PHL to NOL. I hope it's not terribly uncomfortable in comparison.

I do know I can be placed on a waiting list for a bedroom with the cost difference of the upgrade from roomette to bedroom. Any idea what my changes for one to become availabe would be?

 

[SLY]

Now I'm trying to un-procrastinate and I'm getting an error message:

PROBLEM WITH YOUR ITINERARY - PLEASE CONSIDER THE ALTERNATIVE BELOW: You cannot book this itinerary because: (1) you have selected a passenger discount that requires that you make reservations at least three days before travel; or (2) you have selected a passenger discount not valid on Acela Express; or (3) at least one segment of your itinerary has sold out. To change your itinerary, click the 'Modify Selection' button to select another train.

[Error ID: 546S]

Everything shows up as available - any help here?

 

[AlanB]

Well dates are you trying to book?

That message is usually seen if you are trying to use a discount code, AAA, or other discount and you are trying to book a trip less than 3 days away.

It can also pop up if you are trying to combine a discount code with say a AAA discount. Or if you are trying to use a code that for example is vailid only on the Crescent, but you've also booked a leg on the City of New Orleans.

 

[SLY]

Alan,

I wish I knew - lol. Everything says available and I'm not violating any of the conflicts. It is allowing me to continue to book though, I guess I'll just go through with it.

 

[SLY]

ALL BOOKED!

Now comes the wait.

PHL->NOL (Crescent)

STL->CHI (Texas Eagle)

CHI->WAS (Capitol)

WAS->PHL (Acela)

Should get alot of different experiences on this one! Viewliner Roomette, Superliner Roomette, Superliner Bedroom, and Acela First Class (mainly for use of Club in DC)

I was given Roomette 003 on the Viewliner, Roomette 019 (where is this?) on the Superliner, and Bedroom C on the Superliner. How do these rooms look? I read about the A Bedroom being a tad smaller.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[AlanB]

Should get alot of different experiences on this one! Viewliner Roomette, Superliner Roomette, Superliner Bedroom, and Acela First Class (mainly for use of Club in DC)

I'll say, you've pretty much covered all the bases with that selection.

Now regarding the Acela coming home, while Acela is always a nice ride in FC IMHO, I do have to question that decision a bit. First, since you're arriving via FC on the Capitol Limited, you are already entitled to use the Club Acela Lounge. Second, you paid full price to ride Acela, whereas a connecting ticket on a Regional would have been heavily discounted since you're connecting to another Amtrak train.

Finally, and perhaps most important, the burden is now on you to rebook your train if the Capitol arrives too late to make your connection. This is very important since you are booked into First Class. You must call Amtrak at least 1 hour before departure to cancel and rebook if it looks like you won't make your connection in DC. If you don't call Amtrak, you will loose the monies paid for the FC seat. The rail fare or business class portion you can still get refunded and applied to another train, but again if you don't call Amtrak more than 1 hour prior to the departure of the Acela train, you will loose the money paid for the upgrade to FC.

I was given Roomette 003 on the Viewliner, Roomette 019 (where is this?) on the Superliner, and Bedroom C on the Superliner. How do these rooms look? I read about the A Bedroom being a tad smaller.

If you head over here to Amtrak's site, you can get some ideas of how the various rooms look, by clicking on the appropriate links.

Oh, and roomette #19 is in the Transistion Dorm car. This car is setup so that half the car is where the crew sleeps, the other half is for passengers. The roomette however will be the same size as the one in the normal sleeping car.

 

[Sam Damon]

Finally, and perhaps most important, the burden is now on you to rebook your train if the Capitol arrives too late to make your connection. This is very important since you are booked into First Class. You must call Amtrak at least 1 hour before departure to cancel and rebook if it looks like you won't make your connection in DC. If you don't call Amtrak, you will loose the monies paid for the FC seat. The rail fare or business class portion you can still get refunded and applied to another train, but again if you don't call Amtrak more than 1 hour prior to the departure of the Acela train, you will loose the money paid for the upgrade to FC.

You'd think Amtrak's left hand would know what the right's doing. To me, this is just even more evidence of how screwed up some of Amtrak's policies are -- you'd think this sort of information would show up somewhere, somehow at Washington Union Station without having to call Amtrak reservations yourself.

It is what it is, though. The more paranoid LD supporters would suggest this is just another way how Amtrak is out to screw the LD rider.

 

[AlanB]

Finally, and perhaps most important, the burden is now on you to rebook your train if the Capitol arrives too late to make your connection. This is very important since you are booked into First Class. You must call Amtrak at least 1 hour before departure to cancel and rebook if it looks like you won't make your connection in DC. If you don't call Amtrak, you will loose the monies paid for the FC seat. The rail fare or business class portion you can still get refunded and applied to another train, but again if you don't call Amtrak more than 1 hour prior to the departure of the Acela train, you will loose the money paid for the upgrade to FC.

You'd think Amtrak's left hand would know what the right's doing. To me, this is just even more evidence of how screwed up some of Amtrak's policies are -- you'd think this sort of information would show up somewhere, somehow at Washington Union Station without having to call Amtrak reservations yourself.

It is what it is, though. The more paranoid LD supporters would suggest this is just another way how Amtrak is out to screw the LD rider.

Well since Amtrak isn't expecting anyone to connect from the Capitol to an Acela, after all it is not the recommended connection, it probably doesn't pay to make a software change to catch the few people who go off on their own and do something different. And the one hour rule applies to anyone riding in first class, regardless of how they are getting to the train station. If he was riding in BC, then there would be no problem.

Next, if he booked the Acela in the same reservation as the Capitol, then that might help things a bit. But if he booked two seperate reservations, then I'm not sure that Arrow is actually sophisticated enough to realize that a passenger with two different reservation numbers is actually trying to connect between the two trains. In fact, I'm not sure that any computer system could be relied upon to figure that out. Heck even at a hotel if one uses points for one night and pays for the second, it's usually necessary to call them in advance or at least request upon checkin for the first night, that they assign you the same room for the second night, as it is two different reservations. If you fail to do that, you'll probably find yourself having to change rooms when you go down to checkin for the second paid night.

Third, Amtrak is really marketing Acela for the business market, not the long distance market. So they aren't going to hold the train for connecting pax, like they might for a regional train. And since it is their premium product they want the full $$$ for each seat, hence the reason that they don't discount that train for a connecting pax. And since most people like the deep discount offered by Amtrak to connect to the regional, this is not a common problem.

 

[Sam Damon]

Third, Amtrak is really marketing Acela for the business market, not the long distance market. So they aren't going to hold the train for connecting pax, like they might for a regional train. And since it is their premium product they want the full $$$ for each seat, hence the reason that they don't discount that train for a connecting pax. And since most people like the deep discount offered by Amtrak to connect to the regional, this is not a common problem.

Alan,

I really do respect your position here. I understand and appreciate what you're saying. Even so, I think that in saying all this you've unwittingly opened up the debate over whether we have two Amtraks -- the NEC Amtrak, and the Amtrak For the Rest of Us.

IMO, if a LD rider wants to connect to Acela -- and shell out the money -- why should Amtrak make this difficult? Why not put Acela as one of the travel options on a LD itinerary? Amtrak's failure to do this only illustrates a business lesson my father taught me as a kid: sell the customer what they want. If people want Acela, sell them Acela. Don't hassle them.

Having said that, I would think that Amtrak could program ARROW to kick out an Acela option that takes into account LD tardiness. Furthermore, Amtrak already has policies in place to waive FC accommodation charges when a train is late. The only new wrinkle I'm suggesting here is to make the process automatic when connecting to Acela from a LD train. This type of information probably already shows up on a train manifest! Have Amtrak's right hand know what the left's doing. To me, this stuff seems obvious. I wonder how many people from 60 Mass read this forum?

Anyway, Alan, I do think you make a nice case for explaining what it is how it is in this situation. All I'm saying is, is that IMO there should be a better way in the future.

EDIT: I stand corrected; here's PRR 60's comments on how the FC accomodation charge waiver works, from another thread:

One exception to that rule is for late trains. If the train left your departure station more than two hours late, then you can get a refund of the accommodation charge even if the reservation is cancelled at the last minute.

Even so, I think ARROW should show some connections for Acela for LD riders, and have a waiver on the FC charges if say #30, was wretchedly late.

 

[AlanB]

Third, Amtrak is really marketing Acela for the business market, not the long distance market. So they aren't going to hold the train for connecting pax, like they might for a regional train. And since it is their premium product they want the full $$$ for each seat, hence the reason that they don't discount that train for a connecting pax. And since most people like the deep discount offered by Amtrak to connect to the regional, this is not a common problem.

Alan,

I really do respect your position here. I understand and appreciate what you're saying. Even so, I think that in saying all this you've unwittingly opened up the debate over whether we have two Amtraks -- the NEC Amtrak, and the Amtrak For the Rest of Us.

Hardly Sam, Amtrak coordinates things for regional trains and even discounts them for the LD traveler. Last I looked, Regional trains are part of the NEC. I'm saying that Amtrak isn't marketing Acela to the casual, long distance traveler, who is typically more concerned with price. For a company that is constantly berated, ordered, and criticized for not making money at an endevor that one can't make money doing, Amtrak has to do it's best to maximize revenue. Sadly that means filling up an Acela with the business traveler who will ride many times in a year and not the casual LD traveler who might not be back for another year.

IMO, if a LD rider wants to connect to Acela -- and shell out the money -- why should Amtrak make this difficult? Why not put Acela as one of the travel options on a LD itinerary? Amtrak's failure to do this only illustrates a business lesson my father taught me as a kid: sell the customer what they want. If people want Acela, sell them Acela. Don't hassle them.

Actually, it's not very difficult at all for an LD rider to make a connection to Acela. One can either use the "multi-city" function to do so, or make two seperate reservations to accomplish the task. And as long as one is only booking business class, there are no major issues or problems associated with doing so, although as I mentioned, they don't get the discount. The problem that is occuring here, is due to the fact that the OP picked first class, which has cancellation penalties above and beyond a normal ticket.

Having said that, I would think that Amtrak could program ARROW to kick out an Acela option that takes into account LD tardiness. Furthermore, Amtrak already has policies in place to waive FC accommodation charges when a train is late. The only new wrinkle I'm suggesting here is to make the process automatic when connecting to Acela from a LD train. This type of information probably already shows up on a train manifest! Have Amtrak's right hand know what the left's doing. To me, this stuff seems obvious. I wonder how many people from 60 Mass read this forum?

First, as noted above, if the passenger books things on one reservation, then sure it would be possible to have ARROW deal with things, and potentially cancel automatically a reservation for a first class seat. But if one takes the two seperate reservations road, then you're really asking for too much, I'm sorry. However, since Amtrak is already providing a guaranteed connection, coupled with fact that I'm not sure how many people might actually avail themselves of an Acela connection, I personally can't fault them here. It simply may not be worth the extra expense.

And then one has to factor into the equation here that there is a meal being placed upon that Acela in anticipation of said passenger arriving. A meal that may go to waste if he's no show. A meal that Amtrak will still have to pay for.

As for the cancellation thing, as you see, that only applies to a train that already is running late. So unless the Acela was late out of DC due to equipment problems, one can't use that clause to get out of loosing one's money for the first class seat. The fact that the Capitol is late, has no bearing.

 

[SLY]

Capitol arrives in DC supposedly at 1:30PM

Acela leaves DC at 4PM

You're saying if I'm that late, I should call ahead before arriving?

 

[AlanB]

Capitol arrives in DC supposedly at 1:30PM
Acela leaves DC at 4PM

You're saying if I'm that late, I should call ahead before arriving?

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying, unfortunately. Not withstanding our little discussion that hijacked your topic, since you are in first class on Acela, you must be very careful and monitor your train's progress to DC. If it appears that you are going to be more than 2 hours and 15 minutes late, then you must either call Amtrak on your cell phone to cancel and rebook a later Acela or see if you can get the conductor to do it for you. A good benchmark would be to say that if you haven't reached the Harpers Ferry stop by 2:30 PM, then I would probably call to make other arrangements.

Again you may wish to try to further consult on this point with the conductor, since they may know about futher problems ahead. Because even if you are only late by an hour or so at Harpers Ferry occasionally things can go wrong between there and DC. He/she would also know if CSX has issued heat restriction orders on the day that you are traveling, since that forces the train to run slower than normal and increases the normal amount of time needed to go between Harpers and DC.

In the past 3 weeks, looking quickly, I count 4 times where you would have missed the 4:00 PM train, and 2 nail bitters where you would have made the connection, but boy would it have been close.

If you have to rebook, you must call before 3:00 PM or risk loosing your accomodation charge, the First Class fare. The Business class or railfare charge you'll still get no matter what. And of course don't wait for exactly 3:00 PM either, as you might not have cell phone service at that moment.

And one other problem here is that you could see a price jump if it is necessary to rebook. I would hope that the agent might override the computer since you are late because of Amtrak, but I'm not sure if they can or will.

 

[PRR 60]

Capitol arrives in DC supposedly at 1:30PM
Acela leaves DC at 4PM

You're saying if I'm that late, I should call ahead before arriving?

Do you have a single reservation number that covers both the Capitol Limited and the Acela? If not, and it appears obvious that you are going to miss your Acela, then you definitely should call at least an hour ahead of your scheduled Acela departure and rebook a later trip. Be prepared, however, to pay more for the Acela since your new booking will be priced into the last-minute fare levels.

If both trips are on the same reservation number (called a PNR in travel-geek circles), then you probably do not have to call. If you do call, be sure to emphasize that you need a re-booking due to a late inbound Amtrak train. You could also talk with the conductor on the Capitol to see what he or she recommends. Regardless, if you do miss the Acela, you will have to go to the Acela ticket counter at WAS (or to the desk in the Club Acela lounge) and get later Acela tickets. You should not have to pay any additional fares since the misconnect was on Amtrak. Have a printed copy of your entire Amtrak reservation record in-hand in case you get any grief from the clerks - and you might.

You must not be the very first person who has booked a connection from an LD service to Acela First Class, and misconnects LD to Acela FC must have happened before. Hopefully things will go smoother than Alan and I fear they might.

 

[SLY]

If this is my biggest issue on a 12 day trip, I'll be ok! It's only the DC to PHL portion so I'm almost home by then.

Everything was booked as a multi-city trip on 1 reservation.

Thanks for the info. I tried very hard to do my research before purchasing but I guess I overlooked one thing.

 

[PRR 60]

If this is my biggest issue on a 12 day trip, I'll be ok! It's only the DC to PHL portion so I'm almost home by then.
Everything was booked as a multi-city trip on 1 reservation.

Thanks for the info. I tried very hard to do my research before purchasing but I guess I overlooked one thing.

With one reservation number (PNR), I think you are fine.

With everything on one PNR, all the connections were constructed with at least the minimum permissible connection times and all the individual bookings are linked. The multi-city reservation function will not permit sub-standard connection. Since it is a legal conenction, if a late Capitol Limited causes you to miss the 4pm Acela, you should not be penalized financially. This is no different than connection from the Capitol to Sleeper on a Silver Service Florida train. A misconnect at WAS to Acela FC should be rebooked at no charge for either the missed accommodation or any fare increase for the rebooking.

 

[AlanB]

If this is my biggest issue on a 12 day trip, I'll be ok! It's only the DC to PHL portion so I'm almost home by then.

Everything was booked as a multi-city trip on 1 reservation.

Thanks for the info. I tried very hard to do my research before purchasing but I guess I overlooked one thing.

With one reservation number (PNR), I think you are fine.

With everything on one PNR, all the connections were constructed with at least the minimum permissible connection times and all the individual bookings are linked. The multi-city reservation function will not permit sub-standard connection. Since it is a legal conenction, if a late Capitol Limited causes you to miss the 4pm Acela, you should not be penalized financially. This is no different than connection from the Capitol to Sleeper on a Silver Service Florida train. A misconnect at WAS to Acela FC should be rebooked at no charge for either the missed accommodation or any fare increase for the rebooking.

Bill,

While I'll admit that it's been a few years since I last even bothered to try, I was told a few times in the past that if I tried to connect to an Acela with a first class seat from either a LD, or even a regional out of Richmond, that it was my problem to deal with if the trains mis-connected. As I indicated above, I'm not sure about the repricing issue and I agree that one should not be penalized for a mis-connect, but again I was warned that if I failed to cancel within the one hour limit, that I would indeed loose the accomodation charge.

 

[Sam Damon]

Capitol arrives in DC supposedly at 1:30PM
Acela leaves DC at 4PM

You're saying if I'm that late, I should call ahead before arriving?

SLY,

On my last trip on #30 in May of this year, we arrived at Washington Union Station at 3:55p. Only way you could have made the connection to a 4:00p Acela would have been if you were a track sprinter star with no luggage, while waving your ticket at the gate (another thing about Amtrak I dislike, but I've hijacked this discussion enough already). Anyone else probably would have had a missed connection.

While NS and CSX have been doing what I would describe as an okay job keeping #30 moving, as Alan said, keep an eye on when you hit Harper's Ferry. If the conductor permits you, you may even be able to landline Amtrak from the Harper's Ferry station platform; there's a pay phone there.

Have a good trip, and be sure to tell us how things went in the trip report forum. I'm behind a little on my travel reports only because of a pile of script I had to crank out.

 

[PRR 60]

Bill,
While I'll admit that it's been a few years since I last even bothered to try, I was told a few times in the past that if I tried to connect to an Acela with a first class seat from either a LD, or even a regional out of Richmond, that it was my problem to deal with if the trains mis-connected. As I indicated above, I'm not sure about the repricing issue and I agree that one should not be penalized for a mis-connect, but again I was warned that if I failed to cancel within the one hour limit, that I would indeed loose the accommodation charge.

Alan: you know, I made a fatal error. I forgot to slap myself and say, "THIS IS AMTRAK", before formulating a response. If we were dealing with any other transportation provider, I would be firm in my conviction that I am right and a booked connection is a legit connection and will be honored for a misconnect. But Amtrak exists in its own little bizarro world with its own goofy rules (most of which the public cannot even see), so you may just be right.

But you have to admit, it would take some major guts (there is a better word) for Amtrak to dock a passenger the Acela FC accommodation charge because he or she was delayed..... BY AMTRAK. If that is the case, then there should be a warning prior to adding the upgrade to the multi-city reservation. That would make..... SENSE. But, I'll slap myself one more time: "THIS IS AMTRAK", so anything goes.

I'll defer to your knowledge of the idiot-cyncracies (spelling intentional) of Amtrak, and suggest the OP call Amtrak reservations to see if they know the current deal with LD to Acela FC conenctions. If it is true that the FC charge is at risk if the LD is late, then I would cancel the FC upgrade and rough it in Acela Coa..., er, I mean Business Class. You can always upgrade at WAS if there is room in First, (slap!) unless of course, Amtrak re-buckets the Coach fare for the gate upgrade.

 

[AlanB]

If it is true that the FC charge is at risk if the LD is late, then I would cancel the FC upgrade and rough it in Acela Coa..., er, I mean Business Class. You can always upgrade at WAS if there is room in First, (slap!) unless of course, Amtrak re-buckets the Coach fare for the gate upgrade.

I believe that Amtrak has by and large fixed that problem, although if you hit a newbie agent you might have a problem, but most know that they are not to reprice the BC fare when doing any type of upgrade, be it paid or free because of an AGR coupon.

 

[SLY]

Question:

How many stops on the Crescent are "longer" which could be used to stretch or get fresh air (or smoke, whatever)? Will I be able to get off at some stops and just stand by the door if I wish to? Or only at those longer stops? This is my longest portion of travel so I'm curious how many times I can get some air.

 

[had8ley]

In my procrastination, I tried to book my trip tonight and had originally saved my itinerary with a bedroom booking.
Of course, since last night there are no bedrooms available so it looks as if I'll have to book a Roomette from PHL to NOL. I hope it's not terribly uncomfortable in comparison.

I do know I can be placed on a waiting list for a bedroom with the cost difference of the upgrade from roomette to bedroom. Any idea what my changes for one to become availabe would be?

Yes. Fifteen days out from your trip call and ask if the accessible bedroom is available. Amtrak turns the biggest, and in my book, the best room on the Viewliner loose if no one makes a reservation for it.