Problem with Amtrak

[michael scott woody]

[NOTE: THIS HAS BEEN SPLIT FROM A 5 YEAR OLD THREAD]

hello everyone. so i put my sister on the train from portland oregon to spokane washington. she did not show at the destination station. Our family as a whole tried not to panic, however when we tried to track her down we were told by amtrack employee that no one misses thier stops because tickets are checked and head counts are done at each stop. so where did my sister dissapear too? i saw her get on the train. so now panic ensues the whole fam is scared. i called the police emergeny line to get the # of a human that i can talk to because you cant just do that from the website givin #! when i did get amtrack police they pretty much laughed at me saying they could give me no info about my sister! she by this time was two hours lost! so we wait hopeing for the best and trying to maintain. finally my sis calls from sandpoint idaho and explains that she asked the conductor or whatever their called stewardess? to wake her before spokane, she was told not to worry that she would be woken up. keep in mind this is at night she was supposed to get off the train in spokane shortly after 12 midnight and she had been travelling all day and she was on her period which had wiped her out she needed to rest comfortable and safely. so she put her trust in amtrack and went to sleep. she was not woken up! and so she gets off the train in sand point in the middle of the night! not cool! in the hustle to get her off the train her computer bag with computer and other personal belongings was left on the train! she tried to go back and retrieve it but was denied entry and no one went to retrieve her belongings! ***! seriously! so her dad has to drive 2 hours to come pick her up! they didnt get home till 5 or 6 in the morning. i have tried to make a complaint with amtrack and keep getting the run around i am seriously considering legal action! so does she get her stuff? will we be reimbursed for travel expenses? will amtrack make good on this or what? i am so dissapointed! my sister did nothing wrong. her lifes work is on that computer. what do we do???? its already been 5 days since this happened! help! thanks for this forum. aloha... michael woody

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think the train attendant may have been alternating sleep with another attendant and the other one missed her seat check so forgot to wake her up. Then the attendant probably came back and woke her up before the next stop, Sandpoint.

You may want to check a lost-and-found for the computer, but I'm not sure where that is. If you're lucky, the computer would have been found by the attendant and taken to Chicago. Maybe they could mail it back if they can confirm it's yours, but you are screwed if someone stole it.

I don't know if you can get a voucher for this because she actually rode past her destination. I've always had problems dealing with Customer Service with any carrier I've used and I generally don't trust them to solve the problem. Just try your best to get a refund or voucher, maybe taking to an agent at Union Station or in Spokane could help.

I personally hate getting up in the middle of the night so I try to find better times when travelling.

 

[Anthony]

You might try calling the station lost and found in Chicago to ask if anything had been turned in from that trip.

I hate to say this, but when people are traveling (no matter the mode or carrier), there is a basic expectation of personal responsibility. If your sister had a disability or other condition that required extra assistance or supervision, then certainly it would be a different story (Amtrak advises the crew of this in advance if notified). But I'm not sure how far you're going to get with your claim, realistically speaking.

 

[HiGracie]

I am so sorry your sister had a hard time. I can certainly even empathize with her period wiping her out as I went through a time where I was getting blood transfusions twice a year because my periods made me so sick. If your sister's life work is on the computer, surely she valued it enough to back it up otherwise you may just have to find some peace in this situation and relax and see how this turns out.

 

[the_traveler]

It is also possible that your sister was not in her seat when the conductor came by to wake her. (Example: She was sitting in the lounge car at the time he/she came by.) That's the reason they announce over the PA during the last announcement of the evening that if you're getting off at (the stops during the night before 7 am when they resume use of the PA) to be sure you're in your seat so you can be awoken and notified of your stop.

I am not disputing what you say happened, but I personally was on #28 out of Portland 5 days ago and heard the announcement I stated above around Pasco. So if she was not in her seat or room when the conductor came around to wake her up, what more could Amtrak do? :blush: I really don't think the other passengers aboard would like it very much if, while they are sleeping, heard a loud announcement over the PA saying "Miss ______, this is your stop"! This is why the PA is not used between 10-11 pm and 7 am. To allow those continuing on to be allowed to sleep. Trust me, I was continuing on to Chicago, and I would not be very understanding if I heard an announcement of that type after midnight!

If your sister had some kind of disability or handicap, was this information given to Amtrak prior to departure so the crew would know?

Sorry if I sound doubting.

 

[June the Coach Rider]

Another question, had she swapped seats and was no longer sitting under her seat tag which designated where she was to get off? I know on the LD trains I was on recently, the conductor walked thru and woke up each passenger for the stops during the night. If it was not the conductor, it was the car attendant. I am sorry this happened to your sister, but I have to agree that some of the responsibility goes to her. Good luck in retrieving her bag. Not sure how she could have gotten off and not taken her computer if her life's work was on it, but things happen sometimes.

 

[Old MM]

Sorry for what happened to your sister Michael. I am not going to preach to you about what she should or should not have done. sometimes stuff just happens. Hope everything worked out in the end.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Considering it's the middle of the night, I don't really find a need to blame the passenger or the crew. Right now the best idea is probably to call Chicago and rest up.

 

[VentureForth]

Dear Guest,

Please understand that we can only offer advise and cannot a) do anything, or b) be expected to do anything except offer advise.

That being said, here are some points that need to be addressed. First and foremost, it is true that it is the responsibility of the passenger to sit where they are assigned. There is a paper tag that is inserted above the seat with the information on where the passenger is supposed to disembark. This is the ONLY way that the crew knows who is going where. Now, if your sister was a sleeping car passenger, it would be a terminable offense for the sleeping car attendant to allow a passenger to sleep through their station. But that is a first class accomodation and service.

I understand that your sister was tired and wiped out. But that train from Portland arrives in Spokane at 12:13 AM and departs at 1:30 AM. That's 77 minutes to realize that you are at the station where you need to get off.

IF your sister was sitting where she was supposed to, and IF the crew missed telling her about that stop (which is highly unlikely that in 77 minutes they haven't walked past a dozen times to double and triple check), then it may be their fault, but still your sister's responsibility.

As for the items that were left on the train, your only hope is to contact Amtrak on their phone number (1-800-USA-RAIL) and ask to speak with an agent and if they are not helpful, ask to speak with a supervisor.

Please understand that you will likely get much further along with the recovery of the computer if you accept responsibility for the sleep through.

 

[PRR 60]

A fundamental task for the train crew on overnight trains is to ensure that passengers who are supposed to get off at a particular stop in fact got off at that stop. While we can all conjure up scenarios where actions by a passenger could make that task more difficult, absent a conscious attempt by a passenger to evade detection (maybe an insatiable desire to see Sand Point?), the crew has to make sure the sleeping passengers are awakened and get off the train. In Amtrak-world, the failure to get passengers off at their stop is called a “carry-by”, and Amtrak management considers a carry-by a pretty serious crew failure.

The fact that the OP’s sister was allowed to sleep through the stop at Spokane means that someone on that train crew did not do their job. It’s as simple as that. There are no excuses.

 

[June the Coach Rider]

A fundamental task for the train crew on overnight trains is to ensure that passengers who are supposed to get off at a particular stop in fact got off at that stop. While we can all conjure up scenarios where actions by a passenger could make that task more difficult, absent a conscious attempt by a passenger to evade detection (maybe an insatiable desire to see Sand Point?), the crew has to make sure the sleeping passengers are awakened and get off the train. In Amtrak-world, the failure to get passengers off at their stop is called a “carry-by”, and Amtrak management considers a carry-by a pretty serious crew failure.
The fact that the OP’s sister was allowed to sleep through the stop at Spokane means that someone on that train crew did not do their job. It’s as simple as that. There are no excuses.

this is completely true, if the passenger was sitting under their seat tag. During the night, I know from experience that people move to different seats to sleep spread out over two seats. When the crew walked thru, they check every tag before a stop and with someone is under the tag, they walk them up, I have seen it both ways, the person had moved and was not under their seat tag. Luckily, the person was able to wake up in time to get off. The crew had checked where the tag was and there was no one there so walked on by. Possibly thought they were in the rest room. If the person was sleeping under their tag that designated Spokane as their station, then the blame would be on the crew.

 

[crescent2]

Back to the OP's question, "What to do?"

I would write to Amtrak regarding the computer, and call again. If the first person you speak with can't help, ask for a supervisor and/or call again. Try not to be too emotional as that is counter-productive to your goal. You might also phone customer relations and complain about the carry-by.

As for the computer, that was of course your sister's responsibility, but hopefully it can be recovered unless it was taken by another passenger. If it was stolen, there's nothing Amtrak can do. She could also complain about the lack of response when she first realized it was still on the train. I can't imagine an attendant who wouldn't go get it for her, but stranger things have happened, I guess.

As for missing the stop, it is also Amtrak's responsibility as well as the passenger's, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to state whose is predominate. I do think Amtrak bears some responsibility as PRR60 stated. There's no way to redo the experience, but she might get some sort of compensation if she complains in the right way to the right person.

Please bear in mind that Amtrak does not see these posts. This is just a forum for people who are interested in Amtrak.

Editing to add: If your sister is an adult, which it seems she is from your post, she will probably have better luck than you in dealing with Amtrak herself. You are just a third party and have no claim.

 

[tomfuller]

June has it right. The Empire Builder Portland branch arrives in Spokane sometime between 12:13 and 12:30AM. There is a bit of shaking and bumping as the join the 2 sections. The joined train does not leave before 1:30AM. It is mostly the passengers duty to get off at the destination station. The train staff has a duty to see that the passengers get onto the platform safely so that is where they usually are rather than seeing if everyone is awake.

 

[Ryan]

A fundamental task for the train crew on overnight trains is to ensure that passengers who are supposed to get off at a particular stop in fact got off at that stop. While we can all conjure up scenarios where actions by a passenger could make that task more difficult, absent a conscious attempt by a passenger to evade detection (maybe an insatiable desire to see Sand Point?), the crew has to make sure the sleeping passengers are awakened and get off the train. In Amtrak-world, the failure to get passengers off at their stop is called a “carry-by”, and Amtrak management considers a carry-by a pretty serious crew failure.

The fact that the OP’s sister was allowed to sleep through the stop at Spokane means that someone on that train crew did not do their job. It’s as simple as that. There are no excuses.

this is completely true, if the passenger was sitting under their seat tag. During the night, I know from experience that people move to different seats to sleep spread out over two seats. When the crew walked thru, they check every tag before a stop and with someone is under the tag, they walk them up, I have seen it both ways, the person had moved and was not under their seat tag. Luckily, the person was able to wake up in time to get off. The crew had checked where the tag was and there was no one there so walked on by. Possibly thought they were in the rest room. If the person was sleeping under their tag that designated Spokane as their station, then the blame would be on the crew.

I agree with June - if the seat is vacant, how is the crew member supposed to know if the person is elsewhere on the train, or has already disembarked?

Unless you're going to mandate that the crew counts heads on the platform to ensure that everyone is off, these things are going to happen from time to time.

Best of luck to our guest, but it's going to be tough to get more than sympathy in the end...

 

[rrdude]

I wonder what the percentage of guests who post a gripe/comment here once, and then NEVER return to even read the replies is?

They can't get the replies via email can they, as they are only a "guest"?

Does IP Board s/w have the option of allowing guests to receive emails on the post that they start, or add to?

 

[SarahZ]

While I sympathize with what happened, I would be horrified if someone mentioned the status of my menstrual cycle on an online forum. That has absolutely no bearing on the situation and really wasn't necessary. :unsure:

She can file a Lost and Found claim for her computer. Even if she was "hustled", she still should have grabbed all of her bags before getting off the train. That was her responsibility, not the crew's.

As for why she was not awakened, I cannot speak to that, as the facts are unclear. Was she in her assigned seat/roomette? Did she set her cell phone alarm as a backup? The car attendants will often wake passengers up before their stop, but if there was a crew change at that point, the message could have been lost and they may have assumed she was off the train already (if not in her assigned seat). I never, ever rely on the car attendants; I always set my cell phone alarm to go off 45 minutes before my stop, just in case I fall asleep. Anyway, if she WAS in her seat and the tag was there, they should have made sure she got off at that stop.

Amtrak probably won't speak to you if your sister is over the age of 18, but she may be able to ask them for some kind of voucher if it was a true carry-by. If she wasn't in her seat, then it's not Amtrak's fault she wasn't awakened.

I really wish the guest OPs would come back and clarify whenever they complain about something.

 

[jebr]

A fundamental task for the train crew on overnight trains is to ensure that passengers who are supposed to get off at a particular stop in fact got off at that stop. While we can all conjure up scenarios where actions by a passenger could make that task more difficult, absent a conscious attempt by a passenger to evade detection (maybe an insatiable desire to see Sand Point?), the crew has to make sure the sleeping passengers are awakened and get off the train. In Amtrak-world, the failure to get passengers off at their stop is called a “carry-by”, and Amtrak management considers a carry-by a pretty serious crew failure.
The fact that the OP’s sister was allowed to sleep through the stop at Spokane means that someone on that train crew did not do their job. It’s as simple as that. There are no excuses.

It's not as simple as that. If the OP's sister was not sitting in her assigned seat (or moved her seat check so that the crew would know she was getting off in Spokane), then the responsibility lies solely on the OP's sister. Of course, if she was in her assigned seat (or moved her seat check accordingly), then it would be on the crew to make sure she is awake for her stop.

I think the OP is leaving out some facts here, though. If she slept completely through Spokane, it seems somewhat unlikely that she would wake up before Sandpoint. Maybe she realized at Sandpoint, but at least in my experience, once the train moves I'm asleep, only waking momentarily at each stop (falling back asleep within a couple minutes.)

 

[SarahZ]

Also, if her "life's work" is on that computer, then I really, really, REALLY hope she made a backup. :unsure:

 

[Ryan]

And not "backed up to an external hard drive" that happens to be in the same bag.

If it's only backed up in the same physical location, it isn't backed up.

 

[tomfuller]

True story about my laptop on the Empire Builder: I had my small Asus in my canvas bag with my clothes and toiletries on the eastbound EB from SPK to CHI. I washed up and changed clothes somewhere before MSP. My laptop did not get put back in the bag.

I did not realize that the laptop was not in the bag until I was in CUS. Shortly after I realized that my laptop was missing I got a call on my cellphone from the conductor that got off in MSP.

He had my laptop which says Tom Fuller's laptop on the screen when it starts.

He packaged it very well and sent it on the next EB with instruction to put it on the CL to Washington. I picked it up about 4 days later in Washington without charge.

There have been several times that Amtrak staff has gone above and beyond to be nice to me.

This was one of them.

 

[BCL]

And not "backed up to an external hard drive" that happens to be in the same bag.
If it's only backed up in the same physical location, it isn't backed up.

That's a useful backup in the case of a hard drive failure, and I've had hard drives fail in spectacular ways. It wouldn't be if a bag was lost or stolen.

There are online services that perform schedule backups to a secured server. Apple has a prominent service out there for use with their operating systems.

 

[amamba]

While I sympathize with what happened, I would be horrified if someone mentioned the status of my menstrual cycle on an online forum. That has absolutely no bearing on the situation and really wasn't necessary. :unsure:

Yeah I was wondering when someone was going to point this out. Seriously?! I am not sure how that has any bearing on the situation at all, and frankly the underlying assumption (that women are somehow impaired when menstruating) is offensive. :unsure: :wacko:

 

[daveyb99]

the post says this is a 5 YEAR OLD story ... who cares at this point. Sorry ....

 

[Ryan]

Oh, I agree that it's convenient to have a local backup as well (I had a hard drive fail in a computer and was able to replace it, restore from Time Machine and be up and running within hours), but if your local backup is your only backup, the data isn't really backed up.

Case in point: I had a flood last fall that killed the two external drives I had attached to my iMac. Fortunately, they only contained backups for every computer in the house, and the iMac (and all of the data stored on it) mercifully survived the experience.

If the iMac had gone down too (which wouldn't have been surprising, as it was plugged into the same power strip the external drives were that was completely submerged in water), I would have lost GB after GB of irreplaceable photos and data if I didn't have an offsite backup.

Fortunately I do (Apple's offerings aren't really enough for me), the data is backed up locally via Time Machine, onto another hard drive located elsewhere in the house via Crashplan, and on Crashplan's servers out on the internet. Should I ever have to restore from them, I can download it all (slow, even over FiOS), or have the data shipped to me on a hard drive.

(Yes, I'm a little obsessive, but I've seen too many people lose irreplaceable data due to improper backups)

 

[Ryan]

the post says this is a 5 YEAR OLD story ... who cares at this point.

No, I think that this is a recent story, that was originally posted to a 5 year old thread and split out.