Proposed Silver Service Schedule

[AlanB]

I'd like to amend my last post: All six trains (89-90, 91-92, 97-98) will serve TRE. I mis-read my advance copy of the new timetable. Sorry.

Not to worry, we all make mistakes. That's why we put erasers on pencils and backspace keys on computer keyboards.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Still a few bugs in the system, though. To check on the system reservation status, I asked for a round trip on Nov 17 WPK-TPA-WPK and got a schizophrenic response. It shows the new 91 leaving WPK at 7:55 a.m. arriving TPA 10:26 a.m.. - so far, so good - HOWEVER - it also shows the CURRENT 91 leaving WPK 11:07 a.m. and delivering me to ORL at 11:42 a.m., followed by BUS 6091 arriving TPA at 2:10 pm. (my choice to decide which 91 I would like, apparently). It also shows the 97 - plus - BUS option to TPA. I didn't try to actually BOOK either 91, so I don't know for sure that it would have allowed both (well, either) to be booked, but one assumes it would if it shows them both as available.

Return, however, only shows the new 92, leaving TPA 5:22 pm, arriving WPK 7:55 p.m., probably because I didn't give it the right time parameters to include a bus return. I hope they are aware of the problem.....

 

[capltd29]

THe star's new schedule will most likely result in many missed connections to and from 29 and 30

 

[battalion51]

The connections to the Capitol Ltd. will most likely become the Meteor's responsibility, rather than the Star as it is now.

 

[OTOWNRAILFAN]

So by this new schedule, Ocala ends up losing their rail service?

Is it really beneficial for Amtrak to have the Star back track between Lakeland to Tampa back to Lakeland and up to Orlando? This adds a bit more time to the schedule.

 

[railman]

So by this new schedule, Ocala ends up losing their rail service?Is it really beneficial for Amtrak to have the Star back track between Lakeland to Tampa back to Lakeland and up to Orlando? This adds a bit more time to the schedule.

Amtrak is attempting to accomplish two things with the Silver Star's new schedule:

- offering upgraded service to/from Tampa (i.e., sleepers, diner, etc.), and

- maintaining the offer of cross-Florida service between Tampa and Miami.

The Star's new schedule does both of these things reasonably well without adding any new routings, frequencies or equipment requirements.

 

[Joe]

It seems to me that the Silver Meteor will leave NYP southbound almost 5 hours earlier than it does now.

I did a roundtrip, NYP to ORL, Dec. 7 to Dec. 14. Amtrak's online reservation system has the Silver Star leaving NYP at 10:01 A.M. (Currently 11:30 A.M.). It has the Silver Meteor departing NYP at 2:15 P.M. (Currently departs NYP at 7:01 P.M.)

Seems the Silver Meteor is leaving NYP 4 hours and 46 minutes earlier.

Joe P.

 

[Guest]

So by this new schedule, Ocala ends up losing their rail service?Is it really beneficial for Amtrak to have the Star back track between Lakeland to Tampa back to Lakeland and up to Orlando? This adds a bit more time to the schedule.

Amtrak is attempting to accomplish two things with the Silver Star's new schedule:

- offering upgraded service to/from Tampa (i.e., sleepers, diner, etc.), and

- maintaining the offer of cross-Florida service between Tampa and Miami.

The Star's new schedule does both of these things reasonably well without adding any new routings, frequencies or equipment requirements.

In other words... "BUS" for Ocala and the other stations on that route.

 

[Anthony]

In other words... "BUS" for Ocala and the other stations on that route.

Surely you mean only the finest "deluxe motorcoach"!

 

[National Limited]

Is anyone else dissipointed about the new schedule for the Meteor? I would think that it would be good for Amtrak to have a train that leaves NYP in the evening as the Meteor does currently. I'm not sure how this effects Miami but it makes sense to have that evening departure. I know that with my previous post on this topic someone responded that the new Meteor schedule allows for a day trip in Florida. Would it not make sense to keep an evening departure of the Meteor since there is an early morning departure of the Palmetto, mid morning departure of the Star then early evening departure of the Meteor? It allows for a day in the city visiting or a day at work. Anyone have an idea why this decision was made?

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I see a problem with 91's schedule. According to what has been posted for 91's schedule, it goes through Lakeland twice (91 and 92 both do this). 91, Southbound, goes through Lakeland the first time as a crew change and the second time as a pax stop. That ain't gonna fly. Pax are not going to put up with sitting on the train through a crew change at their destination station, and then wait roughly two hours, for the next pass at that station, to get off. And it would be pure lunacy to even suggest it to them. I think they will have to allow entraining and detraining both times. It would also be silly to have to tell a potential Lakeland-Tampa pax that they could not buy a ticket for that leg, when the train clearly stops at the station going in that direction. If you stop at the station, use the stop. It may not generate much revenue, but it probably will generate some, and that's what it's all about anyway. As a side benefit, maybe they can get a goodly number of flex-time commuters from the Lakeland area that work in Tampa (or vice-versa) to use 91-92 as a commuter line, assuming it holds schedule reasonably well (the Silvers used to be able to do that pretty well absent some sort of weather or other natural disasters up north, or absent a crossing accident somewhere up North). And of course it would make the schedule and ticketing computer setup a little easier, not having to put in the schedule the station pairs right in the middle of the schedule that cannot be booked, or put into the ticketing computer that it can't sell between these stations but only sometimes. This isn't at the end of a run like West Palm - Mia (Silvers), or Palatka-ORL (Sunset) where they will pickup but not drop off, or drop off but not pick up, depending on which direction they're going.

 

[Amfleet]

It should be that going northbound passengers from the south detrain only during the first stop at Lakeland then second stop is for retreiving passengers going north. Going southbound the first stop at Lakeland would be for passengers detraining from the north and, respectively, the second stop would be to retreive passengers going south. I guess the only time that rule would not in affect is when a passenger wants to travel between just Lakeland and Tampa.

 

[railman]

On the southbound Star (#91) the first Lakeland stop will be designated as discharge-only. The second Lakeland stop will be designated as receive-only for passengers traveling south of LAK. The reverse is true for northbound train #92. You will not be able to get a local ticket from Lakeland to/from any Tampa Bay stops on the Star.

 

[Trogdor]

If there were no boarding/detraining restrictions at Lakeland and someone was bored, they could hop on the train in Lakeland, and come right back.

 

[AlanB]

In other words... "BUS" for Ocala and the other stations on that route.

Surely you mean only the finest "deluxe motorcoach"!

Odds are that the bus will only last for 6 months, the required period that Amtrak must provide for notification of the removal of service.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I hope Amtrak does allow Lakeland-Tampa and Tampa-Lakeland pax. I wouldn't be doing that particular city pair myself, but I would not be surprised to have some part-time commuters that would be very interested in it, and why deliberately deny yourself the revenue? At the very least, allow Florida Railpass holders to use that leg, since that's just a show up, flash the pass and I.D. and board, with less paperwork for the conductor. All the pax has to do paperwork-wise is fill out and hand the conductor a NRPC 3085 Passenger Onboard Record form. We got a couple of pads of those from conductors while we had the railpass so we could have them filled out in advance for the conductors.

Re the S-Line stations that will be dropped, I simply don't know what the ridership is there. We've never ridden the Bug because it goes through there so late at night (we considered doing a round-robin using Silver-Palmetto - Palmetto -Silver, beginning and ending at WPK, on the FL Railpass, but never quite got around to it).... The Waldo station stop services Gainesville, including the University of Florida, which is a huge campus, with over 46,000 students (I'm a grad). Ocala, located in Marion County, (County pop. about 100,000) has a population about equal to the number of students at U.F. , and should also be a worthwhile "luxury motorcoach" connection. I know that just about every time we've been on a Silver Service train and went through Deland, we had Stetson students either entraining or detraining at that stop, and I'm sure the same is true at Waldo for U.F. students.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Back in the days of daylight service on the S-line, the ridership on that line was actually very good if not excellent, especially at the OCA and WDO stops! At WDO during the school session at UF, it was not uncommon to load up to thirty or fourty people at that stop. Northbound business wasn't bad either. At OCA, in the days of daylight service, it wasn't uncommon to load fourty or fifty people at times, but at least fifteen or twenty people were average and a little heavier for Northbound travel as I can remember. I have loaded up to 100 people (not in a group, that is separate parties),however, at OCA before around holiday times. But after daylight service ended on the S-line, whenever I worked that line, the holiday season was OK, but I pretty much loaded a few here and a few there, and at times we would simply stop and go at WWD and DDE. Daylight service would restore that line, but I don't forsee Amtrak operating a train over there anytime soon, and a "motorcoach" (I'll call it as it is....a "bus"), I don't see as a viable answer to that problem. On another note, hopefully Amtrak will at least leave some sort of connections to the rails for OCA and WDO! Ocala put a good deal of money into upgrading and renovating their station for Amtrak and Greyhound (by relocating them into OCA Union Station). And now after November 1, no train at the station anymore!!!

I am happy with the new arrangement for the A-line and direct TPA service via ORL, but OCA and WDO, as well as WWD and DDE lost out in the deal. I understand managment has made the best decision that they can go with at this time. I don't completely agree with the entire decision in regard to some of the details of this situation, however, I truely believe managment has done the best they can for what they have to work with at the present. I hope to see the S-line restored sometime in the future, but I, for some reason, don't see that happening (at least anytime soon). I hope to be proved wrong, and see the S-line in operation with passenger service again.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

On another note, hopefully Amtrak will at least leave some sort of connections to the rails for OCA and WDO!

It is amazing how one "little" word combined with the postion of a couple more can change everything in a sentence from what one actually means! I have omitted the word "always" in this little sentence!

It should read:

On another note, hopefully Amtrak will always leave at least some sort of connections to the rails for OCA and WDO!

ooooppppps :lol:

 

[railman]

Let us not forget that CSX wants to abandoned the OCA line - or at least downgrade it from passenger train standards. I can't help but think that was a factor in the decision-making process between Amtrak and CSX.

Also, while it's ONLY a bus, the times at WDO and OCA will be substantially better than what the Palmetto offered when it went through there. At least it will be daylight.

One other plus (in my book, anyway) is that Gainesville itself is added to the network with a Thruway stop of its very own, so those college students shouldn't have to get to/from the WDO stop.

 

[engine999]

Let us not forget that CSX wants to abandoned the OCA line - or at least downgrade it from passenger train standards. I can't help but think that was a factor in the decision-making process between Amtrak and CSX.
Also, while it's ONLY a bus, the times at WDO and OCA will be substantially better than what the Palmetto offered when it went through there. At least it will be daylight.

One other plus (in my book, anyway) is that Gainesville itself is added to the network with a Thruway stop of its very own, so those college students shouldn't have to get to/from the WDO stop.

I thought the ocala line was the major csx artery for Fl, serving the tampa area.

 

[battalion51]

Let us not forget that CSX wants to abandoned the OCA line - or at least downgrade it from passenger train standards. I can't help but think that was a factor in the decision-making process between Amtrak and CSX.

CSX still very much so wants the S-Line. It's the major artery for them between JAX and TPA. The S-Line is much faster to run than the A-Line is, and also doesn't pass through a major urban area. They do want to rid themselves of having to maintain the line to passenger standards, but they will still run hot Intermodal and Auto Rack trains down that line (and also the Juice Train). The line will probably still see passenger service every once in a while when the A-Line is out of service due to accident or upgrades.

 

[Superliner Diner]

I recall riding the "S" line down in Florida when it was the Miami section of the Silver Star making the run by day (the Tampa section went via Orlando). Back then there was no Dade City/Zephyrhills stop because they used a different route, a line that CSX has now downgraded. They came into Auburndale Junction directly from the north and just continued south towards Miami.

Anyhow, the station stop at Wildwood was probably a crew change point, because I can remember the crew telling passengers that they could get off the train at Wildwood for a while. There were several vendors selling oranges and grapefruits, and they did good business with the northern passengers because one can smell them in the air on any given sunny day in Florida.

Later when they rerouted the "S" line via Dade City/Zephyrhills, and down to Lakeland, they hung a left at Lakeland (instead of the current Palmetto turning right to Tampa) and ran to Auburndale, then went south towards Miami. At some point between Lakeland and Auburndale, if the timing was just right, the train would actually meet itself! The southbound Miami section would encounted the southbound Tampa section (although they were going east-west at that point).

 

[Superliner Diner]

I'd also like to add my name to the list of people upset with the new Silver Meteor schedule. :angry: That evening southbound departure from the Northeast was perfect, as we could leave for Florida on a weekday after my son got home from school. Now, we'll have to take the Star the next morning. The only silver lining is that my parents no longer will have to drive to Winter Haven to pick us up, we can come right into Tampa on the Star.

OK they had to cut the Palmetto back to Savannah, but did they have to fiddle with the other two trains? While the Silver Star does have to do that dogleg between Auburndale and Tampa, that should not affect calling times 22 hours away on the other end of the line. And it should not affect the Meteor, which won't be having any route changes.

 

[National Limited]

I am so glad to hear that someone else dosen't like the new NYP departure time of the Meteor. I was beginning to think that I was the only person who didn't like it. It would make sense to have the departure in early evening--say 7:01 p.m.--to let people have the day in the city. I wonder why they decided against the evening departure?

 

[Superliner Diner]

7:01 PM was probably the absolute earliest New York departure they could have had at that time of the evening. It's a minute after the rush hour ends. So along comes Amtrak wishing to move the departure time earlier, and they had to go all the way to mid-afternoon to avoid conflicts with rush hour trains. One hunch is that with the northbound Silver Star operating later (it used to come in before the evening rush, now it will arrive NYP after the evening rush) there had to be a tradeoff so as to maintain a certain number of slots in the station.

With the current arrival time of about 3:30 PM for the Star into NYP, one has to wonder what they did if the train was, say, 90 minutes late (not at all out of the question). Did they hold the train somewhere on the Corridor (to avoid the rush hour) until it could enter Penn Station at 7:01 PM?

And remember a couple of years ago they moved the westbound departure of the Lake Shore Limited out of New York from roughly 4:40 PM to 2:20 PM, a move that meant people would have to leave work early or otherwise cut their business days short to make that train. I would venture to say that ridership has not recovered from that move.