Rail in the Keys?

[neroden]

Operations planning would be a bit bizarre, because demand would be *entirely* from tourists. It might call for entirely different schedules than a normal train line, along with outright cancellations during periods of low tourism.

 

[BCL]

Thanks to all those who have put forward their well informed views. I'm sure there are crazier and remoter places on the planet that have rail connections so in principle I can see this working. But what is rerally needed before this can go any further is a solid business case. What's it going to cost? What are the expected revenues? Where is the difference going to come from?

We have seen some projects making real progress recently that maybe 10 years ago we would have scoffed as fantasist dreaming. AAF, Texas High Speed rail, X-train, High Speed in California. So I don't like to bounce the word impossible.

It would require a solid business and/or public interest case. And the amount of building (over water) that would be required as well as establishing right of way on limited land would cost way too much given how many would be served.

Of course we can see lots of similar projects that were essential vanity projects built by entities flush with cash or easy borrowing. I'd say that the projects you state have more of a public interest case going for them.

 

[neroden]

As I say, the benefit here is mainly to the tourism bureau of the Keys. If they want to fund most of it, bully for them! I can't see moving tourists to the Keys as a national priority, however.

 

[trainviews]

As I say, the benefit here is mainly to the tourism bureau of the Keys. If they want to fund most of it, bully for them! I can't see moving tourists to the Keys as a national priority, however.

And Amtrak is only for land cruise passengers...

Honestly if there's a transportation need to the Keys and rail is a feasible solution I think the distinction between different classes of passengers is false. Tourists are as stuck in traffic no less than businessmen or students on their way home from college, and their mobility generate economic activity just like commuters or business traffic.

Now, whether the enormous investment a rail line to the Keys would be is warranted or not? I highly doubt that, but that has in my opinion nothing to do with whether the audience is the "wrong" kind of travellers or not.

Edit: Typo

 

[BCL]

As I say, the benefit here is mainly to the tourism bureau of the Keys. If they want to fund most of it, bully for them! I can't see moving tourists to the Keys as a national priority, however.

And Amtrak is only for land cruise passengers...

Honestly if there's a transportation need to the Keys and rail is a feasible solution I think the distinction between different classes of passengers is false. Tourists are as stuck in traffic no less than businessmen or students on their way home from college, and their mobility generate economic activity just like commuters or business traffic.

Now, whether the enormous investment a rail line to the Keys would be is warranted or not? I highly doubt that, but not that has in my opinion nothing to do with whether the audience is the "wrong" kind of travellers or not.

I suppose the answer is a matter of what the goal is. As stated earlier, the original rail line down the Keys was meant to supply coal for ship refueling. The road is already there and of course it serves both civilians and military needs.

Certainly there's a rational basis for an overland light rail line in a highly populated area. It's a different matter when it's a relatively low number of tourists and locals where it would require new bridges and likely condemnation of expensive and limited land. There's also a question of whether or not tourists would use it as opposed to perhaps bus shuttles.

I guess sometimes there's spending because money is available for a specific purpose. Maybe they can get funding. A bridge to Ketchikan Airport almost got built. Somehow a new airport connector was built around here for almost a half billion dollars even though its annual maintenance costs were more than the annual cost of the bus connector that it replaced.

 

[jis]

Where is "here"?

 

[BCL]

Where is "here"?

My here or someone else's here. I was referring to the new Oakland Airport connector to BART.

 

[jis]

You here. Thanks.

 

[BCL]

You here. Thanks.

I also referred to the proposed Gravina Island Bridge to Ketchikan Airport. That was the famous "Bridge to Nowhere". Apparently even after it got scrapped, they went ahead with a highway to connect to the nonexistent bridge. They had $26 million in federal funds appropriated. I suppose it did provide some construction jobs.

 

[cirdan]

Operations planning would be a bit bizarre, because demand would be *entirely* from tourists. It might call for entirely different schedules than a normal train line, along with outright cancellations during periods of low tourism.

It wouldn't be the only railroad in the world to live entireyl off tourists.

There are quite a few lines like that in Switzerland for example, and if you visit them off season you get a totally picture (and schedule).

In the Uk and Sweden there are lines that shut down totally off season, with the permanent staff being redeployed on maintenance work in preparation for the next season.

 

[cirdan]

Certainly there's a rational basis for an overland light rail line in a highly populated area. It's a different matter when it's a relatively low number of tourists and locals where it would require new bridges and likely condemnation of expensive and limited land. There's also a question of whether or not tourists would use it as opposed to perhaps bus shuttles.

A bus shuttle would probably be almost just as effective if it could be rendered immune to congestion. And this is the big if. Getting there would require construction of busways and ultimately land seizure and thus construction costs wouldn't be significantly lower than the rail equivalent.

 

[Palmetto]

Buses already ply the route, but it's a pain in the butt from Miami Airport or the future MiamiCentral. You have to take Metrorail to its southern terminus at Dadeland, transfer to a bus to Homestead, then transfer to another MiamiDade bus that gets you only to Marathon, I think it is. Then, it's another transfer to go the rest of the way. That's doing it on the cheap.

Greyhound has 2 trips a day from Miami International to Key West. That seems to cover it.

 

[BCL]

Certainly there's a rational basis for an overland light rail line in a highly populated area. It's a different matter when it's a relatively low number of tourists and locals where it would require new bridges and likely condemnation of expensive and limited land. There's also a question of whether or not tourists would use it as opposed to perhaps bus shuttles.

A bus shuttle would probably be almost just as effective if it could be rendered immune to congestion. And this is the big if. Getting there would require construction of busways and ultimately land seizure and thus construction costs wouldn't be significantly lower than the rail equivalent.

I was thinking in terms of something like a cruise transfer or public buses and not necessarily a public transit line. It was noted that Greyhound already services the area.

 

[MARC Rider]

Buses already ply the route, but it's a pain in the butt from Miami Airport or the future MiamiCentral. You have to take Metrorail to its southern terminus at Dadeland, transfer to a bus to Homestead, then transfer to another MiamiDade bus that gets you only to Marathon, I think it is. Then, it's another transfer to go the rest of the way. That's doing it on the cheap.

Greyhound has 2 trips a day from Miami International to Key West. That seems to cover it.

A number of tour operators also run day trips. That's how we visited. The bus picks you up at your hotel in Miami or Miami Beach at the crack of dawn, you get down to Key West at about 11, and you do your thing until the bus comes back at 5. Return to Miami after 9 PM. If you want, they'll drop you off for a couple of days, and they'll pick you up on a later day. Of course, no intermediate stops, so the service is no good if you want to go to Key Largo or Marathon, or whatever.