ramps vs elevators

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Joel N. Weber II

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I believe somewhere I came across a book (possibly Stewart Brand's How Buildings Learn, but I might be completely misremembering) that claimed that people in wheelchairs generally would prefer ramps to elevators.

Meanwhile, the MBTA's major project to retrofit accessibility into stations seems to be 100% focused on elevators, which sometimes break. I'm sure there are some stations where installing ramps would be difficult, but I think some ramps would have been possible in some places, and as far as I know no effort has been made to install any ramps.

There are several people who contribute to this site who aren't able to use stairs or escalators, and I'm curious to hear their views on this subject.
 
The nearest I have come to first hand experience is with my mother for a few years. I have no idea who came up with that, but I would say it need major qualifications.

If the rise is short, say only a few feet, yes a ramp is preferable to the wait.

If the rise is anywhere close to one floor difference or higher, the elevator is much better.

If you are pushing yourself along, a change of elevation by ramp is difficult going up and can be dangerous going down. Maybe if you are Mr (or Ms) muscle in your upper body not so, but for people that are in the chair because of weakness ramps are not easy.
 
I believe somewhere I came across a book (possibly Stewart Brand's How Buildings Learn, but I might be completely misremembering) that claimed that people in wheelchairs generally would prefer ramps to elevators.
Meanwhile, the MBTA's major project to retrofit accessibility into stations seems to be 100% focused on elevators, which sometimes break. I'm sure there are some stations where installing ramps would be difficult, but I think some ramps would have been possible in some places, and as far as I know no effort has been made to install any ramps.

There are several people who contribute to this site who aren't able to use stairs or escalators, and I'm curious to hear their views on this subject.
I think trying to generalize in this respect is just wrong. Elevators break down, unlike ramps, but it is possible through preventive maintenance and supervision (so they don't become toilets) to minimize the downtime. Also, a larger institution would have multiple elevators. OTOH, ramps can be difficult or easy depending on design, length, width, and steepness. An ADA-qualified ramp is steep, 1 inch rise per foot run ... put that in a percentage and think about the signs that would be warning trucks on a downgrade on a mountain freeway. Also consider the space this takes up, 36 feet to get up a 3 foot porch (not counting flat spots now and then for resting or turns). Some AU people who watched me go down the ramps at LAUS were probably appalled at my unsafe speeds and happy they were out of my way. However, the method I use is really the safest way to keep control because if (when) I lose it (all it takes is a slick spot on the floor, or an uneven spot that leaves a drive wheel off the ground with no traction), I run highspeed into the side and stop or capsize.

You are also going to have differences depending on manual or power chair, or scooter. (Scooters are not as maneuverable, especially the larger outdoor ones, and can have trouble with switchbacks.)

There is an interesting spot where I take my mother to Kaiser appointments. It has an elevator and a ramp with switchbacks that go the same place. I use a manual chair and prefer the elevator up, except when it has a line and the ramp is faster. My mother, as she ages, has gone from ambulatory up the steps, to walker up the ramp, to walker in the elevator, to scooter up the ramp, to manual wheelchair with me pushing (a good trick, definitely elevator, or get help from someone up ramp when elevator is out).

There is another design issue besides elevator vs ramp, and I suspect the answer from PWDs would be more consistent than your question. I prefer integrated adaptations. In other words, I don't like when the elevator or ramp separates me considerably from travel companions. I would like to be able to continue a conversation as we each take our route, or be apart a short enough time that I don't miss too much, and I prefer that their route and my route begin and end at the same place. I also don't like adaptations that are a lot of extra distance, or that require help to find; I do enjoy the detours involving freight elevators because I enjoy behind-the-scenes tours, but that is not appropriate in new construction.
 
I think trying to generalize in this respect is just wrong. Elevators break down, unlike ramps, but it is possible through preventive maintenance and supervision (so they don't become toilets) to minimize the downtime.
While this might be a generalization too, but aren't it the NYC Subway Stations that are notorious for having constantly broken "ADA" elevators? Basically, the elevators themselves, plus all their maintenance, goes to the lowest bidder, and guess what type of quality the City therefore gets? :rolleyes:
 
I think trying to generalize in this respect is just wrong. Elevators break down, unlike ramps, but it is possible through preventive maintenance and supervision (so they don't become toilets) to minimize the downtime.
While this might be a generalization too, but aren't it the NYC Subway Stations that are notorious for having constantly broken "ADA" elevators? Basically, the elevators themselves, plus all their maintenance, goes to the lowest bidder, and guess what type of quality the City therefore gets? :rolleyes:
Frankly I don't see all that many complaints about NYC subway elevators being out of service. Of course being over 100 years old, many NYC stations don't even have elevators. But frankly I see more complaints about elevators in the DC Metro, a far younger system, than I see about NYC's.

I'm not suggesting that there aren't problems, but I don't think that it's all that bad.
 
Frankly I don't see all that many complaints about NYC subway elevators being out of service. Of course being over 100 years old, many NYC stations don't even have elevators. But frankly I see more complaints about elevators in the DC Metro, a far younger system, than I see about NYC's.
I'm not suggesting that there aren't problems, but I don't think that it's all that bad.
The elevator requirement began after the first stations in Washington Metro were under construction. Therefore, the locations were not necessarily as good as they could have been if they had been part of the original design. I don't remember when the requirement first came into being, other than it was sometime in the early 70's when Gallery Place, Metro Center, etc. were holes in the ground. It was probably at least the third or fourth segment of WMATA to be opened that had elevators that were known to be part of the station before the design of the station got started. All earlier ones were in by change in either the construction or in the design pre-construction.
 
I believe somewhere I came across a book (possibly Stewart Brand's How Buildings Learn, but I might be completely misremembering) that claimed that people in wheelchairs generally would prefer ramps to elevators.
Meanwhile, the MBTA's major project to retrofit accessibility into stations seems to be 100% focused on elevators, which sometimes break. I'm sure there are some stations where installing ramps would be difficult, but I think some ramps would have been possible in some places, and as far as I know no effort has been made to install any ramps.

There are several people who contribute to this site who aren't able to use stairs or escalators, and I'm curious to hear their views on this subject.
I use a mobility scooter in my every day life for situations that require more than a short walk, and to be frankly honest I've never given a thought about if I would prefer a ramp or an elevator. I'm just glad to be able to get from point A to B even if I have to go a little out of my way.

Owners of elevators probably would like it if I preferred a ramp. I've been called "Crash" because of an occasional running into the back wall of an elevator. There's not much room in an elevator to play bumper cars! :p

One thing Alice mentioned is about tipping over on a ramp and I agree that one must be careful when going up or down a ramp... and a scooter is not exception. If a ramp is steep enough, it could cause injury if you're not careful!
 
Jst to put numbers in, the regulations require:

Slope and Rise

The maximum slope of a ramp in new construction shall be 1:12.

The maximum rise for any run shall be 30 in (760 mm)

Ramps shall have level landings at bottom and top of each ramp and each ramp run. Landings shall have the following features:

The landing length shall be a minimum of 60 in (1525 mm) clear.

this means a minimum length per steepest slope run 30 ft. Then yoiu need a 5 foot landing.

Therefore a 10 foot rise requires a minimum rampage of 150 feet.
 
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Jst to put numbers in, the regulations require:
Slope and Rise

The maximum slope of a ramp in new construction shall be 1:12.

The maximum rise for any run shall be 30 in (760 mm)

Ramps shall have level landings at bottom and top of each ramp and each ramp run. Landings shall have the following features:

The landing length shall be a minimum of 60 in (1525 mm) clear.

this means a minimum length per steepest slope run 30 ft. Then yoiu need a 5 foot landing.

Therefore a 10 foot rise requires a minimum rampage of 150 feet.
With all due respect, what do these figures mean to the average user of a wheel chair or mobility scooter? I know I don't carry a tape measure with me and measure any ramp I come across before I use it, and I doubt anyone else does either! :huh:
 
Jst to put numbers in, the regulations require:
Slope and Rise

The maximum slope of a ramp in new construction shall be 1:12.

The maximum rise for any run shall be 30 in (760 mm)

Ramps shall have level landings at bottom and top of each ramp and each ramp run. Landings shall have the following features:

The landing length shall be a minimum of 60 in (1525 mm) clear.

this means a minimum length per steepest slope run 30 ft. Then yoiu need a 5 foot landing.

Therefore a 10 foot rise requires a minimum rampage of 150 feet.
With all due respect, what do these figures mean to the average user of a wheel chair or mobility scooter? I know I don't carry a tape measure with me and measure any ramp I come across before I use it, and I doubt anyone else does either! :huh:
Actually, I do carry a tape because they are handy for all sorts of things. And when I'm in a rotten mood, I do measure goat-slope ramps (and photograph them) and complain. It is an entertaining way to cheer up myself.
 
Jst to put numbers in, the regulations require:
Slope and Rise

The maximum slope of a ramp in new construction shall be 1:12.

The maximum rise for any run shall be 30 in (760 mm)

Ramps shall have level landings at bottom and top of each ramp and each ramp run. Landings shall have the following features:

The landing length shall be a minimum of 60 in (1525 mm) clear.

this means a minimum length per steepest slope run 30 ft. Then yoiu need a 5 foot landing.

Therefore a 10 foot rise requires a minimum rampage of 150 feet.
With all due respect, what do these figures mean to the average user of a wheel chair or mobility scooter? I know I don't carry a tape measure with me and measure any ramp I come across before I use it, and I doubt anyone else does either! :huh:
Actually, I do carry a tape because they are handy for all sorts of things. And when I'm in a rotten mood, I do measure goat-slope ramps (and photograph them) and complain. It is an entertaining way to cheer up myself.
Gosh, already I stand corrected! :blush: But I can't help thinking that you're probably an exception and not the rule. Not everybody want's to be cheered up! :lol:
 
Jst to put numbers in, the regulations require:
Slope and Rise

The maximum slope of a ramp in new construction shall be 1:12.

The maximum rise for any run shall be 30 in (760 mm)

Ramps shall have level landings at bottom and top of each ramp and each ramp run. Landings shall have the following features:

The landing length shall be a minimum of 60 in (1525 mm) clear.

this means a minimum length per steepest slope run 30 ft. Then yoiu need a 5 foot landing.

Therefore a 10 foot rise requires a minimum rampage of 150 feet.
With all due respect, what do these figures mean to the average user of a wheel chair or mobility scooter? I know I don't carry a tape measure with me and measure any ramp I come across before I use it, and I doubt anyone else does either! :huh:
Since a normal set of steps is at an angle of 30 degrees, which means that in a 10 foot rise, with one landing of about the same 5 feet, you would go horizontally 22.3 feet, it mean that you have to go a lot more distance to get up the one floor average difference in elevation, which is what 10 feet amounts to.
 
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