Refund of part of an itinerary?

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

jackal

Conductor
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
1,381
Location
SGF
I'm buying a multi-city ticket for a family member. She's doing LAS-PRB, then PRB-SIM, and possibly SIM-BUR.

I know the best option is to book them separately (there's no advantage to booking them as one in this case, as none of the departure stations are staffed or have QT machines, so all the tickets will need to be mailed), but if I do book them all on a single multi-city itinerary, is it possible to get a refund for the SIM-BUR portion if she ends up not needing it? Or is it the case that once travel on an itinerary commences, no refunds can be made?
 
...if I do book them all on a single multi-city itinerary, is it possible to get a refund for the SIM-BUR portion if she ends up not needing it? Or is it the case that once travel on an itinerary commences, no refunds can be made?
It should be the standard arrangement: any unused ticket (excluding sleeper upgrades) is refundable. If the ticket has been printed, then either cash refund less 10%, or full refund in the form of a one year (and renewable) Travel Voucher.

If you reserve separately, you can print separately as needed. If you use the multi-city option, the tickets would all be printed together, but still refundable separately (as per the above restrictions).

What would interest me would be a comparison of the price, separate legs versus multi-city. On some routes there is a substantial savings with through routing, but not always.
 
If you buy the three legs as a multi-city ticket, will the connections be "guaranteed connections"? If you buy them a 3 seperate tickets, will they be guaranteed?
 
...if I do book them all on a single multi-city itinerary, is it possible to get a refund for the SIM-BUR portion if she ends up not needing it? Or is it the case that once travel on an itinerary commences, no refunds can be made?
It should be the standard arrangement: any unused ticket (excluding sleeper upgrades) is refundable. If the ticket has been printed, then either cash refund less 10%, or full refund in the form of a one year (and renewable) Travel Voucher.
That is correct, assuming that no special discounts were used that might negate the normal terms and conditions.
 
I'm buying a multi-city ticket for a family member. She's doing LAS-PRB, then PRB-SIM, and possibly SIM-BUR.
...

if I do book them all on a single multi-city itinerary, is it possible to get a refund for the SIM-BUR portion if she ends up not needing it? Or is it the case that once travel on an itinerary commences, no refunds can be made?
You can get a refund or voucher for the unused ticket!

Back in the "good old days" :lol: when you could get 100 points per segment even for the same train, I bought a multi-city ticket for KIN-PVD and PVD-BOS. When the conductor collected my ticket, he was puzzled and only collected the PVD-BOS ticket. I submitted the KIN-PVD ticket for a refund (actually a voucher)! NO QUESTIONS ASKED!

BTW - Before I got the voucher, I submitted a request to AGR, and got my 100 points! :p (sh!)
 
If you reserve separately, you can print separately as needed. If you use the multi-city option, the tickets would all be printed together, but still refundable separately (as per the above restrictions).
Normally, I'd do that, but in this case, they're all being mailed to me as none of the locations are staffed. It wouldn't make a difference, so I was going to save some hassle and just do it all in one transaction. (The only other time I'd book everything under one itinerary is if the initial station is staffed but the return station(s) aren't, in which case the separate bookings from the return station(s) would be mailed to me, negating the savings of printing them separately. This was the case with my LAX-PRB booking for last week.)

However, it just occurred to me that Amtrak now lets you mark tickets as being for pick-up from a Metrolink ticket machine. I haven't checked to see if this is allowed for SIM, but if so, I think I will book that last segment separately so that I can avoid having it mailed, and thus printed, and can therefore get a full refund if she doesn't need to use it.

I'll probably still book the LVS-PRB and PRB-SIM runs as one itinerary so that we only have to track and find one Amtrak envelope being mailed.

(BTW, thanks for all the replies about 100% exchange vs. 90% refund. However, I am familiar with Amtrak's refund/exchange policies on printed tickets--I was specifically asking if you could refund an unused part of a single booking after travel has begun. I suppose I should have known the answer already (and I suspected it as such), as each ticket has that specific segment's value printed on it (unlike an airline ticket, where routing plays virtually no part in actual fare), and that would be the amount you would receive in the form of an exchange voucher, which I'd likely take over the 90% refund...it'd force me to fly back down sometime in the next year and take Amtrak to use it!)

What would interest me would be a comparison of the price, separate legs versus multi-city. On some routes there is a substantial savings with through routing, but not always.
What I've found is that multi-city itineraries breaking up a trip that would otherwise be a through train makes the costs go up, but if you make the connection points at places where the system would naturally make you connect to another train, there's no price difference.

In other words, if I booked SAN-CHI using just the one-way function versus SAN-LAX-CHI using the multi-city option (to include a two-day layover in L.A.), the price would be the same, as either way, I would be detraining in LAX and then connecting to another train there.

However, if I booked SAN-LAX-FLG-ABQ-KCS-CHI (either with no layover at each place or with a week between trips, assuming all of the fare buckets are the same), I would end up with a very expensive ticket.

However, something just occurred to me. I think that ARROW looks at available through inventory when calculating the applicable fare bucket. This means that if, let's say, 299 seats out of 300 are booked on the very short segment LAX-SBD on the SWC, and SBD-CHI is completely empty, if someone goes to book LAX-CHI, they'll be quoted the highest bucket price for that route.

If it were possible to identify which segments have more bookings (in our hypothetical, the LAX-SBD segment), you could use the multi-city function to ticket them separately--in other words, LAX-SBD (on which you'd pay the highest bucket) and SBD-CHI (on which you'd pay the lowest bucket). The sum of these two separately-ticketed segments should be less than the single high-bucket LAX-CHI price.

Of course, loads are probably rarely bottlenecked on such a narrow section of the route, and if one section is nearly sold out, there will most likely be others that are up at high bucket too. Plus, trying to figure out which section is making the bookings jump up is probably more hassle than it's worth, as it would involve a LOT of fake test bookings (unless you know someone in Amtrak's revenue management department that could drop you a clue).

Anyone had any experience making this work to his or her advantage?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What would interest me would be a comparison of the price, separate legs versus multi-city. On some routes there is a substantial savings with through routing, but not always.
What I've found is that multi-city itineraries breaking up a trip that would otherwise be a through train makes the costs go up, but if you make the connection points at places where the system would naturally make you connect to another train, there's no price difference.
Here's an example of what I meant:

Booking today, you can get Amtrak Chicago to Sacramento for June 10, cost is $227.

Likewise, you can get Chicago to Emeryville for June 10, cost is $227.

This means the added trip from Sacramento to Emeryville is FREE with your ticket from Chicago.

Booking with Multi-City, you can still get this rate even if you transfer from the Zephyr to the Capitol Corridor Train at Sacramento. No matter which of several later trains you catch in Sacramento.

Even if you take the train from Sacramento the next morning, or early the next afternoon, you can still get the same rate.

If you take a late afternoon train, however, so that your scheduled stay in Sacramento is OVER 24 HOURS, then you pay the higher rate of $249, which exceeds the other fare by $22... which is the standard fare from SAC to EMY taken alone.

So if you want to go from Chicago to Sacramento, then continue on to Emeryville but spending LESS than 24 hours in Sacramento, you can save $22 by booking it on a single reservation rather than as separate trips.
 
Even if you take the train from Sacramento the next morning, or early the next afternoon, you can still get the same rate.
If you take a late afternoon train, however, so that your scheduled stay in Sacramento is OVER 24 HOURS, then you pay the higher rate of $249, which exceeds the other fare by $22... which is the standard fare from SAC to EMY taken alone.

So if you want to go from Chicago to Sacramento, then continue on to Emeryville but spending LESS than 24 hours in Sacramento, you can save $22 by booking it on a single reservation rather than as separate trips.
On the other hand, the Capitol Corridor Trains are Unreserved, so once the Ticket is issued (based on a same-day connection), you can stay in Sacramento as long as you like, and use that Ticket any time in the next Year!

If you live in Emeryville, this gives you a free extended stopover in Sacramento.

If you live in Sacramento, this gives you an extra free Train Ride to Emeryville (one way) for any day of your choosing.

For the return trip, you could probably get that for Free as well, if you don't mind paying for another Trip to Chicago!
 
Hmm...interesting. Didn't know about that. Maybe it has to do with the fact that you're connecting to another train.

Is CHI-SAC-EMY using the Zephyr for both segments the same, or does that make the cost go up?
 
If one buys a ticket and travels on the segments ticketed and paid for and then through an error of the Conductor ends up with the un-collected ticket for part of the route, and then asks for a refund voucher for that segment, it's called fraud or theft. It's unethical. It cheats the company out of revenue it earned. Essentially it means you lied when you got the refund. I don't think I would be boasting about it.
 
Maybe it has to do with the fact that you're connecting to another train.
Is CHI-SAC-EMY using the Zephyr for both segments the same, or does that make the cost go up?
The Reservations System doesn't care whether you transfer or not, as long as you don't spend 24 hours in one place.

Taking the Zephyr CHI --> SAC costs the same as taking the Zephyr CHI --> EMY.

CHI to Creston, Iowa costs the same as to McCook, Nebraska (391 miles away).

Likewise from Chicago to SLC costs the same as to Reno (594 miles away).

So extending the trip from SLC to Reno costs NOTHING in added fare, but only if you don't stay over in SLC.

Where it gets interesting is places like Sacramento, where one could transfer but need not, or places where you could transfer to more than one train, each resulting in a lay-over of Less than 24 hrs.

When a Trip on the Zephyr is broken, the cost for both legs together is more than the Through Fare. The difference is greatest near the Middle of the Trip, and can be very small at either end.

For example, breaking at Galesburg adds only $15. (This is for low-bucket Coach for October 3).

But CHI to Galesburg alone is $19. So if you need to go to Galesburg, you can save $4 by continuing on to California!

Breaking at Reno adds $31 above the Through Fare of $145. Reno to EMY alone is $46, so you save $15 on your trip from EMY to Reno if you then go on to Chicago.

There can also be advantages in terms of "guaranteed connections". If a long-distance Train is late and they need to put you up in a Hotel, you might have some choice as to which Town you would stay in... structuring your Tickets so that the Miss would occur in a place that you would prefer.

Sometimes I get a ticket that is valid beyond where I intend to get off, if the added portion is FREE or has a minimal cost. Then I am "ready-to-go" in case of any last-minute changes of plan or final burst of enthusiasm to keep on rolling just a little further...

Then again, one night I DID want to get off at my regular Stop, and the Conductor didn't know, and I realized they weren't going to open the Door in my Car! With some last minute shuffling and dragging of luggage, I managed to exit OK from the next Coach. Also, Don't Try This if you are Checking your Luggage!
 
If one buys a ticket and travels on the segments ticketed and paid for and then through an error of the Conductor ends up with the un-collected ticket for part of the route, and then asks for a refund voucher for that segment, it's called fraud or theft. It's unethical. It cheats the company out of revenue it earned. Essentially it means you lied when you got the refund. I don't think I would be boasting about it.
Did I miss something? :unsure:

Because I don't recall seeing anything about anyone wanting to turn in a ticket for credit that the conductor failed to lift. What I saw was Jackal asking what would happen if he booked a three segment trip for someone and they didn't ride the last segment and therefore didn't use that final ticket, could he get a refund for that final segment?
 
I bought a multi-city ticket for KIN-PVD and PVD-BOS. When the conductor collected my ticket, he was puzzled and only collected the PVD-BOS ticket. I submitted the KIN-PVD ticket for a refund (actually a voucher)! NO QUESTIONS ASKED!
BTW - Before I got the voucher, I submitted a request to AGR, and got my 100 points! tongue.gif (sh!)
 
The Reservations System doesn't care whether you transfer or not, as long as you don't spend 24 hours in one place.[snip]
Ah--so it's not the fact that you're connecting, it's the fact that the layover is less than 24 hours (or, rather, 23 hours, 59 minutes or less).

And since breaking up a trip on a long-distance route served only by one train per day would, by necessity, create a layover of exactly 24 hours (or more, if it's a trip with separately-listed arrival and departure times).

So,if you were to attempt this on a run served by multiple trains per day, such as the Silver Service/Palmetto, you could, in effect, get free stopovers in places like Charleston or Savannah, as long as you scheduled your layovers less than 24 hours. The same thing could happen with WAS-CVS-CHI, where if I wanted to break for lunch (or whatever meal works with the time schedule) in CVS and visit a friend without it costing more, I could take the Crescent WAS-CVS and then the Cardinal CVS-CHI for the same price as the Cardinal through from WAS-CHI (assuming both trains had equivalent fare buckets available)?

Interesting. If Amtrak ever gets to the point where they can run multiple trains per day on more LD routes, they'll either need to revamp the ARROW system or accept that people might get off for dinner in ABQ and just catch the next train 6 or 12 hours later without paying extra.
 
Oh, I also forgot to ask: does anyone know if the bus between LAS (actually LVS, the downtown Greyhound bus depot--LAS is the airport bus stop) and BFD is an Amtrak bus or a Greyhound bus?

Somewhere, I saw it indicated that it is Amtrak California that pays for the bus between LVS and BFD, and it is considered part of the San Joaquins route, so I'm thinking it might be an Amtrak bus (similar to the one between LAX and BFD).

Also, does it go straight from LVS to BFD (maybe making a stop in Barstow and maybe a couple other towns along the route), or does it go through LAX or something else? (The running time is about six hours, so I don't think that leaves much time to go to Los Angeles.)

Anyone know?
 
Checking the Amtrak California timetable shows that the bus from LVS to BFD (9 westbound) does not stop in Los Angeles. Here are the stops:

- Las Vegas

- Primm

- Baker

- Barstow

- Mojave

- Tehachapi

- Bakersfield

Total travel time: about 6 hours, 25 minutes
 
Somewhere, I saw it indicated that it is Amtrak California that pays for the bus between LVS and BFD, and it is considered part of the San Joaquins route, so I'm thinking it might be an Amtrak bus (similar to the one between LAX and BFD).
Yes, the Amtrak Bus to Las Vegas, Nevada is the same sort that runs BFD to LAX.

Sometimes they are painted with Amtrak livery.

Sometimes they are chartered, often from "Coach America".

All passengers on board will be Amtrak passengers, and all of them must be connecting to or from an Amtrak Train.

They do not use Greyhound busses for Amtrak connections to the Amtrak California Trains.
 
So,if you were to attempt this on a run served by multiple trains per day, such as the Silver Service/Palmetto, you could, in effect, get free stopovers in places like Charleston or Savannah, as long as you scheduled your layovers less than 24 hours.
Yes. Looking at low-bucket dates in October, I found the following:

NYP to Savannah via Charleston, SC. Through Fare $105 (by SS, SM, Palmetto, or Regional + SS)

Separate legs: $103 to Charleston, plus $20 to Savannah from there (by SM or Palmetto)

Two ways to stop over in Charleston:

Palmetto arrives 7:15 PM, stay overnight, then 5:06 AM next day take SM.

SM arrives 5:06 AM, then 7:05 PM that evening take Palmetto.

Both of these are available for $105 (no charge for the stop-over).

In each case, if departure is delayed another 24 hours, fare would be $123, same as for legs ticketed separately.

NPY to Miami via Savannah, GA. Through Fare $115 (by SS, SM, or Regional + SS). Remarkably only $10 more to Miami than for a trip ending in Savannah.

Three ways to stop over in Savannah:

Palmetto arrives 9:03 PM. Stay overnight, then take SS (4:34 AM) or SM (6:50 AM) the next day.

SS arrives 4:29 AM. Transfer to SM, departs at 6:50 AM same day.

SM arrives 6:44 AM. Stay overnight, then take SS (4:34 AM) the next day.

All of these trips are available for $115 (no charge for the stop-over).

In each case, if departure is delayed another 24 hours, fare is $170, still saving $10 compared to legs ticketed separately.

Even if departure is delayed for a couple of weeks, fare may still be $170, showing the advantage of multi-city booking.
 
The same thing could happen with WAS-CVS-CHI, where if I wanted to break for lunch (or whatever meal works with the time schedule) in CVS and visit a friend without it costing more, I could take the Crescent WAS-CVS and then the Cardinal CVS-CHI for the same price as the Cardinal through from WAS-CHI (assuming both trains had equivalent fare buckets available)?
I couldn't get it to work for Charlottesville, VA. You can get there from WAS by Bus (which costs more), or by the Cardinal (for $29 low-bucket), or by the Crescent ($35 seems to be the lowest fare).

A through trip WAS to CHI on the Cardinal (or on the CL) would be $78.

Taking the Crescent to CVS (arr 8:52 PM), then Cardinal to CHI the next day (dep 1:55 PM), fare would be $97.

This saves only $4 over the legs ticketed separately.

My guess is that the Crescent and the Cardinal (since they charge different fees for the same trip to CVS) must be programmed differently in the Reservations System, so it does not see them as possible components of a "through trip" to Chicago... even though the stop-over would be less than 24 hours.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top