Russia-US rail tunnel

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...actually I was thinking of traversing the greatest distance by train (or multiple trains) but only in one direction. For instance San Diego to the northern-most stop on the east coast... All transportation has to be by train, and has to be going in the same general direction.
Been there, done that. Once from San Diego to Portland, Maine (via New Orleans), and once from San Diego to Halifax, Nova Scotia (via Miami... but you could say via Washington DC {with an incidental detour to Miami} to keep it "all in the same general direction").
 
I have read about the concept before, did not know it dated back to the Russian Czar, Nicholas. It is an awesome undertaking and would form a bond like no other between the US and Russia. Don't know how either country would pay for it. We are lucky to get train service from New York to Washington. Just think, if one lives in St. Louis, one would ask his wife, Honey, would you like to take the train over to Vladivostok to go shopping for the weekend?

Also, just think of the new and exciting challenges and issues for this form. We would have to have a Russian Translator and others for all the various dialects. I can see heated debates between Russian and New Yorkers over departure times and dining car services. Of course there is the frozen pipes problem on Amtrak Heritage Cars and who is going to clean the bathrooms. Like someone earlier said, better leave this to science fiction and buried with Nicholas ll.

Имейте большой день!
 
It is feasible.
True. the tunnel itself is the easy part. Finding the money to build it probably less so. Building the railroad lines to access it will be far the most difficult. The Sieberial side terrain may be more difficult than the Alaskan side. Much of the approach is quite mountainous. On the US side getting past the EPA would literally require an act of Congress. Can anybody say "Pristine Wilderness"?

Therer was an article published in the December 1994 Bulletin of the American Railway Engineering Association (Bulletin No. 748, Vol. 95) n the subject of the tunnel.

Title: Interhemispheric Bering Strait Tunnel & Railroad. Author: G. Koummal. A few points from it:

The idea was first proposed in 1849.

The maximum depth of the strait is 174 feet.

The presence of Little Diomede Island (US) and Big Diomede Island (Russia) makes the project two end to end tunnels.

The shoreline to shoreline distances are US side to LD Island: 36.25 km and Russia side to BD Island 36.4 km.

He was proposing one single track tunnel for trains and a parallel service tunnel with these located so that a second tunnel could be drilled later when traffic required.
 
Would the new joint US-Russian passenger railway be called "AmFlot"?
 
It is feasible.
True. the tunnel itself is the easy part. Finding the money to build it probably less so. Building the railroad lines to access it will be far the most difficult. The Sieberial side terrain may be more difficult than the Alaskan side. Much of the approach is quite mountainous. On the US side getting past the EPA would literally require an act of Congress. Can anybody say "Pristine Wilderness"?

Therer was an article published in the December 1994 Bulletin of the American Railway Engineering Association (Bulletin No. 748, Vol. 95) n the subject of the tunnel.

Title: Interhemispheric Bering Strait Tunnel & Railroad. Author: G. Koummal. A few points from it:

The idea was first proposed in 1849.

The maximum depth of the strait is 174 feet.

The presence of Little Diomede Island (US) and Big Diomede Island (Russia) makes the project two end to end tunnels.

The shoreline to shoreline distances are US side to LD Island: 36.25 km and Russia side to BD Island 36.4 km.

He was proposing one single track tunnel for trains and a parallel service tunnel with these located so that a second tunnel could be drilled later when traffic required.
Serious question time: If the Russians decided that A) They have the money and B) It's in their interest to do this, then how much red tape would "Russia cuts the check" cut by avoiding NEPA requirements and the like? i.e. What would a private RR have to do to build a new line somewhere (since this is rather rarely discussed...almost all major new construction tends to be government-backed)?
 
On the US side getting past the EPA would literally require an act of Congress. Can anybody say "Pristine Wilderness"?
Can you say "Keystone XL?" If no environmental act or agency can prevent a project as blatant and brazen as that then even the most egregious polluters obviously have nothing to fear whatsoever.
 
1. Did anyone say anything about Russia wanting Alaska linked to the continental US??? They probably want to be able to buy Alaska back for 2 to 3 times what we paid for it (inflation adjusted). After all wasn't it a massive debt crunch that caused Russia to sell Alaska to us?

2. If the US/Canada want private companies to build a trans Alaska/Canada railroad (very little of Alaska RR would be usable, you need full East-West Alaska segment) a modest proposal would be to grant alternating sections (1 mile x 1 mile) on either side of the right of way to the builder, mineral rights included, to finance construction and encourage development.

3. The real costs to the US and Canada would be converting everything here (except Durango-Silverton) to 5 foot gauge to be compatible with the Ruskies.
 
1. Did anyone say anything about Russia wanting Alaska linked to the continental US??? They probably want to be able to buy Alaska back for 2 to 3 times what we paid for it (inflation adjusted). After all wasn't it a massive debt crunch that caused Russia to sell Alaska to us?
No, Alaska was sold because the Russian imperial government realized the Crimean War that it had no way to maintain control over Alaska, at least at a cost that was commensurate to its perceived low value. Sure, Russia had financial problems (when didn't it during the 19th century?), but the sale price of Alaska was not large enough to have any effect on Russia's financial situation.

The main goal of the sale of Alaska for both Russia and the United States was to keep Alaska out of British hands. Remember, this was at a time when many Americans expected that what is now western Canada would eventually throw in its lot with the United States. Most people thought that any transcontinental rail connection to the Canadian prairies would be through the United States, since it was thought prohibitively expensive to build a railroad across the Canadian Shield.

Имейте большой день!
Own a big day?
 
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Serious question time: If the Russians decided that A) They have the money and B) It's in their interest to do this, then how much red tape would "Russia cuts the check" cut by avoiding NEPA requirements and the like? i.e. What would a private RR have to do to build a new line somewhere (since this is rather rarely discussed...almost all major new construction tends to be government-backed)?
Who pays for it does not really matter. Soemtime look at the pains and delay that BNSF went through befoer they were allowed to build a second track through Abo Canyon.

Texas Sunset: I no nothing about Keystone XL. Waht is it and what did it do? If Keystone = Pennsylvania, it liely gets around to who greased who's palms?
 
3. The real costs to the US and Canada would be converting everything here (except Durango-Silverton) to 5 foot gauge to be compatible with the Ruskies.
Why convert? We can just use two separate consists or do what they do on the transiberian when they cross into another country and the gauges are different
 
3. The real costs to the US and Canada would be converting everything here (except Durango-Silverton) to 5 foot gauge to be compatible with the Ruskies.
Why convert? We can just use two separate consists or do what they do on the transiberian when they cross into another country and the gauges are different
There are through trains between France adn Spain and between Moscow and Beijing, and I am sure other places where a change of gauge is erquired at some point in the trip. Some are by changing wheelsets, some are by having wheelset where the wheels may be moved in or out along the axle.
 
Serious question time: If the Russians decided that A) They have the money and B) It's in their interest to do this, then how much red tape would "Russia cuts the check" cut by avoiding NEPA requirements and the like? i.e. What would a private RR have to do to build a new line somewhere (since this is rather rarely discussed...almost all major new construction tends to be government-backed)?
Who pays for it does not really matter. Soemtime look at the pains and delay that BNSF went through befoer they were allowed to build a second track through Abo Canyon.

Texas Sunset: I no nothing about Keystone XL. Waht is it and what did it do? If Keystone = Pennsylvania, it liely gets around to who greased who's palms?
Could you give me a link to some information on that? I'd be very interested. I only asked what I did because I know that adding government money complicates proposals with additional NEPA work.
 
3. The real costs to the US and Canada would be converting everything here (except Durango-Silverton) to 5 foot gauge to be compatible with the Ruskies.
Why convert? We can just use two separate consists or do what they do on the transiberian when they cross into another country and the gauges are different
There are through trains between France adn Spain and between Moscow and Beijing, and I am sure other places where a change of gauge is erquired at some point in the trip. Some are by changing wheelsets, some are by having wheelset where the wheels may be moved in or out along the axle.
Another point is that somewhere, you'd have to run the train through customs...so switching wheels could probably happen during that delay. You'd probably end up with a yard on each end of the tunnel to deal with customs stuff unless the two could cut some sort of deal to drop a customs office (and probably a consulate) on one side or the other.
 
Another point is that somewhere, you'd have to run the train through customs...so switching wheels could probably happen during that delay. You'd probably end up with a yard on each end of the tunnel to deal with customs stuff unless the two could cut some sort of deal to drop a customs office (and probably a consulate) on one side or the other.
No, you probably do a cross platform transfer from a US/standard gauge train to a Russian gauge train. You have to switch trains at some point so the train can get fully serviced.

If we use Chicago as the starting point for the ultimate LD train trip, the drive from Chicago to Fairbanks, AK is 3,470 miles. Fairbanks is as far as you can get on major roads. And Fairbanks is around 600 miles from the Bering Strait. After a journey of 4,000+ miles, the passenger cars will badly need to be cleaned and serviced. Don't even want to think what the restrooms might be like after 4,000 miles. :eek: A gauge switching through train is just nuts (even more than the tunnel proposal). So you would switch trains on the Alaska side to a special Bering Strait tunnel train and then move to a Trans-Siberian train to Moscow somewhere on the Russian side.

The huge distances on the US side from the Bering Strait, through Alaska and to major US and Canadian destination cities for freight or passenger traffic show how wacky the proposal for a Bering Strait tunnel is. Tunnels under the Strait of Gibraltar, southern end of the Red Sea, Strait of Hormuz, and from Russia or South Korea to Japan are all nearer populated regions and more likely than a tunnel or bridge across the Bering Strait.
 
If we use Chicago as the starting point for the ultimate LD train trip, the drive from Chicago to Fairbanks, AK is 3,470 miles. Fairbanks is as far as you can get on major roads. And Fairbanks is around 600 miles from the Bering Strait. After a journey of 4,000+ miles, the passenger cars will badly need to be cleaned and serviced. Don't even want to think what the restrooms might be like after 4,000 miles. :eek: A gauge switching through train is just nuts (even more than the tunnel proposal). So you would switch trains on the Alaska side to a special Bering Strait tunnel train and then move to a Trans-Siberian train to Moscow somewhere on the Russian side.
Why would you want to start the train from Chicago? Start it from Seattle, with connection (guaranteed?
rolleyes.gif
) to the Empire Builder. I checked this on Google Earth, if you build a coast-hugging rail line, like the one Coast Starlight runs on, from Seattle to Anchorage (there is no need to go as up as Fairbanks) and further to the end of Alaska closest to Bering Strait, it will be 2100 miles. Next up a 66 mile jump across the Strait using a tunnel or bridge, and there you are, on mainland Russia!
 
Texas Sunset: I no nothing about Keystone XL. Waht is it and what did it do? If Keystone = Pennsylvania, it liely gets around to who greased who's palms?
In simple terms the Keystone XL project is a pipeline link for transporting oil. It will be built by a foreign company in order to transport tar sands extract the entire width of the United States from the Canadian boarder all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico. In other words its primary purpose will be to facilitate and vastly expand the use of what is arguably the dirtiest and least efficient fuel source known to man. On a scale of "green" initiatives a project like this is pitch black.
 
Texas Sunset: I no nothing about Keystone XL. Waht is it and what did it do? If Keystone = Pennsylvania, it liely gets around to who greased who's palms?
In simple terms the Keystone XL project is a pipeline link for transporting oil. It will be built by a foreign company in order to transport tar sands extract the entire width of the United States from the Canadian boarder all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico. In other words its primary purpose will be to facilitate and vastly expand the use of what is arguably the dirtiest and least efficient fuel source known to man. On a scale of "green" initiatives a project like this is pitch black.
Thanks for the info.
 
Why would you want to start the train from Chicago? Start it from Seattle, with connection (guaranteed?
rolleyes.gif
) to the Empire Builder. I checked this on Google Earth, if you build a coast-hugging rail line, like the one Coast Starlight runs on, from Seattle to Anchorage (there is no need to go as up as Fairbanks) and further to the end of Alaska closest to Bering Strait, it will be 2100 miles. Next up a 66 mile jump across the Strait using a tunnel or bridge, and there you are, on mainland Russia!
Ok, We'll start the LD train service to Russia in Seattle. But the route can't hug the coastline because of the terrain. A rail line to Alaska would likely follow the, in very general terms, the more inland route of the Alaska highway to Fairbanks. If the destination is the Bering Strait, Anchorage is way out of the way. Anchorage can be a southern spur on the Alaska railroad.

The driving distance from Seattle to Fairbanks is around 2150 miles, and you have another 600-800 miles (depends on how twisty the route would be) to the Bering Strait. So we are in the close to 3000 mile range from Seattle to the Bering Strait if a tunnel were to be built there. About as far as NYC to Seattle to put it into perspective. A 3 day train ride? 4 days given winding terrain? Would be one heck of a scenic trip in the summer though.
 
Why would you want to start the train from Chicago? Start it from Seattle, with connection (guaranteed?
rolleyes.gif
) to the Empire Builder. I checked this on Google Earth, if you build a coast-hugging rail line, like the one Coast Starlight runs on, from Seattle to Anchorage (there is no need to go as up as Fairbanks) and further to the end of Alaska closest to Bering Strait, it will be 2100 miles. Next up a 66 mile jump across the Strait using a tunnel or bridge, and there you are, on mainland Russia!
Ok, We'll start the LD train service to Russia in Seattle. But the route can't hug the coastline because of the terrain. A rail line to Alaska would likely follow the, in very general terms, the more inland route of the Alaska highway to Fairbanks. If the destination is the Bering Strait, Anchorage is way out of the way. Anchorage can be a southern spur on the Alaska railroad.

The driving distance from Seattle to Fairbanks is around 2150 miles, and you have another 600-800 miles (depends on how twisty the route would be) to the Bering Strait. So we are in the close to 3000 mile range from Seattle to the Bering Strait if a tunnel were to be built there. About as far as NYC to Seattle to put it into perspective. A 3 day train ride? 4 days given winding terrain? Would be one heck of a scenic trip in the summer though.
I'd probably run a set of through cars attached to the Canadian and the Skeena, and then split the train off at Prince George. From there you've got the Prince George line (which would be a mess to run up the coast), or you can run the train up the old BC Rail/current CN line to Fort Nelson. At this point, you have to extend the track...follow the Alaska Highway (more or less) to Tok, and then you either go south to Anchorage/Wasilla or north to Fairbanks. Either option is going to offer some amazing scenery. You might nominally save some track laying by going to Anchorage (and the Alaskan government would probably prefer this because they could milk shipping fees off the Alaska RR), but Fairbanks is more direct. From there, you're off down the Tanana and Yukon rivers until you break to go to Nome and the bridge/tunnel. My guess is that you'd go a little bit south of an "air line" route and do your best to hug the coast (well, a little ways in to avoid erosion problems) and make sure to hit Nome (which would probably be where you'd base the American customs office, for sheer practicality reasons).
 
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