Saw some BNSF track-laying equipment at the border Tuesday

[Cascadia]

We had just completed the customs check at the border and as we got underway heading south, I saw quite the assembly parked on the track next to us, facing north.

I am not sure exactly but this is what it seemed like to me,

there were two engines, and two cars that looked like cabooses, crew cars I guess,

then a couple of car lengths of machinery, winches and stuff and lifts and stuff like that,

after that there were multiple car lengths of rail, very long, all bolted together, on flatbed cars but riding in racks, and so long that I couldn't imagine how they could travel anything but an arrow straight track?

then there was a hopper car with some of the plates the rails were bolted together with in it

at the end there was another green caboose looking crew car.

If anyone can describe to me how this all works when they are using it, that would be very interesting. Also does anyone know what project they might have been working on, to be parked at the Canadian border, on the US side at Blaine?

Hope this is okay in the Amtrak forum because I saw it from the window of the 517 Cascades train - I was riding Amtrak even though it isn't a direct Amtrak question!

 

[sunchaser]

We had just completed the customs check at the border and as we got underway heading south, I saw quite the assembly parked on the track next to us, facing north.
I am not sure exactly but this is what it seemed like to me,

there were two engines, and two cars that looked like cabooses, crew cars I guess,

then a couple of car lengths of machinery, winches and stuff and lifts and stuff like that,

after that there were multiple car lengths of rail, very long, all bolted together, on flatbed cars but riding in racks, and so long that I couldn't imagine how they could travel anything but an arrow straight track?

then there was a hopper car with some of the plates the rails were bolted together with in it

at the end there was another green caboose looking crew car.

If anyone can describe to me how this all works when they are using it, that would be very interesting. Also does anyone know what project they might have been working on, to be parked at the Canadian border, on the US side at Blaine?

Hope this is okay in the Amtrak forum because I saw it from the window of the 517 Cascades train - I was riding Amtrak even though it isn't a direct Amtrak question!

Is this what you saw?

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=track+laying+mach...%2FI-951018.htm

If it is, follow this link, it may answer your question.

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=track+laying+mach...maquivias1.html

History channel had a series called 'Extreme Trains' & it showed one in action. I just don't remember which episode it was.

 

[Cascadia]

Hey Sunchaser, thanks for those links. On the assembly I saw, I don't think there were any ties involved - just rail. Might be wrong, but didn't see any ties. Also the machine in the picture you gave the link to looks tall, my perspective is probably skewed because I was upstairs on the Superliner car looking down, but the machinery part seemed to be low to me - I might be remembering it wrong.

The main thing that struck me was how long the segments of rail were - I want to say like 7 or 8 car lengths but who knows if my perception of that has anything to do with what was actually there. Definitely more than 3 or 4 car lengths though, I think.

It was very impressive but also mysterious since I can't imagine how the parts work together or what the process of laying the rails is - also curious where they are headed with that!

I wonder too - it looked like it was headed north into Canada, it was parked just south of the border headed north (if the engine is the front!), would BNSF work in Canada? Ignorance abounds here . . . would enjoy learning more!

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Hope this is okay in the Amtrak forum because I saw it from the window of the 517 Cascades train - I was riding Amtrak even though it isn't a direct Amtrak question!

You could try to make the argument that there's no conclusive evidence that Amtrak will never run trains over the rails you saw.

 

[sunchaser]

Hey Sunchaser, thanks for those links. On the assembly I saw, I don't think there were any ties involved - just rail. Might be wrong, but didn't see any ties. Also the machine in the picture you gave the link to looks tall, my perspective is probably skewed because I was upstairs on the Superliner car looking down, but the machinery part seemed to be low to me - I might be remembering it wrong.
The main thing that struck me was how long the segments of rail were - I want to say like 7 or 8 car lengths but who knows if my perception of that has anything to do with what was actually there. Definitely more than 3 or 4 car lengths though, I think.

It was very impressive but also mysterious since I can't imagine how the parts work together or what the process of laying the rails is - also curious where they are headed with that!

I wonder too - it looked like it was headed north into Canada, it was parked just south of the border headed north (if the engine is the front!), would BNSF work in Canada? Ignorance abounds here . . . would enjoy learning more!

Cascadia,

Sorry it wasn't a match. I tried doing a google image search, but I got similar pics. You may want to try a google image search yourself & see if any of them look the same as what you saw. The links I sent were of what I saw on the 'Extreme Trains' episode. I know I watched one about the Empire Builder, so I thought they might be the same. The one I saw was laying really long rails, but it was putting down concrete ties too. It was pulling up the bad section & replacing all of it new. Maybe they can use just parts of the system to fix whats needed. Alan, if you're out there, maybe you can help!

PS Just searched on 'bnsf track laying equipment' in google image & got some other pics of equipment that might be what you saw, hope that helps!

 

[Cascadia]

I can respond to Joel's and Sunchaser's in one, by saying, maybe they are going to rip up the rough section of track that goes through White Rock, and replace so that if the Talgos ever run on it again, it won't rip them up with the violent rocking back and forth that happens on that area in White Rock.

 

[the_traveler]

History channel had a series called 'Extreme Trains' & it showed one in action. I just don't remember which episode it was.

I think it was the episode that included Horseshoe Curve. I think the were laying track.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

weren't they going to build a siding or some kind of double track bypass to allow more cascades trains to run and reduce bottlenecks.

 

[trackWalker]

We had just completed the customs check at the border and as we got underway heading south, I saw quite the assembly parked on the track next to us, facing north.
I am not sure exactly but this is what it seemed like to me,

there were two engines, and two cars that looked like cabooses, crew cars I guess,

then a couple of car lengths of machinery, winches and stuff and lifts and stuff like that,

after that there were multiple car lengths of rail, very long, all bolted together, on flatbed cars but riding in racks, and so long that I couldn't imagine how they could travel anything but an arrow straight track?

then there was a hopper car with some of the plates the rails were bolted together with in it

at the end there was another green caboose looking crew car.

If anyone can describe to me how this all works when they are using it, that would be very interesting. Also does anyone know what project they might have been working on, to be parked at the Canadian border, on the US side at Blaine?

Hope this is okay in the Amtrak forum because I saw it from the window of the 517 Cascades train - I was riding Amtrak even though it isn't a direct Amtrak question!

What you saw at Blaine, WA. was the rail pick up train (work train) with the old 1955 115# bolted rail on it from the rail relay in Whiterock, BC, Canada.

BNSF Steel Gang relayed several miles of new 115# ribbon rail starting at the USA/Canada border.

The machinery is parked on the US side because it is the closest place to park the train.

 

[TrackWalker]

Hey Sunchaser, thanks for those links. On the assembly I saw, I don't think there were any ties involved - just rail. Might be wrong, but didn't see any ties. Also the machine in the picture you gave the link to looks tall, my perspective is probably skewed because I was upstairs on the Superliner car looking down, but the machinery part seemed to be low to me - I might be remembering it wrong.
The main thing that struck me was how long the segments of rail were - I want to say like 7 or 8 car lengths but who knows if my perception of that has anything to do with what was actually there. Definitely more than 3 or 4 car lengths though, I think.

It was very impressive but also mysterious since I can't imagine how the parts work together or what the process of laying the rails is - also curious where they are headed with that!

I wonder too - it looked like it was headed north into Canada, it was parked just south of the border headed north (if the engine is the front!), would BNSF work in Canada? Ignorance abounds here . . . would enjoy learning more!

 

[TrackWalker]

Hey Sunchaser, thanks for those links. On the assembly I saw, I don't think there were any ties involved - just rail. Might be wrong, but didn't see any ties. Also the machine in the picture you gave the link to looks tall, my perspective is probably skewed because I was upstairs on the Superliner car looking down, but the machinery part seemed to be low to me - I might be remembering it wrong.
The main thing that struck me was how long the segments of rail were - I want to say like 7 or 8 car lengths but who knows if my perception of that has anything to do with what was actually there. Definitely more than 3 or 4 car lengths though, I think.

It was very impressive but also mysterious since I can't imagine how the parts work together or what the process of laying the rails is - also curious where they are headed with that!

I wonder too - it looked like it was headed north into Canada, it was parked just south of the border headed north (if the engine is the front!), would BNSF work in Canada? Ignorance abounds here . . . would enjoy learning more!

Let's try this again...

Here's a few pictures of the ribbon train in Blaine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17456491@N00/...57608358284754/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17456491@N00/...57608358284754/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/17456491@N00/...57608358284754/

This train only picks up and delivers the rail. A steel gang must lay it in the track.

To unload the rail it is chained to the rail in the track and the train drives slowly away. Before the rail is completely on the ground another piece is bolted to it and off they go again. At the end of the relay either it ends at the end of the ribbon or it is torch cut.

To pick it up there is a winch with hydraulic rollers that rolls it onto the cars as the train slowly pulls forward.

Rail lengths on the train are maximum of about 1600 feet.

BNSF owns and maintains the track into Canada as far as New Westminster, just north of the Fraser River bridge.

 

[Cascadia]

What you saw at Blaine, WA. was the rail pick up train (work train) with the old 1955 115# bolted rail on it from the rail relay in Whiterock, BC, Canada.
BNSF Steel Gang relayed several miles of new 115# ribbon rail starting at the USA/Canada border.

The machinery is parked on the US side because it is the closest place to park the train.

Track Walker, you sure make me glad I asked this question. What a comprehensive reply you have given, with pictures and everything! That was a great shot of the train with all that length of rail, on a curve!

In this part of your reply when you said "relay" I didn't read it as "re-lay", I thought a rail relay must be some kind of spur line or something. Then I thought maybe the work train process was called a relay because one train would follow the other or something. I wasn't thinking "re-lay" duh!

So was I right above when I referred to the roughness of track right at White Rock there? When the Talgos used to go through there they would be thrown from side to side pretty violently, they had to go really slowly. I have a post saved that someone wrote here explaining why that is exactly. It was very clear. Maybe I should repost it in this context.

So are there two work trains? One to pull the old track up, and one to lay the new track? The one I saw, with the old track on it, (I thought it looked new - it was all the same rust color, no shiny top, I don't think?) that one isn't the "ribbon train"?

Track Walker, it is very cool and amazing that you could come on here with such a great response to my question, with so much specific information and pictures, I am very impressed, THANKS!

Where do they take the old track, and what do they do with it?

 

[Cascadia]

I know this isn't why they are fixing the track in White Rock, but I kept this post in a bookmark because it explained so clearly why the ride is uncomfortable in the Talgos at that spot. Hasn't been a Talgo set through there for two whole years though, the Canada train has been Superliners all this time and probably will be for a while too.

Thank you rmadisonwi for the following:

The issue with the ride quality on the Cascades has to do with the specific track/equipment combination.
The rail on the northern section of the route is jointed rail, with the joints approximately 40 feet apart on each rail, but offset roughly 20 feet (so that you'll hit a joint on the left side, then a joint on the right side, then one on the left, then one on the right, etc.). The Talgo equipment used on the Cascades service has cars that are approximately 40 feet (I think they're 39 feet, actually) in length, sharing single-axle trucks between each pair of cars. Therefore, the axles are about 40 feet apart.

The fact that the distance between the joints is the same as the distance between the axles, combined with the light weight of these short cars, has the unfortunate effect of a very noticeable rocking motion left and right as the train travels along that section of the line.

 

[Cascadia]

weren't they going to build a siding or some kind of double track bypass to allow more cascades trains to run and reduce bottlenecks.

Hi kiss alive, they did make a siding and that was finished a while ago now, that was supposed to have been the big hangup for running a second train to Vancouver, but but the big hangup now is Canada Customs, who would have to staff the evening arrival and process passengers, and they say they don't have the budget for it and want Amtrak (the state of Washington) to pay $1500.00 a day for Customs and Immigration to come up from the border and receive the passengers.

Amtrak said forget it. They have already spent a ton of money expanding station hours with more station staff along the route and even remodeled the station in Bellingham to accomodate checked baggage, as well as being open evening hours.

The status now is, the province told Amtrak they will handle the immigration process during the 2 weeks of the 2010 Winter Olympics, but not after that. Amtrak told the province no way, if they are going to run a second train to Vancouver during the Olympics, they are not going to stop after that.

Standoff. I think the province is in the wrong here and they should cave and pay the extra staffing for the second train processing, and start ASAP. JMHO.

 

[TrackWalker]

Track Walker, you sure make me glad I asked this question. What a comprehensive reply you have given, with pictures and everything! That was a great shot of the train with all that length of rail, on a curve!
In this part of your reply when you said "relay" I didn't read it as "re-lay", I thought a rail relay must be some kind of spur line or something. Then I thought maybe the work train process was called a relay because one train would follow the other or something. I wasn't thinking "re-lay" duh!

So was I right above when I referred to the roughness of track right at White Rock there? When the Talgos used to go through there they would be thrown from side to side pretty violently, they had to go really slowly. I have a post saved that someone wrote here explaining why that is exactly. It was very clear. Maybe I should repost it in this context.

So are there two work trains? One to pull the old track up, and one to lay the new track? The one I saw, with the old track on it, (I thought it looked new - it was all the same rust color, no shiny top, I don't think?) that one isn't the "ribbon train"?

Track Walker, it is very cool and amazing that you could come on here with such a great response to my question, with so much specific information and pictures, I am very impressed, THANKS!

Where do they take the old track, and what do they do with it?

In this regard the definition of "work train/ribbon train/rail pick-up train" are all the same thing. The same rail car equipment is used to drop off the new rail on the ground for the steel gang and pick up the old rail off the ground after the steel gang. Sometimes it is the same assigned work train crew, sometimes a different crew.

This rail will be going to the ribbon rail plant in Laurel, Montana to be cropped (rail ends at bolt holes cut off) sorted, and will be re-welded into various lengths up to 1600 foot for use as second hand rail relays on branch lines somewhere in the BNSF system. Every curve scheduled to be relayed is pre-measured and rail length is custom ordered.

I am unaware of the roughness of the Talgos through this area but the speed limit is only 20MPH through Whiterock most likely because the City walkways are within 5 feet of the track. (Its like a track level station platform on both sides of the track a couple of miles long out there.)

As to the question of why are they replacing the old rail here? Rail relay projects were prioritized, this project was on the list for re-lay and there was money in the budget at this time to do it.

TrackWalker

########

BNSF

Track Inspector

Bellingham, WA.

 

[Cascadia]

In this regard the definition of "work train/ribbon train/rail pick-up train" are all the same thing. The same rail car equipment is used to drop off the new rail on the ground for the steel gang and pick up the old rail off the ground after the steel gang. Sometimes it is the same assigned work train crew, sometimes a different crew.
This rail will be going to the ribbon rail plant in Laurel, Montana to be cropped (rail ends at bolt holes cut off) sorted, and will be re-welded into various lengths up to 1600 foot for use as second hand rail relays on branch lines somewhere in the BNSF system. Every curve scheduled to be relayed is pre-measured and rail length is custom ordered.

I am unaware of the roughness of the Talgos through this area but the speed limit is only 20MPH through Whiterock most likely because the City walkways are within 5 feet of the track. (Its like a track level station platform on both sides of the track a couple of miles long out there.)

As to the question of why are they replacing the old rail here? Rail relay projects were prioritized, this project was on the list for re-lay and there was money in the budget at this time to do it.

TrackWalker

########

BNSF

Track Inspector

Bellingham, WA.

Oh here, now that I quoted you, I see you put your job & location, well neighbor, here I am in Bellingham too.

Thank you for your great responses. I am picturing this work being done on the waterfront in White Rock - it must draw quite a crowd when they are doing this! The machinery and assembly is very impressive, I had never seen anything like it before. I would think it would be fun for the beach visitor and resident there to see them use it in action!

I ride the train through White Rock a few times a month and there are always so many people out walking along the paths there by the tracks, you are right about the slow speeds. Someone got killed there last winter I think.

When the tide is out the flats stretch out as far as you can see, almost, and so many people have their dogs out there, and barbecues, everything, and dig for things in the sand. They all stand and wave at the train when it goes by.

North of there by Crescent Beach, when the train goes by, often many many eagles fly up from their perches and fly alongside the train, I have seen as many as over 100 eagles at once up there.

Thanks again TrackWalker, great contributions ! ! ! !

 

[AlanB]

weren't they going to build a siding or some kind of double track bypass to allow more cascades trains to run and reduce bottlenecks.

Hi kiss alive, they did make a siding and that was finished a while ago now, that was supposed to have been the big hangup for running a second train to Vancouver, but but the big hangup now is Canada Customs, who would have to staff the evening arrival and process passengers, and they say they don't have the budget for it and want Amtrak (the state of Washington) to pay $1500.00 a day for Customs and Immigration to come up from the border and receive the passengers.

Amtrak said forget it. They have already spent a ton of money expanding station hours with more station staff along the route and even remodeled the station in Bellingham to accomodate checked baggage, as well as being open evening hours.

The status now is, the province told Amtrak they will handle the immigration process during the 2 weeks of the 2010 Winter Olympics, but not after that. Amtrak told the province no way, if they are going to run a second train to Vancouver during the Olympics, they are not going to stop after that.

Standoff. I think the province is in the wrong here and they should cave and pay the extra staffing for the second train processing, and start ASAP. JMHO.

Just as an FYI, customes is a Federal matter not a Provincial matter. I'm sure that the Province wants the second train running, and I'm sure that there are those in the Federal government that also want it, but someone else in the Federal isn't paying much attention to things.

 

[Guest_TrackWalker_*]

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010win...9131/story.html

That is one very old photo.

 

[Cascadia]

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010win...9131/story.html
That is one very old photo.

No kidding, that is ancient, what kind of equipment is that? Good article though. I was talking to the crew a week ago, on the way up last Sunday, and they were saying Amtrak is not going to agree to just run the train for the two weeks of the Olympics, no way, and I can't see Amtrak paying over 500,000 a year to take tourists to Vancouver to spend money in Canada - I'm sure that's not going to happen. Will be interesting to see how they work it out.

I wish the second train was running! Would give us more options - my boyfriend lives in Vancouver. If we want to take the train to Seattle, he pretty much has to come down the night before, and take the train with me in the morning from here in Bellingham. Then to go back, he has to come here to Bellingham, and take the train the next morning back to Canada. It adds a lot of complications and travel time to the logistics. (we have never done it - have plans for a trip soon though).

If there was a train that left Vancouver in the morning, he could get on that one, I could join him on it here in Bellingham, and we could ride down together.

 

[AlanB]

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010win...9131/story.html
That is one very old photo.

No kidding, that is ancient, what kind of equipment is that? Good article though. I was talking to the crew a week ago, on the way up last Sunday, and they were saying Amtrak is not going to agree to just run the train for the two weeks of the Olympics, no way, and I can't see Amtrak paying over 500,000 a year to take tourists to Vancouver to spend money in Canada - I'm sure that's not going to happen. Will be interesting to see how they work it out.

Actually it's worse than that IMHO. I've gone aross the border several times, out here in the east, on Amtrak. There are always a decent amount of Canadian's onboard the train, so what this amounts to is that Canada is asking Amtrak to pay Canadian Customes to clear Canadian citizens returning home. :blink: Go figure, Amtrak is bringing them tourists that will spend their money in Canada, as well as Canadian citizens returning home, yet Amtrak should pay for clearing those passengers through Canadian customes.

 

[TrackWalker]

No kidding, that is ancient, what kind of equipment is that? Good article though.
If there was a train that left Vancouver in the morning, he could get on that one, I could join him on it here in Bellingham, and we could ride down together.

That is the Talgo equipment before it was painted in the Cascades colour scheme.

Leave on the train in the morning at Vancouver to spend a day in Seattle... and... and return that same night? What do you think this is...1980?

 

[volkris]

To unload the rail it is chained to the rail in the track and the train drives slowly away. Before the rail is completely on the ground another piece is bolted to it and off they go again. At the end of the relay either it ends at the end of the ribbon or it is torch cut.
To pick it up there is a winch with hydraulic rollers that rolls it onto the cars as the train slowly pulls forward.

Wait, if the train is picking up and laying down tracks, what is it rolling on?

I had pictured the process laying the track right where it needs to be, but that doesn't sound right... is it laying track along side existing track while the steel gang swaps it out, then picks the old track up from where the gang leaves it next to the new track?

 

[Cascadia]

I was talking to the crew a week ago, on the way up last Sunday, and they were saying Amtrak is not going to agree to just run the train for the two weeks of the Olympics, no way, and I can't see Amtrak paying over 500,000 a year to take tourists to Vancouver to spend money in Canada - I'm sure that's not going to happen. Will be interesting to see how they work it out.

Actually it's worse than that IMHO. I've gone aross the border several times, out here in the east, on Amtrak. There are always a decent amount of Canadian's onboard the train, so what this amounts to is that Canada is asking Amtrak to pay Canadian Customes to clear Canadian citizens returning home. :blink: Go figure, Amtrak is bringing them tourists that will spend their money in Canada, as well as Canadian citizens returning home, yet Amtrak should pay for clearing those passengers through Canadian customes.

Alan, when you put it like that, it really sounds absurd, I can see why Amtrak is saying "no way".

 

[Cascadia]

To unload the rail it is chained to the rail in the track and the train drives slowly away. Before the rail is completely on the ground another piece is bolted to it and off they go again. At the end of the relay either it ends at the end of the ribbon or it is torch cut.
To pick it up there is a winch with hydraulic rollers that rolls it onto the cars as the train slowly pulls forward.

Wait, if the train is picking up and laying down tracks, what is it rolling on?

I had pictured the process laying the track right where it needs to be, but that doesn't sound right... is it laying track along side existing track while the steel gang swaps it out, then picks the old track up from where the gang leaves it next to the new track?

You came up with a better and more detailed visualization of what must be the process, than I did. I got about halfway there and said, well, either someone will explain it or I'll just assume the crew knows what they're doing! I won't bother my head about it! LOL

 

[TrackWalker]

The work train simply lays the new ribbon rail on the shoulder of the track on the ground out of the way.

A steel gang comes in at a later time and swaps out the old with the new.

The work train comes back after the gang is gone and picks up the old rail that is now laying on the shoulder.

Old rail is taken back to Laurel, MT and unloaded. New rail for another job somewhere on the railroad is loaded.

Repeat.

Hope this makes it a little clearer.