Silver Metor Delay

[VentureForth]

Engineer: How did you derive your use of the ten second lead time to the middle of the private driveway crossing? The day I timed it back in 1977, from first sight of the diesel engine to the crossing was only three seconds. At this point, we have no testimony that the CSX engineer blew his horn for the Highland Avenue crossing, so it is not evidentiary at this time in this case. Dennis Auth

Can you please verify if I have my geography right? Is this driveway located between Highland and Tomkins?

Thanks.

 

[Ryan]

What needs to happen here is to have at least electric flashers installed at this crossing with the shunt for the circuit set well south of the curve so public and private users of this RR crossing cam always be protected by the normal visual signal that a train that is now out of sight is closing on your vehicle at, in this case, potentially, some 75 mph. That would be an effective solution for all of the thousands of unprotected crossings in the USA and would save thousands of men, women and children from a very tragic and violent death. Dennis Auth

Absolutely - you should have done that when you had the chance!

Engineer: How did you derive your use of the ten second lead time to the middle of the private driveway crossing? The day I timed it back in 1977, from first sight of the diesel engine to the crossing was only three seconds.

It's simple math - 75 MPH is approximately 110 feet per second. Given that the crossing at Highland Ave is just over 1,000 feet away, there's your 10 seconds.

 

[Ryan]

Engineer: How did you derive your use of the ten second lead time to the middle of the private driveway crossing? The day I timed it back in 1977, from first sight of the diesel engine to the crossing was only three seconds. At this point, we have no testimony that the CSX engineer blew his horn for the Highland Avenue crossing, so it is not evidentiary at this time in this case. Dennis Auth

Can you please verify if I have my geography right? Is this driveway located between Highland and Tomkins?

Thanks.

That's a good point - going past Highland, I can't see any crossings until Yardly Ave at the other end of the curve.

 

[VentureForth]

It's all about the math. Let's start with the basics - distance = rate x time. In three seconds (or 0.000833 hours), at 79 miles per hour, a train travels 0.065833 miles. 5280 feet in a mile, so that works out to be 347.6 feet travelled in 3 seconds. According to measurements taken on Google Maps, the distance from the Highland Crossing to the first driveway to the north is about 1029 feet. That would be 3x what the train can travel in 3 seconds, so 9 seconds from the crossing to the first driveway. Also, I initially ran the calculations using 75 mph, so that would bring in that extra 0.6 seconds, rounded to 10.

For a train to get from the gate to the crossing in 3 seconds, it would have to be travelling at 234 miles per hour. Now, I know back in the good ol' days, trains seemed to run a lot hotter, but I don't think that hot.

Now, these are the assumptions that I have made. If the crossing is truly only 350 feet from the Highland Crossing (again, I picked that point because that's where the curve straightens), then the three seconds would apply, and I just have the wrong location picked on my Google Maps.

 

[VentureForth]

Engineer: How did you derive your use of the ten second lead time to the middle of the private driveway crossing? The day I timed it back in 1977, from first sight of the diesel engine to the crossing was only three seconds. At this point, we have no testimony that the CSX engineer blew his horn for the Highland Avenue crossing, so it is not evidentiary at this time in this case. Dennis Auth

Can you please verify if I have my geography right? Is this driveway located between Highland and Tomkins?

Thanks.

That's a good point - going past Highland, I can't see any crossings until Yardly Ave at the other end of the curve.

The article linked in the OP stated that it was near Tomkins, so I'm assuming it was where I located it - between Tomkins and Highland Ave.

 

[Dennis Auth]

Dear Green Maned Lion: At last,a real person who possesses compassion, commonsense, and an innate humor in identifying respondents like Engineer as recipients of the Darwin Award. His dreadful comment is what provoked me to respond in the first place, but I mistakenly thought he was just having a grand moll when he wrote that, but no, this wretch is headless, bloodless, and should be in a cage somewhere with his hatred and poisonous tongue stating that a woman and her young children had the audacity to interfere with the innocent Amtrak passengers by opting to die. That is a real ugly genetic flaw in this Engineer's DNA.

My only comment now is to make a small effort to correct the fictional statements made by some of the folks above who are really just exercising their stress levels and trying to cast off the vitriol that continues to accummulate in their spleens, something like Deep Horizon.

Fact: No one who owns the remaining 10 acres of Bonnie View on the Lake owns the RR crossing access to Old Highway 17. CSXd owns it now just like the rest of their right-of-way. CSX inspects it and CSX maintains it, so all that BS about our lingering real estate issues is bunk.

Fact: We have no standing to support a law suit against CSX, nor do we have any interest in doing so. On the contrary, my roots with CSX go all the way back to the early 1930's when my Dad hired a young engineer named Tom Rice, the future CEO of CSX, now retired in Memphis.

Fact: I did not know the family that tragically perished in this accident, and my only concern and interest in this matter now is one that has been with me since I went to work for the Union Pacific RR in 1950. I love railroads, I would like to see a rebirth of passenger service in the railroads of America, and I see no reason why there has ever been an entity called a private or public unprotected crossing. I never thought the U.S. was smart to faze out railroads and after I lived in Europe for a year, I was sure it was a serious mistake. I also never believed that it was fair for the federal government to subsidize the airlines like they have, and deny railroad companies anything like they did for the railroad's chief competitors. Every time the local, state, or federal government permits, funds, or builds a new road that crosses a railroad, that agency should responsibly pay for the best equipment available to protect the crossing with flashers and gates.

Fact: This is my last post on this subject matter Green Maned Lion, and I thank you again for being positive rather than negative, and for being human rather that neanderthal. Dennis Auth

[quote name=VentureForth' date='

20 July 2010 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1279638674' post='240137]

It is unfortunate that the people on this train had to suffer the delay caused by this person's careless actions. My heart goes out to the Conductor and Engineer of the train who had to experience this in even greater depth.

It is unfortunate that such people are careless enough to interfere with the lives of innocent people. It is for the best that this person won't be around to do it anymore.

GML - I really enjoy your postings, but these Darwin Award-esque comments with every tragedy are getting to be irritating. I consider myself to be a good driver but I make mistakes. I'm thankful to God that none have caused injury to me or anyone else. Just yesterday, I instinctively turned left when my light turned green. Every other intersection has a left green arrow except this one. I about slammed into on coming van.

Everyone is capable of accidents. That's why they're not called "on purposes". Though you are technically correct in saying that this woman and her children won't ever do this again, it's presumptuous to assume that no one will ever be inconvenienced by anyone ever again because we have lost these three human beings.

 

[Ryan]

I guess we'll never know which crossing the accident was at then... The "map view" at the linked article and the text leads me to believe that it's the crossing closer to Tompkins. There are 2 distinct looking white brick pillars in the picture at the article, I don't have Flash installed on my work machine, so I can't use Google's Street View to try and match it up.

I'm starting to doubt that "Mr. Auth" is really who he says that he is.

"Bonny View" and "Bonny View on the Lake" don't return any search results for the property in question, his 3 second timing from the 70's seems to be completely impossible and the whole thing's just starting to smell fishy to me.

 

[George Harris]

It's all about the math. Let's start with the basics - distance = rate x time. In three seconds (or 0.000833 hours), at 79 miles per hour, a train travels 0.065833 miles. 5280 feet in a mile, so that works out to be 347.6 feet travelled in 3 seconds. According to measurements taken on Google Maps, the distance from the Highland Crossing to the first driveway to the north is about 1029 feet. That would be 3x what the train can travel in 3 seconds, so 9 seconds from the crossing to the first driveway. Also, I initially ran the calculations using 75 mph, so that would bring in that extra 0.6 seconds, rounded to 10.

For a train to get from the gate to the crossing in 3 seconds, it would have to be travelling at 234 miles per hour. Now, I know back in the good ol' days, trains seemed to run a lot hotter, but I don't think that hot.

Now, these are the assumptions that I have made. If the crossing is truly only 350 feet from the Highland Crossing (again, I picked that point because that's where the curve straightens), then the three seconds would apply, and I just have the wrong location picked on my Google Maps.

Venture Forth:

I made my calculations the lazy way: It is plugged in my memory that 30 mph = 44 feet per second. You can do the math to confirm that if you want to. Once there, figuring the distance covered at 75 mph is really easy. 75/30 = 2.5. 2*44 = 88. 1/2 of 44 = 22. 88+22 = 110, so 110 feet per second. There we have it, no calculator needed, but then I learned my math and engineering in the paper and slide rule era when if you did not approximate you answers in your head or on paper, you could end up with an answer with the decimal in the wrong place. Given the multiple approximations involved, anything that gives you two significant figures in your answer is close enough.

 

[Ryan]

If that's the lazy way, then mine was the super duper lazy way (but faster).

 

[VentureForth]

Aww, heck. I have Excel in front of my face all day long, so it was a quick and dirty spreadsheet. I did use a bit of Google and Convert . . .

 

[MikefromCrete]

Dear Green Maned Lion: At last,a real person who possesses compassion, commonsense, and an innate humor in identifying respondents like Engineer as recipients of the Darwin Award. His dreadful comment is what provoked me to respond in the first place, but I mistakenly thought he was just having a grand moll when he wrote that, but no, this wretch is headless, bloodless, and should be in a cage somewhere with his hatred and poisonous tongue stating that a woman and her young children had the audacity to interfere with the innocent Amtrak passengers by opting to die. That is a real ugly genetic flaw in this Engineer's DNA.

My only comment now is to make a small effort to correct the fictional statements made by some of the folks above who are really just exercising their stress levels and trying to cast off the vitriol that continues to accummulate in their spleens, something like Deep Horizon.

Fact: No one who owns the remaining 10 acres of Bonnie View on the Lake owns the RR crossing access to Old Highway 17. CSXd owns it now just like the rest of their right-of-way. CSX inspects it and CSX maintains it, so all that BS about our lingering real estate issues is bunk.

Fact: We have no standing to support a law suit against CSX, nor do we have any interest in doing so. On the contrary, my roots with CSX go all the way back to the early 1930's when my Dad hired a young engineer named Tom Rice, the future CEO of CSX, now retired in Memphis.

Fact: I did not know the family that tragically perished in this accident, and my only concern and interest in this matter now is one that has been with me since I went to work for the Union Pacific RR in 1950. I love railroads, I would like to see a rebirth of passenger service in the railroads of America, and I see no reason why there has ever been an entity called a private or public unprotected crossing. I never thought the U.S. was smart to faze out railroads and after I lived in Europe for a year, I was sure it was a serious mistake. I also never believed that it was fair for the federal government to subsidize the airlines like they have, and deny railroad companies anything like they did for the railroad's chief competitors. Every time the local, state, or federal government permits, funds, or builds a new road that crosses a railroad, that agency should responsibly pay for the best equipment available to protect the crossing with flashers and gates.

Fact: This is my last post on this subject matter Green Maned Lion, and I thank you again for being positive rather than negative, and for being human rather that neanderthal. Dennis Auth

[quote name=VentureForth' date='

20 July 2010 - 10:11 AM' timestamp='1279638674' post='240137]

It is unfortunate that the people on this train had to suffer the delay caused by this person's careless actions. My heart goes out to the Conductor and Engineer of the train who had to experience this in even greater depth.

It is unfortunate that such people are careless enough to interfere with the lives of innocent people. It is for the best that this person won't be around to do it anymore.

GML - I really enjoy your postings, but these Darwin Award-esque comments with every tragedy are getting to be irritating. I consider myself to be a good driver but I make mistakes. I'm thankful to God that none have caused injury to me or anyone else. Just yesterday, I instinctively turned left when my light turned green. Every other intersection has a left green arrow except this one. I about slammed into on coming van.

Everyone is capable of accidents. That's why they're not called "on purposes". Though you are technically correct in saying that this woman and her children won't ever do this again, it's presumptuous to assume that no one will ever be inconvenienced by anyone ever again because we have lost these three human beings.

Mr. Auth seems to have GML mixed up with someone else.

 

[Ryan]

He seems to have mixed everyone up with everyone and just called us all "Engineer"

 

[George Harris]

He seems to have mixed everyone up with everyone and just called us all "Engineer"

Cut the guy some slack. He is probably 80 plus. He states that he went to work for UP in 1950. That would make him at least 78, as you have to be at least 18 to go to work for a railroad. He also says his roots with CSX go back to the early 30's "When his dad hired Tom Rice".

 

[Hamhock]

I think I've finally figured out how it could be 3 seconds in the 1970s, yet 10 seconds today.

The Universe is EXPANDING.

 

[Ryan]

He seems to have mixed everyone up with everyone and just called us all "Engineer"

Cut the guy some slack. He is probably 80 plus. He states that he went to work for UP in 1950. That would make him at least 78, as you have to be at least 18 to go to work for a railroad. He also says his roots with CSX go back to the early 30's "When his dad hired Tom Rice".

Lighten up, Francis. It was a statement of fact, not a judgement.