Sleepers on the head again

[Donctor]

50 Cardinal - 06/01/10 - CHI

139

1731

62042 (vestibule–>head)

28022 (vestibule–>tail)

25021 (vestibule–>tail)

25075 (vestibule–>tail)

25049 (vestibule–>tail)

54577

54531

Has anyone else noticed this on other Viewliner-equipped trains? The LSL doesn't appear to have changed.

 

[cpamtfan]

50 Cardinal - 06/01/10 - CHI
139

1731

62042 (vestibule–>head)

28022 (vestibule–>tail)

25021 (vestibule–>tail)

25075 (vestibule–>tail)

25049 (vestibule–>tail)

54577

54531

Has anyone else noticed this on other Viewliner-equipped trains? The LSL doesn't appear to have changed.

LSL has two sections, so it shouldn't change.

 

[AlanB]

And the Card has no diner and therefore doesn't need to have the sleeper on the rear.

I wonder if the change was because of all the switching to put the Hoozier cars on/off the train. It would also allow the Hoozier pax to access the cafe car without needing to walk through the sleeper.

 

[Palmland]

Too bad, I was looking forward to them being on the rear for a July trip. Maybe has something to do with adding the baggage car. On the Palmetto, the AC that handles business class (on the head end) also works the baggage car.

 

[dlagrua]

And the Card has no diner and therefore doesn't need to have the sleeper on the rear.
I wonder if the change was because of all the switching to put the Hoozier cars on/off the train. It would also allow the Hoozier pax to access the cafe car without needing to walk through the sleeper.

No diner. You must mean at least a CCC? Right. Thats a long route something like 28 hours in duration. Certainly a food car of some sought is a necessaity.

 

[Notelvis]

I'd be curious too whether the sleepers on the Silver Service trains and Crecent are going back to the head end. The ride is certainly quieter when the sleepers are on the rear.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I'd be curious too whether the sleepers on the Silver Service trains and Crecent are going back to the head end. The ride is certainly quieter when the sleepers are on the rear.

Oh,but I WANT to hear the horn all night. It tells me that all is right with the world.

 

[Ryan]

And the Card has no diner and therefore doesn't need to have the sleeper on the rear.
I wonder if the change was because of all the switching to put the Hoozier cars on/off the train. It would also allow the Hoozier pax to access the cafe car without needing to walk through the sleeper.

No diner. You must mean at least a CCC? Right. Thats a long route something like 28 hours in duration. Certainly a food car of some sought is a necessaity.

CCC is a Superliner, so no. It's got the Amfleet equivalent minus the kitchen, with reheated meals for sleeper pax (which are actually quite tasty).

 

[Green Maned Lion]

50 Cardinal - 06/01/10 - CHI
139

1731

62042 (vestibule–>head)

28022 (vestibule–>tail)

25021 (vestibule–>tail)

25075 (vestibule–>tail)

25049 (vestibule–>tail)

54577

54531

Has anyone else noticed this on other Viewliner-equipped trains? The LSL doesn't appear to have changed.

I wouldn't expect so. The Cardinal is something of a special case since it does that pull-past-and-back-the-whole-damned-train-onto-them car pickup at Indianapolis. And as AlanB said, since the car runs with a Diner Lite, you don't have the Heritage lack of a vestibule door.

That being said, the way I would have expected it to be would be

179-1731(tail)-62042(tail)-28022(tail)-25021(tail)-25075(tail)-25049(tail)-54577-54531

Did you happen to see how the vestibule on 1731 was oriented? Being a converted coach, it has one.

No diner. You must mean at least a CCC? Right. Thats a long route something like 28 hours in duration. Certainly a food car of some sought is a necessaity.

The Diner Lite is an excellent food service car. Actually, one of my best trips mealwise was on the Cardinal with an overachiever SA who managed to do a good job of taking orders, plating meals, cooking meals, serving meals, doing it with alacrity, smiling her head off, laughing cheerfully, and generally making the whole trip a delight all by her lonesome.

 

[domefoamer]

The Diner Lite is an excellent food service car. Actually, one of my best trips mealwise was on the Cardinal with an overachiever SA who managed to do a good job of taking orders, plating meals, cooking meals, serving meals, doing it with alacrity, smiling her head off, laughing cheerfully, and generally making the whole trip a delight all by her lonesome.

I must disagree, respectfully. Compared to what-- a burrito cart? I rode the eastbound Cardinal on March 27-28, and came to loath this particular "diner lite." Our train was way past full, with about 280 pax including an extra coach carrying some of those diverted when the CL route was blocked by a derailment. Divide that number by the approx. 16 diner seats offered on the Cardinal, and that's your slim odds of a table-service meal. I waited thirty minutes to be seated for dinner alone, away from my family, at a bulkhead-facing half-table. AT meal times, half the little dinerette's tables were always filled with people waiting for diner seats, so anyone wanting take-out snacks had to stand in the aisle for a half hour or so, then carry the food back to their seats. It's hard to imagine a less efficient use of space.

The diner lite was out of food for about half the 24 hour trip, leaving passengers with a choice of ice water or nothing at all. The car was locked while the exhausted cook and server rested, leaving zero public lounge space for nocturnal chatterboxes (like the pair who stole my sleep with a rambling conversation that lasted till dawn). I finally got back in for lunch the second day, after it restocked. I had a nice green salad while the car lurched and leapt on what seemed like faulty track. When I went back to my coach, the ride immediately smoothed out, indicating that this diner lite car's suspension was as tired as I was.

You might have had a pleasant meal on the Cardinal, if it wasn't crowded. But the chances are great of having just the opposite experience. On my trip, I felt robbed of every perk and benefit of riding a train. Honestly, a busitution might have been a welcome choice. I certainly would have have been happy to see a burrito cart ...

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I must disagree, respectfully. Compared to what-- a burrito cart? I rode the eastbound Cardinal on March 27-28, and came to loath this particular "diner lite." Our train was way past full, with about 280 pax including an extra coach carrying some of those diverted when the CL route was blocked by a derailment. Divide that number by the approx. 16 diner seats offered on the Cardinal, and that's your slim odds of a table-service meal. I waited thirty minutes to be seated for dinner alone, away from my family, at a bulkhead-facing half-table. AT meal times, half the little dinerette's tables were always filled with people waiting for diner seats, so anyone wanting take-out snacks had to stand in the aisle for a half hour or so, then carry the food back to their seats. It's hard to imagine a less efficient use of space.
The diner lite was out of food for about half the 24 hour trip, leaving passengers with a choice of ice water or nothing at all. The car was locked while the exhausted cook and server rested, leaving zero public lounge space for nocturnal chatterboxes (like the pair who stole my sleep with a rambling conversation that lasted till dawn). I finally got back in for lunch the second day, after it restocked. I had a nice green salad while the car lurched and leapt on what seemed like faulty track. When I went back to my coach, the ride immediately smoothed out, indicating that this diner lite car's suspension was as tired as I was.

You might have had a pleasant meal on the Cardinal, if it wasn't crowded. But the chances are great of having just the opposite experience. On my trip, I felt robbed of every perk and benefit of riding a train. Honestly, a busitution might have been a welcome choice. I certainly would have have been happy to see a burrito cart ...

A Porsche 911 Turbo is an excellent car. I imagine someone looking to move house and carry several people in it might find it to be less than satisfactory for their needs, however.

 

[Ryan]

Precisely - for a "normal" load on the Cardinal, it works just fine. Having something work less than smoothly when overcrowded will happen to any car, restaurant or burrito cart.

 

[dlagrua]

It looks like Amtrak needs diners bad. As for the CCC, yes I should have realized that it was a creation only for the Superliner. We should have our first experience with it in about two weeks. We tend to believe that CL trip is heavily booked but the sudden availablity of HB bedrooms at a price of +$500 and +$600 has us puzzled. I cannot believe that anyone would pay this much for a one way bedroom but then again if your pcokets are deep enough anything is possible.

 

[Ryan]

It looks like Amtrak needs diners bad.

Considering that the newest single level diners on the rails were built in the late 1950's (this post says that 8505-09 are the newest diners built in 57/58), that's been an accurate statement for quite a number of years.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

It looks like Amtrak needs diners bad. As for the CCC, yes I should have realized that it was a creation only for the Superliner. We should have our first experience with it in about two weeks. We tend to believe that CL trip is heavily booked but the sudden availablity of HB bedrooms at a price of +$500 and +$600 has us puzzled. I cannot believe that anyone would pay this much for a one way bedroom but then again if your pcokets are deep enough anything is possible.

I am not wealthy, and as such, if I needed to rush somewhere on short notice, a high bucket sleeper would make me coach my trip. However, if my money was so high in quantity that I'd rather be comfortable than save it, I don't think I'd care what it cost.

 

[Notelvis]

I'd be curious too whether the sleepers on the Silver Service trains and Crecent are going back to the head end. The ride is certainly quieter when the sleepers are on the rear.

Oh,but I WANT to hear the horn all night. It tells me that all is right with the world.

Actually Bill, I don't care where on the train the car is BUT I'm funny about wanting to sleep with my feet toward the engines AND that is sometimes a problem in the Viewliner roomettes...... depending on where the toilet is positioned!

 

[AAARGH!]

Precisely - for a "normal" load on the Cardinal, it works just fine. Having something work less than smoothly when overcrowded will happen to any car, restaurant or burrito cart.

Well, I was on a 'normal' load last week, so the diner-lite was never crowded. But after being on 4 different Superliners just before my Cardinal trip (3 had regular diners/PPC and one had a CCC) AND having a Horizon diner on the Crescent after that, I can say that the Diner-Lites are not up to par with the others.

Of course this is just my opinion, but the quality of the food (especially for breakfast and lunch) was not nearly as good as on any of the other diners. The breakfast was especially poor. The lunch was tolerable, but again, not as good as lunch on the other trains. Dinner was the only meal that approached the quality. I had the steak, which was the roast that replaced the flat iron steak over the winter. With the sauce, it was as good as I had rememebred it to be. However, the veggies that came with it were horrendous.

The diner-lites also have a much smaller selection for each meal.

IMHO, the diner-lites just don't stack up to the other diners in the fleet.

 

[AlanB]

It looks like Amtrak needs diners bad. As for the CCC, yes I should have realized that it was a creation only for the Superliner.

Just as an FYI, when first envisioned and the first car was converted, the CCC was known as a Diner-Lite car just like the single level Amfleet cafe cars that were being converted. It was later on in part to reduce confusion because the Superliner cars still have full kitchens, unlike the Amfleets, that Amtrak decided to call the Superliner version a Cross Country Cafe.

 

[MattW]

It looks like Amtrak needs diners bad.

Yea, wasn't Amtrak supposed to announce who got what bids recently? (or am I confusing something else entirely?)

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Precisely - for a "normal" load on the Cardinal, it works just fine. Having something work less than smoothly when overcrowded will happen to any car, restaurant or burrito cart.

Well, I was on a 'normal' load last week, so the diner-lite was never crowded. But after being on 4 different Superliners just before my Cardinal trip (3 had regular diners/PPC and one had a CCC) AND having a Horizon diner on the Crescent after that, I can say that the Diner-Lites are not up to par with the others.

Of course this is just my opinion, but the quality of the food (especially for breakfast and lunch) was not nearly as good as on any of the other diners. The breakfast was especially poor. The lunch was tolerable, but again, not as good as lunch on the other trains. Dinner was the only meal that approached the quality. I had the steak, which was the roast that replaced the flat iron steak over the winter. With the sauce, it was as good as I had rememebred it to be. However, the veggies that came with it were horrendous.

The diner-lites also have a much smaller selection for each meal.

IMHO, the diner-lites just don't stack up to the other diners in the fleet.

First of all, a technicality: There is no such thing as a Horizon diner. There is such a thing as a Horizon Dinette, which is basically the same thing as an all-both-seating Amfleet I car, but with a worse ride and nastier decor. It is not capable of the same level of food preparation of even a Diner Lite. The diners you find on the single level trains that have them are known as "Heritage" cars because they were inherited from another railroad and converted to HEP (trivia tidbit: Amtrak referred to the cars that were not HEP converted as "inherited" cars)

The Horizon fleet was a desperate move to buy equipment for California, and are really just commuter coaches with nicer interior and 125 mph trucks. (And they aren't run at 125 mph, they have stability issues). It is based on the NJ Transit Comet II/Metro-North Shoreliner.

That being said, on the Crescent, Lake Shore, and Silvers, a full diner makes sense. Keep in mind that in order to use a full diner to its capacity as a full dining car, you need a cook, a cooks assistant, an LSA, and three SAs, or a total of 6 people. I believe the Amtrak employees listed make about 20 bucks an hour, so that costs 120 for every hour the train is on the track, even if the diner is closed. To use it to SDS specifications, you need a cook, an LSA, and 2 SA, still $80 per hour of on the rails time. Plus you need to have a seperate snack car, which costs another $20. So figure $100-140 to operate that per hour of train time.

The Cardinal almost never justifies that level of service. At most it would benefit from a second SA and opening up the other end of the car to diners during peak meal periods. During normal periods the single LSA and single SA more than meet the trains needs. The train carries 3 coach cars, and a single sleeper. It only has 11 sleeping rooms available. Putting more food service on the train is completely and utterly unjustifiable. I will not dispute that the Cardinal is the only train on which the diner-lite works. Which, not coincidentally, is why it is the only train that has it now.

 

[AAARGH!]

First of all, a technicality: There is no such thing as a Horizon diner. There is such a thing as a Horizon Dinette, which is basically the same thing as an all-both-seating Amfleet I car, but with a worse ride and nastier decor. It is not capable of the same level of food preparation of even a Diner Lite. The diners you find on the single level trains that have them are known as "Heritage" cars because they were inherited from another railroad and converted to HEP (trivia tidbit: Amtrak referred to the cars that were not HEP converted as "inherited" cars)

I stand corrected. I did mean Heritage Diner, not the Horizon Dinette (or diner as I wrongly called it). Brain fart I guess. I made the same mistake on my long trip report.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Totally disagree GML! On paper the diner lite might seem to work on the Card but the double duty server was worked to death on the full train I rode on last month! They also ran out of most items both in the diner and cafe, and of course this is a route that cries out for a lounge, the best views on this train are in your viewliner roomette through the top windows IMO! This route needs tro go back to Superliners with a Sightseer Lounge or else put the Dome car on it on a full time basis along with a real diner!! (This train doesnt need to run to NYP, there are plenty of trains for this route, the Card could be a first rate tourist train if Amtrak quit treating it like a stepchild!!)

 

[cpamtfan]

Not enough domes in Amtrak system for Cardinal.

Like Amtrak said they WANT to make the Cardinal a Superliner train as soon as possible. Now I don't think it will go to St. Louis (Way too many problems for it to go there). but there is a very good chance of it going to Superliner soon.

Amtrak is changing, abeit slowly.

 

[zephyr17]

Not enough domes in Amtrak system for Cardinal.Like Amtrak said they WANT to make the Cardinal a Superliner train as soon as possible. Now I don't think it will go to St. Louis (Way too many problems for it to go there). but there is a very good chance of it going to Superliner soon.

Amtrak is changing, abeit slowly.

Yes, especially considering there is only ONE dome car left on the Amtrak roster.

 

[Donctor]

The Cardinal almost never justifies that level of service. At most it would benefit from a second SA and opening up the other end of the car to diners during peak meal periods. During normal periods the single LSA and single SA more than meet the trains needs. The train carries 3 coach cars, and a single sleeper. It only has 11 sleeping rooms available. Putting more food service on the train is completely and utterly unjustifiable. I will not dispute that the Cardinal is the only train on which the diner-lite works. Which, not coincidentally, is why it is the only train that has it now.

Currently, the Cardinal doesn't justify the cost of a full diner. When the Cardinal gains more sleeper space, a full diner may be warranted. If the Card stays single level, it might make sense for an additional sleeper and full diner to be added at the same time (when the Viewliners arrive). Of course, nothing about the train's future is certain.