Sneak Peek of 10/31/05 timetable

shop deals on amazon
Shop deals on ebay
Advertise with us
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
S

Superliner Diner

Conductor
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
1,055
Location
OTOL
It's that time again, when we look ahead in Amtrak's internet reservations pages to see what they have in store for the next general timetable change.

So far they have been working on Empire Service. There will be a major renumbering of most Amtrak trains along the Empire Corridor starting October 31st.

Albany-New York trains

Generally speaking, trains will be designated in groups according to days of operation. For trains operating solely between Albany and New York City, the now "foodless" trains, the weekday runs will be numbered in the 230's and 240's, and the weekend runs in the 250's and 260's. Some minor days-of-operations changes take place as well. A few numbers remain the same.

Train 251 (Mon-Fri) becomes 233 (Mon-Fri).

Train 257 (Mon-Fri) becomes 235 (Mon-Fri).

Train 259 (Mon-Fri) becomes 237 (Mon-Fri).

Train 265 (Daily exc. Fri) becomes 239 (Daily exc. Fri).

Train 267 (Mon-Fri) becomes 241 (Mon-Fri).

Train 271 (Mon-Fri) becomes 243 (Mon-Fri).

Train 273 (Mon-Thu) becomes 245 (Mon-Thu).

Train 275 (Sat-Sun) becomes 259 (Sat-Sun).

Train 277 (Fri-Sun) becomes 261 (Fri-Sun).

Train 279 (Sat-Sun) becomes 253 (Sat-Sun).

Train 238 (Sat-Sun) becomes 250 (Sat-Sun).

Train 240 (Mon-Fri) becomes 230 (Sat-Sun).

Train 242 (Mon-Fri) becomes 232 (Mon-Fri).

Train 244 (Sat) becomes 252 (Sat).

Train 246 (Mon-Fri) becomes 234 (Mon-Fri).

Train 248 (Daily) becomes 236 (Mon-Fri).

Train 256 (Daily exc. Sat) becomes 238 (Daily exc. Sat & Mon).

Train 260 (Tue-Fri) becomes 240 (Mon-Fri).

Train 262 (Daily exc. Sat) becomes 242 (Daily).

Train 268 (Sun) becomes 258 (Sun).

Niagara Falls - New York trains

Slight renumberings so that the numbers will appear in consecutive order on the timetable. Frequencies and days of operation remain the same.

Train 287 (Sat-Sun) becomes 281 (Sat-Sun).

Train 281 (Mon-Fri) becomes 283 (Mon-Fri).

Train 283 (Daily) becomes 285 (Daily).

Train 284 (Mon-Fri) becomes 280 (Mon-Fri).

Train 280 (Sat) becomes 282 (Sat).

Train 282 (Sun) becomes 284 (Sun).

ETHAN ALLEN EXPRESS

Just one train renumbered. The rest remain the same.

Train 294 (Tue-Fri) becomes 290 (Tue-Fri).

MAPLE LEAF, LAKE SHORE LIMITED, ADIRONDACK

No changes.

More changes forthcoming.
 
Amtrak loads timetable changes into their internet reservations system from east to west over the course of a week or two. They are still working on the northeast and we'll have to wait a while for them to get to the midwest and western regions. I'm sure SuperlinerDiner will update us with any changes he finds when the changes are loaded into the system, and the rest of us will chime in to fill in any missing gaps.

Thanks for going through this time-consuming process at each timetable change Diner. It opens up a nice discussion on the forum and makes us aware of what is changes. I look forward to your upcoming posts.
 
AmtrakFan said:
Superliner Diner,Any Changes with 3,4,5 or 6?
Click to expand...
AmtrakFan,

As JCCollins said, no changes are evident yet in the West. It would however be safe to say that while the long distance trains may have slight time changes, they will keep the numbers they are currently assigned.

I'm hoping that sense prevails, however, and they change the numbers of the HEARTLAND FLYER (821/822) to something else (how about 17/18 ?) . While the only train that it intersects with is the TEXAS EAGLE (21/22/421/422) at Fort Worth, 821/822 suggests that it is a "section" of, or a "split" from the EAGLE. It is not. It is its own train and it should therefore have its own designation.
 
Very few changes coming on the Keystone Corridor. Essentially two Philadelphia-Harrisburg trains are extended to New York; one by utilizing an existing Clocker.

Train 610, the current 9:35 AM Harrisburg departure to Philadelphia, will be cancelled. It will be replaced by a 4:00 AM Harrisburg departure (yes 4 AM), Train 630, which will operate to both Philadelphia and New York. There is already an existing Clocker 630; this is essentially being extended so that it originates in Harrisburg and then runs PHL-NYP as it does now.

One westbound train is similarly replaced. Train 613, currently a 1:25 PM Philadelphia departure, will originate in New York as Train 631. 631 will continue to Harrisburg on a schedule about 20 minutes later than the current 613.

Just minor changes noted for 653 (will run 10 minutes earlier than it does now) and 657 (will run 10 minutes later than it does now).
 
Superliner Diner said:
I'm hoping that sense prevails, however, and they change the numbers of the HEARTLAND FLYER (821/822) to something else (how about 17/18 ?) . While the only train that it intersects with is the TEXAS EAGLE (21/22/421/422) at Fort Worth, 821/822 suggests that it is a "section" of, or a "split" from the EAGLE. It is not. It is its own train and it should therefore have its own designation.
Click to expand...
There are a couple of other examples of trains that are connections, yet they have numbers that are similar:

Lake Shore Limited (though this is just a recent change)

New Haven-Springfield service

Also, Thruway buses often have numbers similar to their connecting trains. I don't really see the big deal about it one way or the other.

But, since we're on the tangential topic of train number changes, I'd like to see the Coast Starlight renumbered to 11/12 (or, perhaps, 13/14). The 11/14 pair is quite outdated.
 
Superliner Diner said:
I'm hoping that sense prevails, however, and they change the numbers of the HEARTLAND FLYER (821/822) to something else (how about 17/18 ?) .   While the only train that it intersects with is the TEXAS EAGLE (21/22/421/422) at Fort Worth, 821/822 suggests that it is a "section" of, or a "split" from the EAGLE.  It is not.  It is its own train and it should therefore have its own designation.
Click to expand...
Texas and Oklahoma are rivals and Texas can't handle OK having it's own train. Thus they made it 821/822 to satisfy their superiority complex. :lol:

Also Texas dosen't want the Flyer to extend because it will negatively effect the Eagle's ridership.
 
rmadisonwi said:
But, since we're on the tangential topic of train number changes, I'd like to see the Coast Starlight renumbered to 11/12 (or, perhaps, 13/14). The 11/14 pair is quite outdated.
Click to expand...
Well I've heard the story quite a few times before about the historical significance of why 11/14 is used --- something with railroad east and west and the train going through Oakland, which is the dividing point. However that does not explain why nonconsecutive numbers are used for this train, and why the practice continues today.

11/12 would work fine, but 13/14 for a passenger train will probably never happen for reasons of superstition. Also, Amtrak has operated mail-only trains in the east using the numbers 12 and 13 (and also for a short time 9 and 10). For a while 12 also carried passengers but that was replaced by what is now Trains 190 and 490. With Amtrak out of the mail business, those numbers should be available for use.

Numbers currently available for long distance trains (not that we're going to see any new ones in the near future): 9, 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 23, 24, 25, 26, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 45, 46, 47, 60, 61, 62, 65, 70, 72, 75, 77, 81, 96.
 
Superliner Diner said:
Well I've heard the story quite a few times before about the historical significance of why 11/14 is used --- something with railroad east and west and the train going through Oakland, which is the dividing point. However that does not explain why nonconsecutive numbers are used for this train, and why the practice continues today.
Click to expand...
Well, to some extent it does explain why non-consecutive numbers were used, but not why the practice continues (other than nobody bothered to change it).

For those tuning in late, SP considered everything towards San Francisco/Oakland as "westbound" and everything away as "eastbound." Since westbound trains get odd numbers, and eastbound trains get even numbers, this meant that a train traveling through Oakland (north to south, or south to north) would change directions, and thus numbers.

For some time into the Amtrak era, the Coast Starlight was trains 11/12 in one direction (perhaps southbound?), and 13/14 in the other direction. Eventually, the dual-number practice was discontinued, and 11/14 remained. Nobody's bothered to change it since.
 
Is there really a compelling reason to change it? (PS: Logic is, unfortunately, no compelling.)

How many "regular" folks use train numbers for long-distance pairs?
 
sechs said:
Is there really a compelling reason to change it?  (PS:  Logic is, unfortunately, no compelling.)
How many "regular" folks use train numbers for long-distance pairs?
Click to expand...
It's a matter of sticking to convention. While we railfans pretty much know what we can expect Amtrak to do, the novice traveler does not. The process of reserving a trip and then taking it has to be made as simple as possible so that the potential passenger is not turned off by the process. Since just about all other long distance trains are designated by consecutive numbers, the train in question (currently 11/14) should be as well.

When we talk about corridor trains, that is a different story. There are multiple trips per day in each direction, so different numbers may be used to denote various final destinations or days of operation.
 
Which is to say that the number on corridor trains is no more confusing.

Convention doesn't matter when few use it. People ride "the southbound Coast Starlight" or "the train to Los Angeles"; that just happens to be #11.
 
I still think it's priceless when the train rolls in (say the Coast Starlight) with Engine 51, and you hear "Oh no that's not our train." Then they argue with the Conductor that it's not the right train, "But it said 51 on the front." :lol:
 
Here are more changes in the Northeast:

Downeaster

The only change here is to the first southbound train from Portland to Boston, Train 680. It is being split into weekday and weekend versions. The weekday train, which will leave Portland an hour earlier (5:20 AM vs 6:30 AM now) will retain the 680 designation. On weekends it will continue to depart from Portland at 6:20 AM, and it will be called Train 690. Both 680 and 690 will now make a stop at Haverhill, MA (this was the only intermediate station other than Old Orchard Beach in the winter, skipped by any train) at 7:03 AM and 8:03 AM respectively. Ten minutes is also being added to the trip time on both trains, giving back what was gained by the supposedly higher speeds.

There are no number, day of week, or trip time changes to any other Downeaster trains.

Northeast Corridor

There are no Clockers left on the schedule. They have either been converted to Keystones or turned over to NJ TRANSIT.

There are still, however, a couple of oddball late night trains that are most likely positioning moves. New Train 635 will operate on weekdays only, and depart from New York for Philadelphia at 11:00 PM. On Sundays only, Train 637, which currently leaves New York at 10:05, will continue in the same timeslot. Train 639, a current 11:59 PM departure from New York to Philadelphia every night except Saturdays, is gone.

Regional Train 191, currently a weekend-only Philadelphia-Washington run, will now run on Sundays only. Regional Train 121, an early Saturday New York-Washington train that was added with the Acela mess to be an equipment move for a Metroliner set, will remain on the schedule and continue on Saturdays only.

Interesting scenario with the group of trains 151, 169, 179, and 197. Currently, the latter three occupy roughly the same timeslot out of Boston. 179 runs Mondays through Thursdays and terminates Tuesday through Friday mornings in Philadelphia. Its equipment lays over several hours and becomes that morning's 151 from Philadelphia to Washington. 169 runs on Fridays only and operates straight through Philadelphia to Washington (early Saturday morning arrival). On weekends, it's Train 197, which also terminates in Philadelphia on Sunday and Monday mornings. The equipment from the Sunday Boston departure becomes Monday morning's 151. Here's how this group will operate come October 31st: Regional Train 179 will now run on Monday through Friday evenings from Boston, and it will terminate in New York that same night. Regional Train 169 will leave Boston on Saturday and Sunday evenings, and run through to Washington. There will be no more 197. Train 151, the early weekday morning train, will now originate in New York City at 4:40 AM, and make its usual stops between Philly and Washington.

Train 189, a rush hour Regional New York-Washington, is off the timetable.

Weekday Acela Express 2190, the first New York-Boston trip (and only one on the schedule that does not originate in Washington) is back. However there is no converse Boston-New York Acela Express showing up in the evening. 2175 is the last run out of Boston, but it continues to Washington. To compensate for this, there has to be one extra Washington-New York Acela Express run than there was on the April timetable, in order to return the equipment to New York to be the next morning's 2190.

Contrary to what the April timetable showed, the Metroliner is not yet dead. Amtrak is not running the Acela fleet at the 100% capacity it intended to run with the April timetable change. Thus, one hourly round trip still exists and still will exist with the October change covered by Metroliner equipment. The current Metroliner, which is the 10:00 AM Washington departure (Train 102) and the 6:00 PM New York departure (105) will become 2300 and 2301 respectively on the new schedule.

Acela Express 2220, currently the 4 PM Saturday Washington departure, and 2230, currently the 4 PM Sunday Washington departure, will both be known as 2220 on the new timetable. They currently have different numbers only because the Saturday train was converted back from a Metroliner to an Acela Express in August before the Sunday train was.

Springfield-New Haven Shuttles

Sunday-only Shuttle 497, which currently connects with Regional 197 in New Haven, apparently retains its designation, despite the fact that come November 5th it will instead connect to Regional Train 169.

Some other Shuttles were renumbered. Weekend only 461 will become 401 even though it still feeds Regional 161 in New Haven. And weekend only 491, which currently feeds Regional 195, will be renumbered to 405.

Shuttle 454 is back -- the only Shuttle that connects from an Acela Express train (2154) rather than a Regional.
 
battalion51 said:
I still think it's priceless when the train rolls in (say the Coast Starlight) with Engine 51, and you hear "Oh no that's not our train." Then they argue with the Conductor that it's not the right train, "But it said 51 on the front." :lol:
Click to expand...
Yup, I've seen that with the longhauls too. On a separate, related note, most of our California corridor trains have electronic LED signs on the sides of the coaches between the set of doors that flash the train number and train's destination. While the crews usually update the displays so passengers on the platforms will see the right train number and information, they do sometimes forget. I have seen a few passengers refuse to board the trains when the exterior LED displays are wrong, even when the conductor tries to tell them in person and over the train's PA that it IS their train. Then they end up missing their train and give the station agents hell. It's quite a sight to watch when it happens! :lol:
 
Southeastern trains

Train 90, the northbound PALMETTO, will depart Savannah, GA at 8 AM, one hour later than it does now. It will continue over its route to New York running on a later schedule.

Train 91, the southbound SILVER STAR, will take 5 extra minutes to do its New York to Miami run.

Train 92, the northbound SILVER STAR, will take 3 fewer minutes to do its Miami to New York run.

Travel times on Trains 73, 74, 79, and 80, the PIEDMONT and the CAROLINIAN, between Raleigh and Charlotte are about 5 minutes faster, thanks to track improvements coming online.

Trains 19 and 20, the CRESCENT, appear to run a little faster through the same zone, between Greensboro and Charlotte.

Schedule times on Trains 19, 20, 73, 74, 79, and 80 are adjusted slightly at Greensboro to reflect the new station location.

The SUNSET LIMITED (Trains 1 and 2) is still turning around at San Antionio, so there is no service within Florida or to New Orleans yet.
 
Eastern medium and long distance trains

CARDINAL 50/51: Just minor changes at intermediate stations. Same arrival/departure times at New York, Washington, and Chicago.

PENNSYLVANIAN 42/43/44: No changes.

CAPITOL LIMITED 29/30: Minor changes to calling times at intermediate stations. 29 will begin stopping at Elyria and Sandusky, which translates to a 5-minute later Chicago arrival.

LAKE SHORE LIMITED 48/49: Just minor changes at intermediate stations. Train 49 will take local passengers on weekends only between New York City, Croton-Harmon, Rhinecliff, Hudson, and Albany.

LAKE SHORE LTD STUB 447/448/449: No changes.

VERMONTER 54/55/56/57: Very minor changes at intermediate stations. Thruway motorcoach between St. Albans, VT and Montreal eliminated..
 
Is 49 going to be making all local stops or is it just going to be Poughkepsie (or however you spell it) like it is now?
 
battalion51 said:
Is 49 going to be making all local stops or is it just going to be Poughkepsie (or however you spell it) like it is now?
Click to expand...
Battalion,

Right now, this process has been in effect on Sundays only, since one of the mid-summer timetable changes. At that time Train 257 was changed from Sunday-Friday to Monday-Friday. To accommodate Sunday passengers, Train 49, which leaves just 5 minutes later from New York, began stopping at (in addition to its normal Croton-Harmon stop) Rhinecliff and Hudson, as well as taking local New York to Albany passengers. It does not stop in Yonkers or Poughkeepsie. On other days, 49 remains restricted between New York and Albany, and stops for pickup only at Croton-Harmon.

With the new timetable, this scenario will be extended to Saturdays and Sundays.

There is no reciprocal arrangement with 48, which obviously is less reliable through New York State having come from Chicago.

Personally, I don't think it will please the long distance passengers who have to endure the extra stops, but it does save Amtrak from operating two trains within 5-10 minutes of each other over the same trackage.
 
Chicago hub trains

Hiawatha Corridor

On Trains 329 through 342, the trip time between Chicago and Milwaukee in each direction on most trains is being cut by three minutes.

Wolverine Corridor

Timetables essentially remain the same for trains 350 through 355, except that 4 minutes travel time between Chicago and Pontiac is being added to the last trains of the day in each direction, 354 and 355.

BLUE WATER (364/365): Slight time changes, with 3-4 minutes added to the total trip time between Chicago and Port Huron.

PERE MARQUETTE (370/371): No changes.

Illinois & Missouri routes

Train 303, the south/west bound ANN RUTLEDGE, retains the change that was made in mid-summer, with its 8:15 AM departure from Chicago, arriving St. Louis 1:58 PM.

Train 22/322/422, the northbound TEXAS EAGLE, will run 5 minutes earlier between St. Louis and Chicago, leaving STL 8:30 AM.

Train 301, the KANSAS CITY MULE, will be renumbered 311. Train 306, the ST. LOUIS MULE, will be renumbered 316. This is presumably to open up more numbers for future expanded frequencies between Chicago and St. Louis.

HOOSIER STATE (317/318): No changes.

ILLINI (391/392): No changes.

ILLINOIS ZEPHYR (347/348): Minor changes. 5-8 minutes removed from the total run time between Chicago and Quincy in both directions.
 
Western long distance trains

EMPIRE BUILDER (7/8/27/28): No major changes.

CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR (5/6): No major changes. 15 minutes removed from travel time between Chicago and Denver in both directions.

SOUTHWEST CHIEF (3/4): No major changes.

SUNSET LIMITED (1/2): Post-Katrina annullment east of San Antonio continues. No major changes to timetable.

TEXAS EAGLE (21/22/321/322/421/422): See Chicago hub section for changes north of St. Louis. No other major changes.

HEARTLAND FLYER (821/822): No major changes.

CITY OF NEW ORLEANS (58/59): No major changes.

COAST STARLIGHT (11/14): No major changes.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top