Sorry this seat reserved.

[crescent-zephyr]

In my experiences I haven't seen too many of the Vacations by Rail groups act overly entitled... they are just a bit more "keep to myself and my group" types. They do seem to have a bad attitude sometimes... as in "this isn't the experience I was expecting" type attitude. Which I can understand. I don't think Vacations by Rail is advertising a luxury train, but Amtrak is pretty basic and most people probably expect train travel to be a little bit classier (for what it's worth I don't think VIA rail is all that more luxurious to non-railfans. We drool over the Budd Cars and domes but they look as plain and simple from a design perspective as most Amtrak cars. Only exception is the Diners and the Park Cars.)

I find it pretty hilarious that members of the board are suggesting Amtrak should deny this group travel because it is a bad business decision. In business it's smart to look at the "lifetime value" of a customer / client. Vacations by Rail has probably given Amtrak Millions in Revenue over the years... it would be VERY foolish for amtrak to try to loose them.

 

[BCL]

In my experiences I haven't seen too many of the Vacations by Rail groups act overly entitled... they are just a bit more "keep to myself and my group" types. They do seem to have a bad attitude sometimes... as in "this isn't the experience I was expecting" type attitude. Which I can understand. I don't think Vacations by Rail is advertising a luxury train, but Amtrak is pretty basic and most people probably expect train travel to be a little bit classier (for what it's worth I don't think VIA rail is all that more luxurious to non-railfans. We drool over the Budd Cars and domes but they look as plain and simple from a design perspective as most Amtrak cars. Only exception is the Diners and the Park Cars.)

I get that kind of thing. I remember staying at a cabin in Yellowstone where I was on the porch of the lodge building chatting it up with the warehouse manager for the area. He said his wife was a group visitor coordinator for Xanterra and they had a lot of people complaining about the quality of the accommodations. I guess they didn't quite understand what "rustic" meant. For me that brought back fond childhood memories of staying in a basic cabin around Lake Tahoe.

 

[seat38a]

I don't know what their people say in person, but neither the general website nor the trip brochures make some of the promises that people here allude to. There is a general deterioration of civility in many aspects of our daily lives, flying used to be luxurious, now its mostly like bus travel with wings. Sad. The regular passengers on the train can be pretty awful sometimes also.

They don't exactly mention all the problems on Amtrak either, but they do use words like "Experience our dedication to quality and service," and "With breathtaking scenery all across the west, you will never have a bad view out your window no matter what tour you choose," I'd feel ripped off too if nothing worked in the roomettes, or there is terrible rattling from the doors while trying to sleep and being served food on plastic disposable plates by rude surely servers(50%/%50%) and then finally dealing with the lounge lizards in the SSL. When advertising to OPWM (Old People With Money), the truth about what it really is like to travel on Amtrak would probably scare the majority of them away.

 

[seat38a]

That is part of the rub most companies will take actual revenue over potential revenue.

I believe it is called "Money Talks" AKA "SHOW ME THE MONEY." As someone who owns his own business, I've learned that talk really is cheap. There are plenty of potential customers who come to me with BIG GREAT ideas etc etc blah blah blah and how I can keep them as a long tern client blah blah and get a piece of the pie. 99.99% of these clients have a problem paying even a small invoice. I'll take the one who gives me their CC number on file and sign the work agreement and paying me the smaller amount regularly vs any potential future big payout blah blah blah.

 

[BCL]

Well - once I was on a private intercity bus in China. It was really odd too since my Mandarin Chinese is fairly limited (I've learned a little over the years) and the way it works is there are a lot of these private buses owned by the manager riding the bus. My wife and kid managed to snag the last available pair of seats together, and I went around looking for a seat. There were actually quite a few seats without a butt in them, but occupied by a bag. When I kind of pointed to several seats with bags I was given several dirty looks that said "Don't even think about taking that seat." Since my language skills there are fairly limited, I just sort of gave up. The manager noticed this. He didn't tell anyone that they had to remove their junk and let me ride, but he did offer the seat next to him in the front, and even offered me some of his snacks. It also had the best view of the TV, which was showing X-Men: First Class in English with Chinese subtitles (which I can't read).

 

[Bob Dylan]

Just like BCL, I had a similar expierence in Mexico while riding a Second Class Bus in the Mountains.

The boarding process in Mexico while riding Buses and Trains used to be everyone for themselves if you wanted a seat.

Hence people would jump lines, put kids through windows and hand their belongings to the kids through the windows ( No AC in Segunda Clase!) to "Reserve" Seats.

There used to be 2 Drivers on Mexican Buses so for a "Mordida" (a little bite,aka a Bribe)to a driver one could guarantee a good seat on the bus.

By the time I was able to board, every seat was occupied or had lots of stuff ( including chickens, goats and foodstuffs heading for market!) and several others offered the Driver 20 pesos for a seat. "¡No hay!"( there is none was the reply) so I stood along with about 25 others until we arrived into San Luis Potosi where lotsof people de-boarded and I was able to snag a seat.

During the trip up the Camino to Saltillo( overnight), the Bus was Full with standees the whole way, and I held people's stuff and even babies in my lap ( one did NOT offer Women Seats in those days in Mexico!)that were standing in the aisle.

My Seatmate,a very distinguished older Senor in a Suit and tie on the way to Monterrey on Business, offered me a homemade Torta ( Sandwich/ delicious)and Bebida( Fanta/Soda)since I had no money for food as my bag containing my money and tourist card had been stolen in the cheap hotel the Night before and my "Emergency Stash of Cash" was just enough to get back to the Border via Second Class Bus or Train.I rode the Bus cause the Aztec Eagle didn't run for 3 days due to a Strike!

Mexican people were always very friendly this way, it's just that their Culture didn't include standing in Line!

 

[BCL]

Just like BCL, I had a similar expierence in Mexico while riding a Second Class Bus in the Mountains.

The boarding process in Mexico while riding Buses and Trains used to be everyone for themselves if you wanted a seat.

Hence people would jump lines, put kids through windows and hand their belongings to the kids through the windows ( No AC in Segunda Clase!) to "Reserve" Seats.

Despite the reputation for cutting in lines, in my experience a lot of places in China it's seen as poor form and people do complain about it. One time I saw it happen, although it was someone who was disabled in a taxi line. From what I could tell he didn't say anything until someone complained about it, and then they backed off when he said he had a disability.

The bus was actually quite orderly, with the exception of the seat hogs. No chickens either, although there's the legendary story of a live chicken, an old Chinese woman, and the San Francisco MUNI 30 Stockton bus. I won't bore you with the whole story, but the punchline is "Chicken dead now."

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Hence people would jump lines, put kids through windows and hand their belongings to the kids through the windows ( No AC in Segunda Clase!) to "Reserve" Seats.

One could see the same at a Walmart on Black Friday.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hence people would jump lines, put kids through windows and hand their belongings to the kids through the windows ( No AC in Segunda Clase!) to "Reserve" Seats.

One could see the same at a Walmart on Black Friday.

ROTFLMAO!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I seriously doubt the Tour groups are paying anything higher than the lowest bucket and their group discount may mean even lower pricing. The Tour companies commit as soon as Amtrak will take a group reservation, then they open up their sites for reservations.

And by doing so they are likely getting a reduced rate, actually DEPRIVING Amtrak of potential revenue. In addition, they block out seats/sleeper space that could easily be sold individually.

Let the lanyard gangs book private varnish, keeping them out of the mix of Amtrak pax and still providing Amtrak with revenue from carrying the PVs.

My contention is that tour groups hurt Amtrak revenue more than help it. They book trips on the busiest routes in the busiest summer months. Amtrak would sell out those trains regardless. I went to the America by Rail site to find their tour dates looking to avoid them. When we got on the CZ there was another rail tour group in the sleepers. Why if it keeps going like this, we won't even be able to find space anymore or everything will be at high bucket for the ordinary traveler. These groups need their own private cars. On our Denver trip last June there were three private cars attached to the Capitol Ltd and then to the CZ at CUS. I believe that there was a diner lounge, a dome car and a full sleeper. That tour group got the four star high end service that they paid for, they were catered to, and did not have to suffer the pain of being with the peasants on the rest of the train. I spoke with a couple of passengers on that tour and they were very pleased with the luxury of the service

Why do you constantly put people into classes in your posts. We're all riding the rails together regardless of how well off we may or not be. I am no better or worse than any other pax on any trains I ride.

Who said anything about putting people in classes!? Please READ before you leap!

 

[CCC1007]

I seriously doubt the Tour groups are paying anything higher than the lowest bucket and their group discount may mean even lower pricing. The Tour companies commit as soon as Amtrak will take a group reservation, then they open up their sites for reservations.

And by doing so they are likely getting a reduced rate, actually DEPRIVING Amtrak of potential revenue. In addition, they block out seats/sleeper space that could easily be sold individually.

Let the lanyard gangs book private varnish, keeping them out of the mix of Amtrak pax and still providing Amtrak with revenue from carrying the PVs.

My contention is that tour groups hurt Amtrak revenue more than help it. They book trips on the busiest routes in the busiest summer months. Amtrak would sell out those trains regardless. I went to the America by Rail site to find their tour dates looking to avoid them. When we got on the CZ there was another rail tour group in the sleepers. Why if it keeps going like this, we won't even be able to find space anymore or everything will be at high bucket for the ordinary traveler. These groups need their own private cars. On our Denver trip last June there were three private cars attached to the Capitol Ltd and then to the CZ at CUS. I believe that there was a diner lounge, a dome car and a full sleeper. That tour group got the four star high end service that they paid for, they were catered to, and did not have to suffer the pain of being with the peasants on the rest of the train. I spoke with a couple of passengers on that tour and they were very pleased with the luxury of the service

Why do you constantly put people into classes in your posts. We're all riding the rails together regardless of how well off we may or not be. I am no better or worse than any other pax on any trains I ride.

Who said anything about putting people in classes!? Please READ before you leap!

I personally consider being called a peasant to be a classification, and I am offended that I would be considered one by not being in one of these groups.

 

[Ryan]

Who said anything about putting people in classes!? Please READ before you leap!

Here, let me help you with your reading comprehension. Plenty more examples in Dennis' posts.

Perhaps you should try reading before throwing stones.

That tour group got the four star high end service that they paid for, they were catered to, and did not have to suffer the pain of being with the peasants on the rest of the train.

 

[jebr]

This thread has derailed enough and is now out of service.