Southwest Chief-Pueblo update

[Chas]

Colorado politicians still working on keeping the route in their state.

"The first whistle for the newly formed commission to save Amtrak's Southwest Chief rail service line will officially sound Friday [sept. 5] as the group is set to gavel its inaugural meeting in Denver."

 

[greatcats]

I wish them luck trying to get that train successfully routed into and out of Pueblo. I just don't see that happening, myself.

 

[SarahZ]

The official name of the entity is the Southwest Chief Rail Line Economic Development, Rural Tourism, and Infrastructure Repair and Maintenance Commission.

It was created to coordinate and oversee efforts by the state and local governments, cooperating with the states of Kansas and New Mexico, Amtrak, and the BNSF Railway of existing Amtrak Southwest Chief rail line service in the state, including expansion of such service with a stop in Pueblo.

How receptive has NM been? Last I heard, NM wasn't willing to pony up the funds.

 

[the Duck]

Sounds like a lot of spit and sputter.! If one or both ( New Mexico; Kansas) does not give the money by December 31,2014 (this year) then Colorado's hooping and hollowering is for nothing. The New Mexico Study is to be reported to the legisture no later than OCT.1,2014 (this year). and Kansas is depending on federal grant or loan. New Mexico constitution forbids any monies directly or indirectly from any governmental division to Private Railroads. So where does that leave the State of Colorado?

 

[neroden]

Colorado isn't really putting up any money either. Just enough to allow the commission to have meetings and look for municipal or private money.

This is not going to happen. The affected muncipalities aren't willing to put up the right order of *magnitude* of money, and none of the states are putting up anything. I await Amtrak's conversations with Wichita and Amarillo eagerly.

 

[railiner]

If Colorado seriously wants to provide rail service to Pueblo, IMHO they'd be far better off expending their time and energy to finding a way to run a train or two (or more!) on the Joint Line to Colorado Springs and Denver, where they could connect with the CZ, and RTD's expanding regional rail network......

 

[NW cannonball]

Sounds like a lot of spit and sputter.! If one or both ( New Mexico; Kansas) does not give the money by December 31,2014 (this year) then Colorado's hooping and hollowering is for nothing. The New Mexico Study is to be reported to the legisture no later than OCT.1,2014 (this year). and Kansas is depending on federal grant or loan. New Mexico constitution forbids any monies directly or indirectly from any governmental division to Private Railroads. So where does that leave the State of Colorado?

I'm guessing it's like neroden says, and you say -- more or less --

Bunch of weakly subsided performers making like "We will help" but with no clue and no money.

"Spit and sputter" sound about right.

 

[jis]

The SWC consist usage ceases to work if you add two to three hours to its overall runtime. Colorado will have to pony up to find an additional consist if it wants the SWC in Pueblo I think even before they arm wrestle with BNSF to gain trackage to do so.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Bob Dylan]

Hopefully Amtrak's announced policy of not even starting discussions in re a reroute of the SWC with BNSF and cities along the Southern Transcon (ie Wichita, Amarillo etc) is just smoke and mirrors and serious behind the scene planning and negotiating is underway!

The political climate in New Mexico, Colorado and Kansas is not favorable for funding ( and Amtrak doesn't have the Millions required!) to keep the Raton routing going, while BNSF,Oklahoma and Amarillo have shown real interest in the reroute!

If you haven't ridden the SWC on the current route do it ASAP, it's gonna join the long list of vanished Classic Trains and Routings in 2016!!! That's a lock no matter what Amtrak or the blowhard politicians in the Red States claim!

 

[neroden]

Hopefully Amtrak's announced policy of not even starting discussions in re a reroute of the SWC with BNSF and cities along the Southern Transcon (ie Wichita, Amarillo etc) is just smoke and mirrors and serious behind the scene planning and negotiating is underway!

Unfortunately, we have confirmation from Amarillo (and IIRC Clovis) that Amtrak and BNSF refused to talk to them until January 2015. (Though that was nearly a year ago, so maybe Amtrak has started talking to them by now, I don't know.) I guess we just have to wait.
With the Amarillo and Wichita station buildings in friendly hands, and active passenger rail advocacy in both cities, I really think they might manage to scrape together the funding for the tracks & platforms...

 

[George Harris]

Anybody thinking a reroute of the Southwest Chief through Pueblo CO is rational under any circumstances needs to look at a map with some understanding of how to read one. These people in the group with the ridiculously long name can't even come up with money for one of these ridiculous studies, much less really do something.

 

[Eric S]

Anybody thinking a reroute of the Southwest Chief through Pueblo CO is rational under any circumstances needs to look at a map with some understanding of how to read one. These people in the group with the ridiculously long name can't even come up with money for one of these ridiculous studies, much less really do something.

Maybe they ought to spend the money on a consultant to come up with a better (shorter) name.

Or look at developing a Thruway connection, potentially to Denver if the SWC reroute through Amarillo and Wichita looks to be likely.

 

[jis]

So Sept 5 has come and gone. What exactly happened at the august Commission's meeting in Denver?

 

[Eric S]

This article in the Pueblo paper makes it sound like they elected a chairperson but didn't do much else that was newsworthy.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Like most organizations!!!

 

[jis]

Well now at least someone can say "Order. Order" in an appropriately nasal tone while trying to break the gavel. So this is definite progress.

 

[me_little_me]

The official name of the entity is the Southwest Chief Rail Line Economic Development, Rural Tourism, and Infrastructure Repair and Maintenance Commission.

It was created to coordinate and oversee efforts by the state and local governments, cooperating with the states of Kansas and New Mexico, Amtrak, and the BNSF Railway of existing Amtrak Southwest Chief rail line service in the state, including expansion of such service with a stop in Pueblo.

How receptive has NM been? Last I heard, NM wasn't willing to pony up the funds.

I'm not sure it is in their best interests.

Santa Fe with the RailRunner, now has easy access to Albuquerque Amtrak station instead of the existing bus to Lamy.

NM loses connection at Las Vegas and Raton but picks up Clovis.

For even a NM Amtrak lover, there may be no reason to spend money to save the existing route if someone will pay BNSF for the Transcon costs.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

If Colorado seriously wants to provide rail service to Pueblo, IMHO they'd be far better off expending their time and energy to finding a way to run a train or two (or more!) on the Joint Line to Colorado Springs and Denver, where they could connect with the CZ, and RTD's expanding regional rail network......

Agreed.

 

[SarahZ]

The official name of the entity is the Southwest Chief Rail Line Economic Development, Rural Tourism, and Infrastructure Repair and Maintenance Commission.

It was created to coordinate and oversee efforts by the state and local governments, cooperating with the states of Kansas and New Mexico, Amtrak, and the BNSF Railway of existing Amtrak Southwest Chief rail line service in the state, including expansion of such service with a stop in Pueblo.

How receptive has NM been? Last I heard, NM wasn't willing to pony up the funds.

I'm not sure it is in their best interests.

Santa Fe with the RailRunner, now has easy access to Albuquerque Amtrak station instead of the existing bus to Lamy.

NM loses connection at Las Vegas and Raton but picks up Clovis.

For even a NM Amtrak lover, there may be no reason to spend money to save the existing route if someone will pay BNSF for the Transcon costs.

Agreed.

I think NM would be more likely to add an extra Rail Runner or two to the schedule to accommodate the SWC's arrival/departure times (especially on weekends) than fund the upgrades. I have no idea what those accounting numbers would look like, but I have to imagine it would be cheaper, and I'm sure the residents of ABQ and Santa Fe would appreciate the extra service.

 

[Chas]

This popped up on another Southwest Chief thread:

http://www.krdo.com/news/federal-grant-will-help-keep-southwest-chief-running/27955618

 

[VentureForth]

Why do we have three threads on the SWC reroute - all on the front page?

 

[VentureForth]

The SWC consist usage ceases to work if you add two to three hours to its overall runtime. Colorado will have to pony up to find an additional consist if it wants the SWC in Pueblo I think even before they arm wrestle with BNSF to gain trackage to do so.

You are much more knowledgeable than I am here, but I only see 70 more miles (80 currently between La Junta and Trinidad vs 150 through Pueblo) being added. Because of the Pueblo test track, I would imagine that the line between La Junta and Pueblo as well as the line between Pueblo and Trinidad being at least 60 MPH. I would say nominally 90 minutes. Heck, even if they could pull it off in an hour it would hurt the current schedule and could run into conflict with the NM Railrunner. I'm sure they would improve it to 79 MPH - but I just don't see where three hours comes from. I don't see anyone thinking that it would be OK to run through Pueblo, averaging only 23 MPH.

Now, if they wanted to run all the way to Union Station (not that far off the path), I can see how a wye move would add all sorts of unnecessary time. But if an Amshack were built off Santa Fe Blvd, then there would be no backing move required. After all, since when does Amtrak always use the most glorious of stations when there's an easier way a couple hundred feet away?

 

[George Harris]

At this point, I have neither the time nor the inclination to check the mileages, but the location of the Pueblo Test Track has little to nothing to do with the quality and speed limits of the various railroad routes into Pueblo. The equipment running on the test track is captive to the test track. When it is moved in or out of the test track, the allowed speed on the lines over which it moves is relatively irrelevant, since this would be a one time move each way.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

According to USA Today,

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2016/07/07/amtrak-southwest-chief-pueblo-colorado/86817192/

an Amtrak study came up with this plan, estimated to add 14,000 passengers a year.

... begin serving the city by detaching a car and locomotive on the westbound route at La Junta, Colo., running them along existing tracks to Pueblo's historic passenger train depot, and then reconnecting the car and locomotive to the main train on the eastbound trip. The additional service could begin as soon as next year, depending on funding and needed railroad improvements. Amtrak estimates the service would generate $1.4 million in new revenue.

... Adding service to Pueblo with what's known as "thru cars" would be cheaper and easier than rerouting the entire train through Pueblo. Amtrak officials conducted the study on behalf of Pueblo County, with funding from the county's marijuana taxes. Amtrak officials have not yet decided whether they will create the new service.

This plan gets service CHI-Kansas-Pueblo without wrecking the carefully constructed Southwest Chief timetable. It does nothing for Colorado riders heading west to Albuquerque, Flagstaff, and L.A. But it could be a modest improvement, and why not?

 

[neroden]

A good idea.