Southwest Chief Room Pricing

[johnny.menhennet]

Phrasing clarification request: Did they just add the sleeper for the whole trip, or were they forced to scrap the idea because of space issues? I'm not 100% clear on what you just said, and while I would assume that you said they're just adding the sleeper for the whole trip...I'm not quite certain.

They are adding the sleeper for the whole trip.

I recently booked GBB to DEN and then DEN to EMY. For both segments I'm in car 533, which would have to be the third sleeper.

Well, couldn't it also be the Transdorm?

that was my thought, but since they are at opposite ends of the train, I don't know if that would affect the numbering

 

[Anderson]

Phrasing clarification request: Did they just add the sleeper for the whole trip, or were they forced to scrap the idea because of space issues? I'm not 100% clear on what you just said, and while I would assume that you said they're just adding the sleeper for the whole trip...I'm not quite certain.

They are adding the sleeper for the whole trip.

I recently booked GBB to DEN and then DEN to EMY. For both segments I'm in car 533, which would have to be the third sleeper.

Well, couldn't it also be the Transdorm?

that was my thought, but since they are at opposite ends of the train, I don't know if that would affect the numbering

If they're dropping cars, them being at opposite ends of the train would make sense...but wouldn't a car being run through be kept on the same end of the train? Or is the Transdorm up front and the sleepers on the Zephyr in the back these days?

 

[zephyr17]

Phrasing clarification request: Did they just add the sleeper for the whole trip, or were they forced to scrap the idea because of space issues? I'm not 100% clear on what you just said, and while I would assume that you said they're just adding the sleeper for the whole trip...I'm not quite certain.

They are adding the sleeper for the whole trip.

I recently booked GBB to DEN and then DEN to EMY. For both segments I'm in car 533, which would have to be the third sleeper.

Well, couldn't it also be the Transdorm?

Transdorm is never in a 30 series line number. And unless the OP are in a roomette with a number above 14, he's not in a transdorm

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Phrasing clarification request: Did they just add the sleeper for the whole trip, or were they forced to scrap the idea because of space issues? I'm not 100% clear on what you just said, and while I would assume that you said they're just adding the sleeper for the whole trip...I'm not quite certain.

They are adding the sleeper for the whole trip.

I recently booked GBB to DEN and then DEN to EMY. For both segments I'm in car 533, which would have to be the third sleeper.

Well, couldn't it also be the Transdorm?

that was my thought, but since they are at opposite ends of the train, I don't know if that would affect the numbering

Or is the Transdorm up front and the sleepers on the Zephyr in the back these days?

This is the truth

 

[dlagrua]

Sleeper fares may continue to rise by leaps and bounds UNTIL ridership starts dropping. If the prices keep rising I may not be riding the trains much but if they still sell out then the middle class may be priced out.

 

[Anderson]

Sleeper fares may continue to rise by leaps and bounds UNTIL ridership starts dropping. If the prices keep rising I may not be riding the trains much but if they still sell out then the middle class may be priced out.

At the risk of getting a bit political, the middle class is on its way to being priced out of a lot of things...and it's not anyone's fault when you get right down to it. Look at the middle class lifestyle circa 1955 if you will, and how they traveled (or didn't).

There's a line in "Allentown": "Our fathers fought the Second World War/Spent their weekends on the Jersey shore". Jersey shore, not Florida coast or Cancun, or on a cruise ship circling the Caribbean. There was a time when you had a lot of regional resorts (in the South, you might go to the Gulf Coast or Pigeon Forge/Gatlinburg; in the Midwest, Minnesota or Lake Michigan would be options). And you'd have local/regional amusement parks as well (I recall there being Ocean View in Hampton Roads from what my mother said...they demolished that one when they made the movie The Death of Ocean View...basically, the demolition of the park was an excuse for a B-movie being made, but that's another story; there was also another park on the other side of the James River at Buckroe Beach).

Look, over a longer time frame travel has generally been far, far more expensive in real terms than it has been over the last 20-40 years (basically, this side of the inflation and deregulation of the 1970s). Witness the evidence of the SCL fares in the late 60s/early 70s (or the Pennsy/Santa Fe fares of the same vintage) versus coach fares today. I believe that a similar disparity exists on the airline front as well; only the cruise lines have likely been saved from this, and only there by bulking up on volume so much that it's not even funny.*

What we are experiencing is a reversion to the mean. Is it what a lot of people want? No...Greece is an outlier, but the Western world as a whole is built on expectations and desires above and beyond what people would naturally have access to. But is it natural to see this go away? Yes it is.

*Of course, it's not like Amtrak hasn't tried the same trick as much as it can. Superliners, anyone?

 

[printman2000]

Phrasing clarification request: Did they just add the sleeper for the whole trip, or were they forced to scrap the idea because of space issues? I'm not 100% clear on what you just said, and while I would assume that you said they're just adding the sleeper for the whole trip...I'm not quite certain.

They are adding the sleeper for the whole trip.

I recently booked GBB to DEN and then DEN to EMY. For both segments I'm in car 533, which would have to be the third sleeper.

Yes, 533 is the seasonal sleeper. I wish they were dropping it in Denver. We have roomettes 9 & 10 in the 532 car and it would be cool if they were the last rooms on the train.

 

[Rail Freak]

I'm booked on the 632 Car in August, thinking it's the last car in the consist! This isnt the case????

 

[printman2000]

I'm booked on the 632 Car in August, thinking it's the last car in the consist! This isnt the case????

Nope. Unless they stop using the seasonal sleeper before your trip.

 

[Rail Freak]

I'm booked on the 632 Car in August, thinking it's the last car in the consist! This isnt the case????

Nope. Unless they stop using the seasonal sleeper before your trip.

I'm using AGR Pts. & booked before April 1st, if I change rooms will my point cost go up?

Answer my own question, there is the 633 car & I didnt get charged for the change in car #s!!! Love the Rail Fan Window thru the Rockies!!!!

 

[jb64]

And you'd have local/regional amusement parks as well (I recall there being Ocean View in Hampton Roads from what my mother said...they demolished that one when they made the movie The Death of Ocean View...basically, the demolition of the park was an excuse for a B-movie being made, but that's another story; there was also another park on the other side of the James River at Buckroe Beach).

Getting way off topic here but the mention of Buckroe Beach Amusement Park brings back lots of great memories. They had a wonderful old wooden roller coaster, great bumper cars, a tunel of love with a flume at the end, and a fabulous dance pavilion. We went there about every weekend during the summer when I was a kid. Thanks for the mention Anderson.

 

[printman2000]

Looking at next years trip options, because of the huge increase on the Southwest Chief, I am actually considering driving to El Paso and riding 422/421 round trip to Chicago.

For four people in two roomettes:

Lamy to Chicago (24 hours, one night and only 3 meals): $1203

El Paso to Chicago (45 hours, two nights and 6 meals): $912

So again, either Amtrak thinks they can actually get people to pay these high prices or they are purposefully trying to reduce passenger loads on this train.

 

[Mackensen]

Looking at next years trip options, because of the huge increase on the Southwest Chief, I am actually considering driving to El Paso and riding 422/421 round trip to Chicago.

For four people in two roomettes:

Lamy to Chicago (24 hours, one night and only 3 meals): $1203

El Paso to Chicago (45 hours, two nights and 6 meals): $912

So again, either Amtrak thinks they can actually get people to pay these high prices or they are purposefully trying to reduce passenger loads on this train.

I suspect it's the former. If loads are high it makes sense to raise fares and see what the market will bear. Compare with the City of New Orleans, which is absurdly cheap but also runs less than half full between Memphis and New Orleans.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

At the risk of getting a bit political, the middle class is on its way to being priced out of a lot of things...and it's not anyone's fault when you get right down to it. Look at the middle class lifestyle circa 1955 if you will, and how they traveled (or didn't)...What we are experiencing is a reversion to the mean. Is it what a lot of people want? No...Greece is an outlier, but the Western world as a whole is built on expectations and desires above and beyond what people would naturally have access to. But is it natural to see this go away? Yes it is.

Don't forget that in 1955 you still had single salary households. Now you have dual salary households that are being diluted to the point that they can only afford what a single salary household was able to provide for in the past. In some cases we're now seeing three or even four salaries under the same roof as offspring fail to establish their own nests and return home. However, these additional salaries are often saddled with debt and cannot easily contribute toward shared expenses. In my view this is a new dynamic, at least in the post-Depression era.

 

[printman2000]

Looking at next years trip options, because of the huge increase on the Southwest Chief, I am actually considering driving to El Paso and riding 422/421 round trip to Chicago.

For four people in two roomettes:

Lamy to Chicago (24 hours, one night and only 3 meals): $1203

El Paso to Chicago (45 hours, two nights and 6 meals): $912

So again, either Amtrak thinks they can actually get people to pay these high prices or they are purposefully trying to reduce passenger loads on this train.

Get this...

If we go from Fort Worth to Chicago, it is only $693 each way. Same amount of train time as Lamy to Chicago and same number of meals. That makes the Southwest Chief $1020 more expensive than almost the exact same time trip. The Southwest Chief does cover an extra 200 miles, but that does not justify the $1000.

 

[gatelouse]

The SWC has been more expensive than the other western trains for some time. Ten-plus years ago, when an EMY-CHI roomette could be had for about a $225 upcharge, the SWC was asking well over $300 for LAX-CHI. IIRC the Sunset/Eagle cost less back then too.

I think most people pay a premium for a faster trip; interest in rail travel seems to drop off as the number of travel days goes up. We here are anomalies.

 

[printman2000]

The SWC has been more expensive than the other western trains for some time. Ten-plus years ago, when an EMY-CHI roomette could be had for about a $225 upcharge, the SWC was asking well over $300 for LAX-CHI. IIRC the Sunset/Eagle cost less back then too.

I think most people pay a premium for a faster trip; interest in rail travel seems to drop off as the number of travel days goes up. We here are anomalies.

There may have been some price difference, but nothing like they are doing next year.

This year, Lamy to Chicago is $238 for a roomette, up to $408 next year.

Denver to Chicago, $250, this year and next.

Not sure what you meant by "We here are anomalies." but there are no anomalies that I can see. They just jacked up the prices.

 

[user 1215]

Not sure what you meant by "We here are anomalies." but there are no anomalies that I can see. They just jacked up the prices.

We the fanatical daily mind-wanderers of preferring to be on a train are anomalies compared to the rest of the folks that ride Amtrak - to get from point A to point B. We are the ones ecstatic to get a better price AND to spend an extra day on the train. From revenue management, though, getting the most money getting people from point A to B as quickly as possible has the best potential for return.

 

[printman2000]

Not sure what you meant by "We here are anomalies." but there are no anomalies that I can see. They just jacked up the prices.

We the fanatical daily mind-wanderers of preferring to be on a train are anomalies compared to the rest of the folks that ride Amtrak - to get from point A to point B. We are the ones ecstatic to get a better price AND to spend an extra day on the train. From revenue management, though, getting the most money getting people from point A to B as quickly as possible has the best potential for return.

I would not be so quick to lump us all in to that definition. I use Amtrak for transportation because I prefer it to other forms. I highly suspect MOST people on Amtrak trains feel the same way. Not that I think it is crazy, but I have never taken a train vacation. We just use the train on our vacation (and consider it part of the vacation).

Anyway, I am not sure what that has to do with the huge price increase on the SWC, other than them wanting to get the most they can get. Problem is, I think this will hurt the train. I have used it for the past 5 years for our yearly vacation. However, next year, I have already made other plans. Amtrak has successfully priced me, a dedicated train traveler, out of using the SWC.

Lets hope they come to their senses soon and change the pricing. If they do not, you will not see sold out SWC trains very often next year.

 

[zephyr17]

Not sure what you meant by "We here are anomalies." but there are no anomalies that I can see. They just jacked up the prices.

We the fanatical daily mind-wanderers of preferring to be on a train are anomalies compared to the rest of the folks that ride Amtrak - to get from point A to point B. We are the ones ecstatic to get a better price AND to spend an extra day on the train. From revenue management, though, getting the most money getting people from point A to B as quickly as possible has the best potential for return.

I would not be so quick to lump us all in to that definition. I use Amtrak for transportation because I prefer it to other forms. I highly suspect MOST people on Amtrak trains feel the same way. Not that I think it is crazy, but I have never taken a train vacation. We just use the train on our vacation (and consider it part of the vacation).

Anyway, I am not sure what that has to do with the huge price increase on the SWC, other than them wanting to get the most they can get. Problem is, I think this will hurt the train. I have used it for the past 5 years for our yearly vacation. However, next year, I have already made other plans. Amtrak has successfully priced me, a dedicated train traveler, out of using the SWC.

Lets hope they come to their senses soon and change the pricing. If they do not, you will not see sold out SWC trains very often next year.

If they are doing it right, they are now more in their "senses" than they were before and capturing more revenue through smarter yield management and not pricing too low. They are trying to maximize revenue. So they are aiming for a price that maximizes the amount of money they can get for the room without it going empty. If that prices me out (and the upper buckets do price me out), but someone else will pay it, that is just the way of the world. If you and I can't afford it, well, there are lots of things I can't afford or chose not to spend money on. I don't have a right to have those things.

The point for Amtrak is not to leave money on the table, and they don't want to leave money on the table by either not getting as much revenue as they could, or by letting the room go out empty by pricing too high. If it is too high, they won't sell, and they'll put more rooms in lower buckets.

 

[printman2000]

If they are doing it right, they are now more in their "senses" than they were before and capturing more revenue through smarter yield management and not pricing too low. They are trying to maximize revenue. So they are aiming for a price that maximizes the amount of money they can get for the room without it going empty. If that prices me out (and the upper buckets do price me out), but someone else will pay it, that is just the way of the world. If you and I can't afford it, well, there are lots of things I can't afford or chose not to spend money on. I don't have a right to have those things.

The point for Amtrak is not to leave money on the table, and they don't want to leave money on the table by either not getting as much revenue as they could, or by letting the room go out empty by pricing too high. If it is too high, they won't sell, and they'll put more rooms in lower buckets.

First off, if you read my very first post that started this thread, you will see that I acknowledge that this increase COULD BE because they think they can get it from people. I have never once said that anything else is for sure the reason. Though, as you did, I am not willing to say with 100% certainty that this is simply a yield management decision. I actually hope it is, but I cannot say for certain there is not something political going on in the background to cause this.

Read what I have said, I have never claimed nor inferred I had ANY rights here as far as their pricing goes. I do take exception to any inference that I am claiming I have a right to lower prices.

My whole point of this thread is to point out the price increase of this train and to possibly discuss what people think it means. Your opinion seems to be that you think it is simply a yield management decision. I hope that is it, but I cannot say it is for certain.

 

[saxman]

I'm willing to bet that the price will come down in due time. I just rode the SWC from LAX to ABQ and got the low bucket for a sleeper in the middle of July. I bought the ticket in February. Id say check back in the coming months to really see what happens with the prices.

 

[printman2000]

I'm willing to bet that the price will come down in due time. I just rode the SWC from LAX to ABQ and got the low bucket for a sleeper in the middle of July. I bought the ticket in February. Id say check back in the coming months to really see what happens with the prices.

I hope you are right. But not holding my breath.

 

[twillian]

It seems to be system-wide. I've been pricing a trip from EMY to EUG on the Coast Starlight for next year, and the first price that comes up when the date first becomes available is $291, which is at least $100 more than I paid for the same roomette this summer (and I know I didn't get the first bucket that time).

 

[printman2000]

While the CS may have had some price increase, it is not system wide. The SWC has been hit hard but not the CZ or TE.