St. Paul Union Depot

[Swadian Hardcore]

All the renovations just for 2 trains a day?

God knows how badly MSP to CHI train is needed.

Another train MSP-CHI would be welcome here. The proposed reinstatement of passenger service to Duluth would also be welcome. The extension of the Northstar commuter train to Saint Cloud would be good - now there's a train to bus thing on that line. The proposed Red Rock commuter line would be good if economically feasible.

But right now the SPUD renovation project will serve the EB - the only Amtrak train here. And many other transit and other services.

Will serve the light-rail extension in progress serving most shopping and sports venues here in MSP including "Mall of America" (Mal d'Amer is my private word for the place - French for sea-sick)

And will serve the Saint Paul Riverfront area with local attractions and have quick easy transit to the main airport.

The project is not only to serve the EB - the old Midway Amtrak depot has been doing that for decades.

Washington Union Station it won't be -- useful it might be -- it will be a few years before anyone knows how it works out.

Why is there no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

 

[NW cannonball]

All the renovations just for 2 trains a day?

God knows how badly MSP to CHI train is needed.

Another train MSP-CHI would be welcome here. The proposed reinstatement of passenger service to Duluth would also be welcome. The extension of the Northstar commuter train to Saint Cloud would be good - now there's a train to bus thing on that line. The proposed Red Rock commuter line would be good if economically feasible.

But right now the SPUD renovation project will serve the EB - the only Amtrak train here. And many other transit and other services.

Will serve the light-rail extension in progress serving most shopping and sports venues here in MSP including "Mall of America" (Mal d'Amer is my private word for the place - French for sea-sick)

And will serve the Saint Paul Riverfront area with local attractions and have quick easy transit to the main airport.

The project is not only to serve the EB - the old Midway Amtrak depot has been doing that for decades.

Washington Union Station it won't be -- useful it might be -- it will be a few years before anyone knows how it works out.

Why is tere no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

See the thread about adding trains on existing routes

Oh, wait - you were just kidding - about Wisconsin et al --

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

All the renovations just for 2 trains a day?

God knows how badly MSP to CHI train is needed.

Another train MSP-CHI would be welcome here. The proposed reinstatement of passenger service to Duluth would also be welcome. The extension of the Northstar commuter train to Saint Cloud would be good - now there's a train to bus thing on that line. The proposed Red Rock commuter line would be good if economically feasible.

But right now the SPUD renovation project will serve the EB - the only Amtrak train here. And many other transit and other services.

Will serve the light-rail extension in progress serving most shopping and sports venues here in MSP including "Mall of America" (Mal d'Amer is my private word for the place - French for sea-sick)

And will serve the Saint Paul Riverfront area with local attractions and have quick easy transit to the main airport.

The project is not only to serve the EB - the old Midway Amtrak depot has been doing that for decades.

Washington Union Station it won't be -- useful it might be -- it will be a few years before anyone knows how it works out.

Why is tere no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

See the thread about adding trains on existing routes

Oh, wait - you were just kidding - about Wisconsin et al --

Uh, I don't understand. What are you talking about? Didn't Wisconsin just cancel the Talgos?

 

[NW cannonball]

All the renovations just for 2 trains a day?

God knows how badly MSP to CHI train is needed.

Another train MSP-CHI would be welcome here. The proposed reinstatement of passenger service to Duluth would also be welcome. The extension of the Northstar commuter train to Saint Cloud would be good - now there's a train to bus thing on that line. The proposed Red Rock commuter line would be good if economically feasible.

But right now the SPUD renovation project will serve the EB - the only Amtrak train here. And many other transit and other services.

Will serve the light-rail extension in progress serving most shopping and sports venues here in MSP including "Mall of America" (Mal d'Amer is my private word for the place - French for sea-sick)

And will serve the Saint Paul Riverfront area with local attractions and have quick easy transit to the main airport.

The project is not only to serve the EB - the old Midway Amtrak depot has been doing that for decades.

Washington Union Station it won't be -- useful it might be -- it will be a few years before anyone knows how it works out.

Why is tere no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

See the thread about adding trains on existing routes

Oh, wait - you were just kidding - about Wisconsin et al --

Uh, I don't understand. What are you talking about? Didn't Wisconsin just cancel the Talgos?

And also the HSR project MSP-CHI - so who are you kidding?

Yeah - no additional LD train service likely at MSP.

SPUD will have to survive on the EB and local transit for at least a few years. Hope it does. Longer term -- yo no se.

 

[dabrilloman]

All the renovations just for 2 trains a day?

God knows how badly MSP to CHI train is needed.

Another train MSP-CHI would be welcome here. The proposed reinstatement of passenger service to Duluth would also be welcome. The extension of the Northstar commuter train to Saint Cloud would be good - now there's a train to bus thing on that line. The proposed Red Rock commuter line would be good if economically feasible.

But right now the SPUD renovation project will serve the EB - the only Amtrak train here. And many other transit and other services.

Will serve the light-rail extension in progress serving most shopping and sports venues here in MSP including "Mall of America" (Mal d'Amer is my private word for the place - French for sea-sick)

And will serve the Saint Paul Riverfront area with local attractions and have quick easy transit to the main airport.

The project is not only to serve the EB - the old Midway Amtrak depot has been doing that for decades.

Washington Union Station it won't be -- useful it might be -- it will be a few years before anyone knows how it works out.

I don't know how much room they will have at the renovated SPUD for restaurants or shops. It would have been nice if they could have saved the sky ways that came from the old Post Office building over Sibley St. to what was the K-dock building that was torn down and connected them to the Depot somehow. The first floor of the old Post Office would have made for a ton of space for dining and shopping.

I drove past the Spud yesterday (14th) and the outside areas all look to be cleaning up nicely...can't wait for the grand re-opening!

 

[VentureForth]

Go back and watch the videos and powerpoint presentations. There are already close to 30 tenants set up for leases in the building. Some will be there to serve the light rail passengers, some for the EB, some tenants probably not there to serve the public at all. My grand kids taxes over here in Georgia helped to pay for the restoration, and to a greater percentage the residents of Minnesota. So the property will be paid for. Leases will just need to cover operating costs, maintenance, taxes, and if lucky will pay for future expansion.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

All the renovations just for 2 trains a day?

God knows how badly MSP to CHI train is needed.

Another train MSP-CHI would be welcome here. The proposed reinstatement of passenger service to Duluth would also be welcome. The extension of the Northstar commuter train to Saint Cloud would be good - now there's a train to bus thing on that line. The proposed Red Rock commuter line would be good if economically feasible.

But right now the SPUD renovation project will serve the EB - the only Amtrak train here. And many other transit and other services.

Will serve the light-rail extension in progress serving most shopping and sports venues here in MSP including "Mall of America" (Mal d'Amer is my private word for the place - French for sea-sick)

And will serve the Saint Paul Riverfront area with local attractions and have quick easy transit to the main airport.

The project is not only to serve the EB - the old Midway Amtrak depot has been doing that for decades.

Washington Union Station it won't be -- useful it might be -- it will be a few years before anyone knows how it works out.

Why is tere no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

See the thread about adding trains on existing routes

Oh, wait - you were just kidding - about Wisconsin et al --

Uh, I don't understand. What are you talking about? Didn't Wisconsin just cancel the Talgos?

And also the HSR project MSP-CHI - so who are you kidding?

Yeah - no additional LD train service likely at MSP.

SPUD will have to survive on the EB and local transit for at least a few years. Hope it does. Longer term -- yo no se.

I'm not kidding anybody. You don't have to believe me but I'm really not.

 

[railiner]

Thoroughly enjoyed that video tour of the Saint Paul station. I have fond memories of riding the combined Burlington Vista-Dome Afternoon Twin Cities Zephyr/Great Northern Great-Dome Empire Builder/Northern Pacific Vista-Dome North Coast Limited from Chicago. What a railfan delight that huge train was. During peak seasons it ran in separate sections....

 

[NW cannonball]

Thoroughly enjoyed that video tour of the Saint Paul station. I have fond memories of riding the combined Burlington Vista-Dome Afternoon Twin Cities Zephyr/Great Northern Great-Dome Empire Builder/Northern Pacific Vista-Dome North Coast Limited from Chicago. What a railfan delight that huge train was. During peak seasons it ran in separate sections....

Rode the long-time-ago TC Zephyr Saint Paul to Chicago many many years ago.

Hoping for another MSP-CHI train - but it will be a while before that happens.

Hoping that the Saint Paul Union Depot project succeeds.

Looks OK so far.

 

[Nathanael]

Why is there no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

This was a joke, right?

Wisconsin was part of a multistate agreement dating back decades to provide lots more, improved, Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-MSP service.

Governor Walker killed it because he hates trains. He spent government money for the purpose of killing it too -- spent more than it would have cost to operate the Madison train for ten years.

As it is, we can be assured Wisconsin will provide no support for train service until Governor Walker is out of office.

 

[Ispolkom]

Why is there no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

This was a joke, right?

Wisconsin was part of a multistate agreement dating back decades to provide lots more, improved, Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-MSP service.

Governor Walker killed it because he hates trains. He spent government money for the purpose of killing it too -- spent more than it would have cost to operate the Madison train for ten years.

As it is, we can be assured Wisconsin will provide no support for train service until Governor Walker is out of office.

And there is no way on God's green earth that the Minnesota Legislature (regardless of which party controls it) will come up with money for a Twin Cities-Chicago train without Wisconsin's participation. Even *with* Wisconsin's participation, it's a hard sell, because it will be portrayed as benefiting the Twin Cities with nothing given to out-state Minnesota. I'd guess that you'd have an easier time selling a Twin Cities-Fargo train, and a much easier time selling a Twin Cities-Rochester train.

 

[jebr]

Why is there no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

This was a joke, right?

Wisconsin was part of a multistate agreement dating back decades to provide lots more, improved, Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-MSP service.

Governor Walker killed it because he hates trains. He spent government money for the purpose of killing it too -- spent more than it would have cost to operate the Madison train for ten years.

As it is, we can be assured Wisconsin will provide no support for train service until Governor Walker is out of office.

And there is no way on God's green earth that the Minnesota Legislature (regardless of which party controls it) will come up with money for a Twin Cities-Chicago train without Wisconsin's participation. Even *with* Wisconsin's participation, it's a hard sell, because it will be portrayed as benefiting the Twin Cities with nothing given to out-state Minnesota. I'd guess that you'd have an easier time selling a Twin Cities-Fargo train, and a much easier time selling a Twin Cities-Rochester train.

However, roughly half (or a little more) of Minnesota's population (and thus legislative power) is in the Twin Cities area. They could probably get it passed if Wisconsin was willing to assist, especially if they had it go to St. Cloud (or, at minimum, to the end of the Northstar line.)

 

[NW cannonball]

Why is there no additional service CHI-MSP? At least Wisconsin could provide some support.

This was a joke, right?

Wisconsin was part of a multistate agreement dating back decades to provide lots more, improved, Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison-MSP service.

Governor Walker killed it because he hates trains. He spent government money for the purpose of killing it too -- spent more than it would have cost to operate the Madison train for ten years.

As it is, we can be assured Wisconsin will provide no support for train service until Governor Walker is out of office.

And there is no way on God's green earth that the Minnesota Legislature (regardless of which party controls it) will come up with money for a Twin Cities-Chicago train without Wisconsin's participation. Even *with* Wisconsin's participation, it's a hard sell, because it will be portrayed as benefiting the Twin Cities with nothing given to out-state Minnesota. I'd guess that you'd have an easier time selling a Twin Cities-Fargo train, and a much easier time selling a Twin Cities-Rochester train.

Twin Cities to Fargo (maybe even to Grand Forks) train might work with early morning departure and evening return - like the old Red River. Getting the Northstar to run all the way to Saint Cloud without the bus transfer is also possible. Maybe those two ideas could be combined. Not much pax traffic GFK-FAR-MSP - might work if cheap enough.

Train service to Duluth - possible - the BNSF- would want a lot of track improvements. We had it before - but it'll cost to re-instate that service- freight traffic on that line is up. Duluth area might be political and financial supporters up to a point.

MSP to Rochester - seen postings with tech problems - route would be a political winner - but now the frequent flights and Jefferson Lines buses from MSP area and the shuttle from Amtrak at Winona - are all handling the Mayo traffic no problems no delays.

Politically, service to Rochester and the Mayo Clinic could be a winner, but the technical problems with parts of the route and the current good service on existing lines makes it unlikely.

Meanwhile, for the next few years, SPUD will have to survive on the EB, very good local transit connections, whatever dining attractions and local attractions. Now I see that the NHL has a contract dispute -- don't think the Energy Center will be much impacted - they will settle soon.

 

[Ispolkom]

However, roughly half (or a little more) of Minnesota's population (and thus legislative power) is in the Twin Cities area. They could probably get it passed if Wisconsin was willing to assist,

That would be true if the Twin Cities were a unified political force WRT to rail transportation, which it isn't. Suburban voters, who are the margin of victory between the two parties, aren't interested in transit. Look at Apple Valley's backing off of a skyway at the bus rapid transit station at 147th street, once it became apparent they'd have to pay for upkeep. Look at Anoka County's backing out of the Twin Cities-Duluth line.

Look at how hard it is to get anything going rail-wise in the Twin Cities, even the poisoned apple of Northstar commuter rail.

Rail to Chicago is going to be seen as a Minneapolis-St. Paul issue, not a Metro area one.

New rail frequencies from the Twin Cities to Chicago was always a hard row to hoe, and the present political position of rail in Wisconsin makes it, in my opinion, almost impossible.

I personally wish it were otherwise, but that doesn't matter.

 

[NW cannonball]

However, roughly half (or a little more) of Minnesota's population (and thus legislative power) is in the Twin Cities area. They could probably get it passed if Wisconsin was willing to assist,

That would be true if the Twin Cities were a unified political force WRT to rail transportation, which it isn't. Suburban voters, who are the margin of victory between the two parties, aren't interested in transit. Look at Apple Valley's backing off of a skyway at the bus rapid transit station at 147th street, once it became apparent they'd have to pay for upkeep. Look at Anoka County's backing out of the Twin Cities-Duluth line.

Look at how hard it is to get anything going rail-wise in the Twin Cities, even the poisoned apple of Northstar commuter rail.

Rail to Chicago is going to be seen as a Minneapolis-St. Paul issue, not a Metro area one.

New rail frequencies from the Twin Cities to Chicago was always a hard row to hoe, and the present political position of rail in Wisconsin makes it, in my opinion, almost impossible.

I personally wish it were otherwise, but that doesn't matter.

Unfortunately I have to agree - not much chance for more rail service to SPUD or anywhere in the Twin Cities any time soon. Another decade may make a lot of changes. But that will depend on so many factors - can't even guess.

Meanwhile - hoping the Saint Paul Union Depot renovation - with the light rail connection - works somewhat well in the short term - not betting money on it - seems possible.

 

[Russ]

Let's hear it for SPUD! I can hardly wait. I hope to be on that very first Amtrak Empire Builder to stop in the newly renovated beautiful Saint Paul Union Depot.

 

[NW cannonball]

Let's hear it for SPUD! I can hardly wait. I hope to be on that very first Amtrak Empire Builder to stop in the newly renovated beautiful Saint Paul Union Depot.

Me too.

According the the signs posted on the doors at SPUD - official opening is December 8.

Most of the doors are open now- people wandering about on the new escalators -- the headhouse restaurant in business.

But on the official December 8 opening date - what does it mean --

Some Metro Transit buses start running from near the depot. That is all.

Amtrak EB - sometime - maybe in a few months - hell - can't even tell from the Kellogg bridge if the Division Street switch is ok, or the signals.

Central Corridor light rail -- the station is almost finished outside of the front of SPUD -- but no service until a year from now.

Intercity bus -- maybe sometime soon.

And -- no place to park the CP Holiday train in Saint Paul -- they are skipping Saint Paul -- because nowhere to park - because -- the "station SPUD" is disconnected from any main line - and also has a few thousand yards of parking tracks that NO-ONE can use! So a few hundred community lose that -- what do we gain? -- So far -- gain zero.

Web sites of the perps? (AMTK - Metro transit - SPUD) - zero.

No Amtrak, no light rail, - a few local buses.

The Division Street turnout - there's a new signal but turned aside. No other possible connection to any main line in place as of now.

SPUD, right now, is a "redeveloped space" with a few restaurant customers -- possibly when downtown Saint Paulites learn that there's fairly cheap parking under the old tracks there will be some parking revenue --

Has no connection to any Class 1 railroad, and won't for at least a year

What I'm trying to say is ++

Sheesh -- !!

What on un-coordinated opening night.

I hoped for better -- what to do?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

What's an opening of a train station if no trains stop there? Seriously, do these guys just want publicity?

 

[NW cannonball]

What's an opening of a train station if no trains stop there? Seriously, do these guys just want publicity?

No, obviously. They (the various supporters of the SPUD) do want publicity, to support local rail transport -- light rail - commuter rail - intermodal - whatever LD rail the community can support. And also the rail terminal station. There is WAS and NYP - otherwhere there is any of the main stations on the Yamanote -- hopes for really really big synergy between transport hubs and shopping and whatever. Works for WAS, works real good for many places. May work for SPUD, ,more or less. Maybe not.

What I was trying to say was, the "opening" of SPUD has been un-coordinated. That's all.

SPUD will never be shinjuku - there's no 30 Meg persons to support it.

It might be a useful transport center with some good food.

Right now - there's good food but no transport.

Some significant transport will be there within a year or so.

What that might lead to neither you nor i nor anyone knows -- how oats, peas beans, and barley grows.