Suicide on the rails

[Dinker]

http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df/df1218...html#Locomotive

In a 2003 study the University of Cologne estimated that nearly 1000 suicides in Germany are carried out each year in a similar manner, whereby the person committing suicide intentionally walks or jumps into the path of an oncoming train. The German locomotive drivers union GDL stated through a spokesman that the emotional costs inflicted on its membership as well as on rescue workers, police and rail right-of-way workers by these suicides is enormous. Nearly 5% of all train drivers in Germany have been unintentional eyewitnesses to such suicides every year.

Is the number anywhere near that in the US? I've never even heard of this being a major issue since Anna Karenina.

 

[Guest]

it is very high in the US

 

[tahoejeff]

a google search for amtrak suicide brings up quite a few relevant pages. there was just one near milwaukee last week. the guy changed his mind at the last second and tried to avoid the 79mph train. drove himself to the hospital with a severely damaged arm.

you really gotta feel for the train crews that have to witness this stuff.

i was on the empire builder a few years ago that hit and killed a guy in a pickup truck, but i think that was just stupidity.

 

[Everydaymatters]

I was in the lounge car early one morning. There were only a couple of Amtrak - I don't know - mechanics or something in the car. The night before, the train had hit a car full of people. The Amtrak personnel were talking about how the engineer felt terrible about the accident and blamed himself. The Amtrak workers told the engineer that "he" didn't hit the car. The TRAIN hit the car.

It made me think a lot about how the engineer felt. It made me aware of how long it takes a train to stop when something or somebody is on the tracks.

Any suicide is bad. It leaves a whole lot of people feeling sad and bewildered. Suicide by rail leaves another person feeling sad and bewildered.

 

[MrFSS]

As a retired insurance adjuster, I have seen the aftermath of suicide by truck. People would pull into the path of a large dump truck on a narrow road at the last moment. The truck driver always needed counseling. Sometimes those impacts weren't sufficient enough to kill the person trying to die. But, the really bad part was, sometimes the family of the person taking their own life would bring a lawsuit against the truck driver for not doing more to avoid the accident. They usually didn't win, though.

 

[Windy City LSA]

It made me think a lot about how the engineer felt. It made me aware of how long it takes a train to stop when something or somebody is on the tracks.
Any suicide is bad. It leaves a whole lot of people feeling sad and bewildered. Suicide by rail leaves another person feeling sad and bewildered.

When I had the opportunity to ride with an engineer for about an hour, that is exactly what was going through my mind the entire time, especially as we approached every crossing. I felt tense as we approached each one, and with that vantage point, I could only imagine the terror of the engineer in that situation. From a distance, I assume before gates come down... you can see vehicles going through the crossing, and I think I was holding my breath! Another time I was up late chatting with an engineer and 2 conductors. They told horrific and graphic stories of accidents in the past. Although they were not disrespectful or flippant about it, they did tell the stories rather matter-of-factly...like it's just another day at the office. I almost think you have to have that attitude in order to get past it and carry on. I don't have the personality to deal with that sort of thing.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

And then there is suicide when the person jumps from a moving train at speed.

I remember a case of that on a hometown train pre-Amtrak. He was military. He evidently knew how to open the dutch doors, probably had traveled by train quite a bit. This was on an overnight Atlanta to Chicago train--he jumped in the early morning hours somewhere between Nashville, TN, and Evansville, IN.

 

[TransAtlantic]

There are a dozen or more suicides-by-train involving Amtrak each month, and many times more than that on freight railroads, so I'd guess that the total number each year in the US far exceeds that stated for the DB...

 

[George Harris]

Actually, the US number is less.

From the article: "In a 2003 study the University of Cologne estimated that nearly 1000 suicides in Germany are carried out each year in a similar manner, whereby the person committing suicide intentionally walks or jumps into the path of an oncoming train."

For comparison, go to safetydata.fra.dot.gov/officeofsafety/

This should give you a 161 page pdf document that basically folds, spindles, and mutilates statistics of accidents/incidents on or near any railroad in the US. It gives data by category, state, railroad company, and probably a few other ways. It does not list suicides as such. I have only begun to look at it.

Total fatalities all types for each year since 1993 vary between 1,279 down to 867 per year, with the most recent year in the table being 898 fatalaties in 2004. Again, this is ALL TYPES.

If we get it down to highway-rail and trespasser accidents, this should include all suicides in addition to general stupidity, carelessness, and being in the worng place at the wrong time. Within the same 1993 to 2004 time frame, we have

Traffic accident fatalities

Worst year, 1993, 626 deaths

Best year, 2003, 334 deaths

For 2004, 368 deaths

Tresspasser fatalities - again, not all suicides, but who knows percentage

Worst year, 2002, 540 deaths

Best year, 1996, 471 deaths

For 2004, 482 deaths

On train passenger fatalities - not just Amtrak, but all

Worst year, 1993, 49 deaths

Best year, 1995 0 deaths

For 2004, 3 deaths

That we should be in the same ballpark even though having a much higher population is not really surprising, as Germany has a lot of high frequency predicitable passenger trains. Outside areas with frequent commuter service, you might have to be on the track for hours before getting hit. Our heaviest freight volumes run a lot of their miles in very low population density areas.

"a dozen or more suicides-by-train involving Amtrak each month" seems highly unlikely given that the total all fatalities all causes all railroads averages around 80 per month of which around 30 are traffic fatalities and 40 are tresspassers. In the statistics "by railroad company" I am not sure wither this is by track owner or train operator. All fatalities all causes ascribed to Amtrak are in the 118 to 131 per year range, so that gives you about 10 per month, not all of which are suicides.

I am not trying to say it is not a problem, but let's not exaggerate. When your understanding of the problem is skewed or just plain wrong, thin your solutions will probably also be wrong.

Also, understatd that all road fatalities are on the order of about 40,000 per year, so getting too worked up about the 1,000 per year on the railroad, which is only 2.5% of that is an over reaction.

Doing things that make railroad operations more expensive and passenger service less available under the heading of safety is actually counterproductive to safety, as it drives people to the much more dangerous highways.

George

 

[frj1983]

I am not trying to say it is not a problem, but let's not exaggerate. When your understanding of the problem is skewed or just plain wrong, thin your solutions will probably also be wrong. Also, understatd that all road fatalities are on the order of about 40,000 per year, so getting too worked up about the 1,000 per year on the railroad, which is only 2.5% of that is an over reaction.

Doing things that make railroad operations more expensive and passenger service less available under the heading of safety is actually counterproductive to safety, as it drives people to the much more dangerous highways.

George

I agree with all you say George,

But I think the over-reaction happens because trains killing people seem to be more horrifying than car crashes, and the media seems to love to rush to these types of stories. And Once you have horrifying media stories, you have politicians speaking about what needs to be done. Unless it is a multiple car crash on the tollway that kills many people, the media(and other people in general) don't blink an eye. Does anyone remember how on fridays, National News Broadcasts would announce how many people had died in car accidents that week? It ceased many years ago, but I think it became "oh, ho hum........who cares!"

In the long run, you will never be able to stop those who wish to commit suicide, but I ALWAYS feel for the engineer when an accident happens! Lest that sound too stark, I also feel for the one who dies and his/her family.

(edited to fix quote -AmtrakWPK)

 

[jamesontheroad]

There have been many similar instances here in the UK. I chatted with an engineer once on board a 140mph London - Edinburgh GNER IC225 train. A colleague of his had been piloting a similar service several years back and hit someone at full pelt. He tells me that some operators train drivers not to hit the brakes if they're travelling above a certain speed: the consequences of a rapid deceleration above 100mph would not bear thinking about: upwards of four hundred passengers thrown about and against seats and tables in an attempt to save one life.

*j*

 

[Pagantom]

As a former Western Division LSA and AC, I cannot tell you how many times I have seen suicide by train in my career while traveling from LA to Seattle, Chicago, or New Orleans.. it is a tragedy that each crew must face, and one that haunts you for years.

I've seen everything from a guy who lie spread eagle face down to having to notify the conductor and police that an elderly couple opened an outer door in a sleeper car and jumped out (we think) over a bridge.

In one case in LA, gang members screwed a large "I" bolt into the center of the tie on the San Diego route and handcuffed someone they wanted dead to them.. I still remember how shook up the engineer was afterwards as he recounted how he tried to stop for someone he assumed was trying to pick something up off the center of the tie, and the look of terror on the helpless victims face.

Personally, I don't think the engineer was ever the same, and heard that he transfered to freight service.

 

[rtabern]

Yeah, I'm from Milwaukee, WI (and work for a TV station here)... we see that sorta thing several times a year here. I was actually at the station when that guy almost killed himself last week near the Illinois-Wisconsin border... with a Hiawatha train. The cops I talked to said he drove himself to the hospital, but they searched for 3 hours (and kept the train there) because they weren't finding anyone in the weeds along the tracks (it was dark too). I think last year, 2 14-year-old from our local high school in Oak Creek, WI commited suicide on the same line. I mean... HOW BAD can your life be at 14 that you would want to do that? I mean things can be bad in the teen years, but you have SO MUCH life ahead of you.

RTT

 

[George Harris]

I am well aware that among the worst parts of an on track suicide or even accidental death or road crossing death is the effect on the train crews. Intellectually you may know there was absolutely nothing you could have done to prevent it, but emotionally you are never the same.

During my brief railroad company employement, I was in the cab of the Humming Bird from Montgomery AL to Birmingham - 90 miles and 1h 50m. By the time I got off the train in Birmingham, I was so weak in the legs I could barely climb down the loco steps and stand on the platform. Even though it has been almost 40 years, I still see the near misses. There was one towm we went through that the engineer blew the horn louder and longer than anywhere else. Why? He had hit someone there 10 years previously and it still bothered him. One of our near misses was an elderly man with a cane who looked at us and then walked slowly across the track right in front of us. He was no more than three steps clear of the engine when we got even with him - at 70 mph. How long would he have been delayed by a 10 car passenger train?

George

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

I've said it before and I will say it again...Aside from suicide, stupidity, carelessness, drunkeness, beinig in too much of a hurry, etc, etc many people living today---several generations infact---have never actually INTERNALIZED what a train is.

They don't know how fast they go, they don't know they are going faster than it looks, they don't realize they can't stop quickly, they can't tell a ten car(or fewer) passenger train from a 100 car freight. They have lived lives entirely devoid of riding trains and not reazling how many goods are shipped on them by train---they jsut see trucks all the timie and think that is that.

To many people, a train is not even "there". A track is Just some funny thing to drive over on the road, maybe kind of like a speed bump, and be done with.

It is that, in addition to everything else already noted.

I got an early lesson in what George Harris was talking about in the previous post while on the Humming Bird. I watched the Georgian arrive late in Chattanooga one morning, the engineer was devasted, had to to be taken off--he had hit a car and killed a man just a few miles from the station. First time in my life to see somebody that white-as-a-ghost.

 

[frj1983]

Approximately 4 years ago,

While riding Metra's BNSF line into Chicago, my train struck a man who ran out onto the tracks and turned to face the train. I still remember the sickening sound of his body as it bumped underneath the train and the squeal of the train brakes. We sat there for an hour while waiting to be cleared for the rest of the run into Chicago. The Engineer was of course removed, the Crew was also white-faced, and the passengers were extremely quiet during the wait and the rest of the trip.

For me, the rest of the day was colored by that event...I can't even begin to imagine how the engineer felt!

In the meantime, I think Bill's message above is very true.

 

[AlanB]

They don't know how fast they go, they don't know they are going faster than it looks, they don't realize they can't stop quickly, they can't tell a ten car(or fewer) passenger train from a 100 car freight. They have lived lives entirely devoid of riding trains and not reazling how many goods are shipped on them by train---they jsut see trucks all the timie and think that is that.

It's not even just trains that people don't realize and understand the physics of. I've seen people doing similar, stupid things in front of large trucks too. Not understanding that they don't stop on a dime and can't swerve like a car.

 

[George Harris]

A lot of people seem to have developed an attitude that says, Nothing should ever be allowed to hurt me, and for some this is carried to the extreme that nothing should ever be allowed to inconvenience me.

This leads directly into a feeling that nothing should hurt me, and if something really does, it is somehow their fault, no matter what I was doing.

In some ways we have reached the point of living in a world with too much safety which has thereby reinforced those attitudes. Every potential danger, no matter how slight is supposed to be throughly explained to you as if you were a somewhat mentally slow three year old. Ever read the sidewall of a tire and compare it with what was there 50 years ago?

For trains, this is also aggravated by the almost complete dissapearance of railroad grade crossings from major highways and newer suburban areas. As Bill says, "many people living today---several generations infact---have never actually INTERNALIZED what a train is."

George

 

[frj1983]

A lot of people seem to have developed an attitude that says, Nothing should ever be allowed to hurt me, and for some this is carried to the extreme that nothing should ever be allowed to inconvenience me.
This leads directly into a feeling that nothing should hurt me, and if something really does, it is somehow their fault, no matter what I was doing.

In some ways we have reached the point of living in a world with too much safety which has thereby reinforced those attitudes. Every potential danger, no matter how slight is supposed to be throughly explained to you as if you were a somewhat mentally slow three year old. Ever read the sidewall of a tire and compare it with what was there 50 years ago?

For trains, this is also aggravated by the almost complete dissapearance of railroad grade crossings from major highways and newer suburban areas. As Bill says, "many people living today---several generations infact---have never actually INTERNALIZED what a train is."

George

While I agree with what you and Bill say George,

There are some things that still bother me, for instance: I may not have much experience with trains but somewhere along the way(especially in my driving career), I am going to be sitting by a Railroad Track watching a train go by. Some things have to be obvious:

1) Those engines and cars are pretty durn big

2) They tend to move pretty fast

3) My little car or even Hummer would stand NO Chance if I ended up in front of one

We were given brains and the ability to reason...I wish people would use their brains!

OK, I'm sure people are going to have some comments on what I just said: have at me!

 

[haolerider]

A lot of people seem to have developed an attitude that says, Nothing should ever be allowed to hurt me, and for some this is carried to the extreme that nothing should ever be allowed to inconvenience me.

This leads directly into a feeling that nothing should hurt me, and if something really does, it is somehow their fault, no matter what I was doing.

In some ways we have reached the point of living in a world with too much safety which has thereby reinforced those attitudes. Every potential danger, no matter how slight is supposed to be throughly explained to you as if you were a somewhat mentally slow three year old. Ever read the sidewall of a tire and compare it with what was there 50 years ago?

For trains, this is also aggravated by the almost complete dissapearance of railroad grade crossings from major highways and newer suburban areas. As Bill says, "many people living today---several generations infact---have never actually INTERNALIZED what a train is."

George

While I agree with what you and Bill say George,

There are some things that still bother me, for instance: I may not have much experience with trains but somewhere along the way(especially in my driving career), I am going to be sitting by a Railroad Track watching a train go by. Some things have to be obvious:

1) Those engines and cars are pretty durn big

2) They tend to move pretty fast

3) My little car or even Hummer would stand NO Chance if I ended up in front of one

We were given brains and the ability to reason...I wish people would use their brains!

OK, I'm sure people are going to have some comments on what I just said: have at me!

I don't think anyone is going to "go after you" for your comments. You are right on target. People seem to lose their minds when they are approaching a grade crossing and in an attempt to save a few minutes, they lose whatever time they had left on earth. People who would never even consider trying to cross a major interstate highway or even a busy in-town road, will drive around the crossing guard arms and find themselves in front of a massive piece of equipment - and then their families sue the railroad, the city, the state and whomever they can think of for failure to properly warn their deceased kin of the dangers of moving trains. I am constantly amazed.

 

[George Harris]

Some things have to be obvious:
1) Those engines and cars are pretty durn big

2) They tend to move pretty fast

3) My little car or even Hummer would stand NO Chance if I ended up in front of one

We were given brains and the ability to reason...I wish people would use their brains!

The ability of people to ignore the blindingly obvious is amazing. They remain convinced that somehow this big thing will never hurt them. A classic quote by a SCHOOL BUS DRIVER: "I don't know where the train came from. It must have fallen out of the sky." This statement was recorded in the NTSB report as being made after the bus she was driving had been hit at a road crossing where the track was straight for over a mile in the direction the train came from.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

There is probably some truth to the perspective issue. I have worked on ham radio antenna towers for close to 40 years. I once assisted at ground level in installing an equipment rack on a 2,000 foot commercial TV transmitting tower. Accustomed to working on small (up to 100 foot tall) ham radio towers, I stood at the base of the 2000' tower and asked about the small parabolic dish antenna I was looking at, and suggested it was about 30 feet up. It was actually 300 feet up. My mind couldn't scale properly, not having been up close to a tower that massive and that tall before. Watching an early C-5 Galaxy cargo jet flying around the Charleston, SC AFB, it looked to be flying way too slowly to stay in the air, but that was only because my mind wasn't handling the fact that it was so enormous an airplane that I perceived it to be flying a whole lot lower (and closer) that it actually was, hence my incorrect perception of how fast it was traveling. Perhaps it really is true that a lot of the people that contribute to their own premature demise by colliding with a train really don't have a clue of just how big, how heavy, how fast moving they are. Something obviously is not working properly upstairs. And if they are driving around downed gates or driving past flashing sawbucks, then I'm sorry but they really are suicidal idiots.