Sunset...good idea or great idea

[GP35]

I have an Idea that would allow Amtrak to add 1.7 million people to the Sunset Limited route, without building new track.

Amtrak leave Houston going NW to Hempstead then north to Texas A&M. Build a station there. Believe it or not the tracks cuts through the

middle of the campus. Then Valley Junction(Hearne) then over to Roger Devereau favorite stop, Rockdale, then Taylor then Round Rock then Austin.

The tracks are already there and ready. Because the Texas Eagle and Sunset would share the same stops at Austin and San Marcos,

those stops can be Discharge only stops to save time. Sunset would have to leave NOL 3 hours earlier. The east bound train could make

SAS and San Marcos Discharge only stops leaving the Texas Eagle coaches in Austin.

This reroute could give Houston and Austin direct service. Then imagine the students at A&M riding going to either Houston or Austin for the weekend.

 

[the_traveler]

Sounds like it would make sense! (That means that it will never happen! )

I rode most of that suggested route on UP3985 a few years back (going from Ft Worth to Houston via Rockdale and the Texas A&M campus). I think it would work. And it will get the SL off part of the Sunset Route. (That should make UP happy! )

 

[had8ley]

And then LSU in Baton Rouge would want service, then Brown , then NYS at Oneita etc., etc., etc.

 

[GP35]

And then LSU in Baton Rouge would want service, then Brown , then NYS at Oneita etc., etc., etc.

LSU could have service, reroute Amtrak to BTR then west via the Beaumont Sub. That would mean losing Lafayette and Lake Chuck.

OR build that 25 mile long track between Lafayette and Opelusas.

 

[VT Hokie]

Believe it or not the tracks cuts through themiddle of the campus.

Yeah, when I visited Texas A&M back in 1992 there was an Amtrak station there.

 

[the_traveler]

Believe it or not the tracks cuts through themiddle of the campus.

Yeah, when I visited Texas A&M back in 1992 there was an Amtrak station there.

Back in the 80's and 90's (IIRC), there was actually an Amtrak route from Dallas-Houston, and later from (IIRC) Longview-Houston, that stopped at College Station.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

And then LSU in Baton Rouge would want service, then Brown , then NYS at Oneita etc., etc., etc.

Do you mean Brown University in Providence, RI? A quick look at Google Maps seems to indicate that the closest track to Brown University is right about where the existing Providence Amtrak / MBTA station is.

 

[GP35]

Leave NOL 7:55 AM

Beaumont 2:43 PM

Houston 4:28 pm there is no reason to pad 2:30 between BMT and Hou.

lv HOU 5:00 pm

Texas A&M 5:53 pm

Round Rock 7:56 pm

Austin 8:20 pm

San Marcos 9:02 pm

SAS 11:02 pm no reason to schedule more than 2 hours between SAS and San Marcos with the tracks being doubled.

Amtrak could make a lot of money on coach service in this corridor.

 

[JohnF]

Leave NOL 7:55 AMBeaumont 2:43 PM

Houston 4:28 pm there is no reason to pad 2:30 between BMT and Hou.

lv HOU 5:00 pm

Texas A&M 5:53 pm

Round Rock 7:56 pm

Austin 8:20 pm

San Marcos 9:02 pm

SAS 11:02 pm no reason to schedule more than 2 hours between SAS and San Marcos with the tracks being doubled.

Amtrak could make a lot of money on coach service in this corridor.

This is a bad idea from the get go. We already have one train, the Eagle, that is routed all over the place to service every possible city between SA and St Louis. Why mess up the Sunset. Oh, and it's 90+ miles from Houston to CS. I have driven it a few thousand times. Better check out that timing. You have got it averaging about 100mph. And the old MP route from spring is clogged up with traffic and the H&TC/SP route through Hempstead is all slow track. A much better idea is to just fix the Sunsets schedule on it's present route and have it be an evening train from Houston to SA westbound and a morning train eastbound. If you want to serve all these other cities, how about some corridor service on the 'triangle' between Houston, Dallas/Ft Worth, San Antonio, Houston. It's long overdue. Texas A&M by the way, wants to move that track away from the campus so eventually your idea would not serve the school anyway. The best track for Houston to Dallas is the old B-RI track through North Zulch, the route of the old Sam Houston Zephyr. It's shorter and faster. You would serve CS with a bus connection. There is no way a train could go from Houston to Austin through Round Rock in three hours and 20 minutes. With current traffic and track conditions, it would take two hours just to get to CS, another 30 minutes or more to Valley Jct and another two hours to Austin.

One change that would benefit the Sunset and Louisiana is to route the Sunset from Beaumont through Baton Rouge on the UP(former MP). This would eliminate all that slow running through the bayou country that generates little traffic and finally give Louisiana service between Baton Rouge, the capitol, and New Orleans.

 

[GP35]

This is a bad idea from the get go. We already have one train, the Eagle, that is routed all over the place to service every possible city between SA and St Louis. Why mess up the Sunset. Oh, and it's 90+ miles from Houston to CS. I have driven it a few thousand times. Better check out that timing. You have got it averaging about 100mph. And the old MP route from spring is clogged up with traffic and the H&TC/SP route through Hempstead is all slow track. A much better idea is to just fix the Sunsets schedule on it's present route and have it be an evening train from Houston to SA westbound and a morning train eastbound. If you want to serve all these other cities, how about some corridor service on the 'triangle' between Houston, Dallas/Ft Worth, San Antonio, Houston. It's long overdue. Texas A&M by the way, wants to move that track away from the campus so eventually your idea would not serve the school anyway. The best track for Houston to Dallas is the old B-RI track through North Zulch, the route of the old Sam Houston Zephyr. It's shorter and faster. You would serve CS with a bus connection. There is no way a train could go from Houston to Austin through Round Rock in three hours and 20 minutes. With current traffic and track conditions, it would take two hours just to get to CS, another 30 minutes or more to Valley Jct and another two hours to Austin.
One change that would benefit the Sunset and Louisiana is to route the Sunset from Beaumont through Baton Rouge on the UP(former MP). This would eliminate all that slow running through the bayou country that generates little traffic and finally give Louisiana service between Baton Rouge, the capitol, and New Orleans.

John you missed the point. The point is to get Houston and Austin direct service. They could move the track in College Station, so, Texas A&M was a bonus.Yes, I was a bit generous on the time table.

 

[had8ley]

And then LSU in Baton Rouge would want service, then Brown , then NYS at Oneita etc., etc., etc.

Do you mean Brown University in Providence, RI? A quick look at Google Maps seems to indicate that the closest track to Brown University is right about where the existing Providence Amtrak / MBTA station is.

Sorrry;

I meant Williams College. I know there is no pax service there...

 

[JohnF]

This is a bad idea from the get go. .

John you missed the point. The point is to get Houston and Austin direct service. They could move the track in College Station, so, Texas A&M was a bonus.Yes, I was a bit generous on the time table.

Yes I know, but it's 160 or so miles driving and takes less that 3 hours. By SW airlines it's less than an hour. The rail route you used is around 210 miles and 5 hours. The only other direct route left to Austin is the old Katy line through Smithville and San Marcos. It's unsignalled and slow. The most direct route was the SP(H&TC) route west from Hempstead abandoned in the 60's. Personally I don't think Austin generates enough traffic to ever(well ever is a long time...but in our lifetime) get direct train service from Houston and the Sunset would only provide three times a week service on an unreliable time keeping schedule. The most Austinites can ever hope for is a corridor connection through San Antonio.

 

[GP35]

This is a bad idea from the get go. .

John you missed the point. The point is to get Houston and Austin direct service. They could move the track in College Station, so, Texas A&M was a bonus.Yes, I was a bit generous on the time table.

Yes I know, but it's 160 or so miles driving and takes less that 3 hours. By SW airlines it's less than an hour. The rail route you used is around 210 miles and 5 hours. The only other direct route left to Austin is the old Katy line through Smithville and San Marcos. It's unsignalled and slow. The most direct route was the SP(H&TC) route west from Hempstead abandoned in the 60's. Personally I don't think Austin generates enough traffic to ever(well ever is a long time...but in our lifetime) get direct train service from Houston and the Sunset would only provide three times a week service on an unreliable time keeping schedule. The most Austinites can ever hope for is a corridor connection through San Antonio.

Ok, lets say 5 hours. I'll take it. Leave NOL 5 hours earlier at 6:55 am. Houston a gets train at a much better time, 4:30. Sunset gets 1.7 million more potential

riders. Ok, eastbound. Houston gets a 11 am train, excellent. It works and works very well.

I met a man traveling from Beaumont to Sacramento. He could have flew or driven. A another man was asking me could he take the bus to Austin to avoid that

8 hours by train to SAS then AUS. Just because you wouldn't John doesn't mean others wouldn't either.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

You are off your rocker. The Sunset takes 48 hours to do what can be done in 39. Lets get it to do it in 53 hours, now, just to add a city that is already indirectly connected to it! Also, I noticed that the Crescent doesn't seem to serve Pittsburgh. Lets also redirect that train through Pittsburgh. It makes about as much sense as what you are proposing.

 

[GP35]

You are off your rocker. The Sunset takes 48 hours to do what can be done in 39. Lets get it to do it in 53 hours, now, just to add a city that is already indirectly connected to it! Also, I noticed that the Crescent doesn't seem to serve Pittsburgh. Lets also redirect that train through Pittsburgh. It makes about as much sense as what you are proposing.

Here comes the clouds and rain, again.

 

[AlanB]

You are off your rocker. The Sunset takes 48 hours to do what can be done in 39. Lets get it to do it in 53 hours, now, just to add a city that is already indirectly connected to it! Also, I noticed that the Crescent doesn't seem to serve Pittsburgh. Lets also redirect that train through Pittsburgh. It makes about as much sense as what you are proposing.

Here comes the clouds and rain, again.

Well you did ask if it was a good idea in your topic title. The man is entitled to his opinion and he voiced it. Sorry!

Personally I don't see it as a good idea either. The far better idea was what Amtrak had laid out in it's Network Growth Strategy several years ago. That would have seen it going from Houston directly north to Dallas/Ft. Worth, and then west through Abilene to El Paso.

 

[GP35]

You are off your rocker. The Sunset takes 48 hours to do what can be done in 39. Lets get it to do it in 53 hours, now, just to add a city that is already indirectly connected to it! Also, I noticed that the Crescent doesn't seem to serve Pittsburgh. Lets also redirect that train through Pittsburgh. It makes about as much sense as what you are proposing.

Here comes the clouds and rain, again.

Well you did ask if it was a good idea in your topic title. The man is entitled to his opinion and he voiced it. Sorry!

Personally I don't see it as a good idea either. The far better idea was what Amtrak had laid out in it's Network Growth Strategy several years ago. That would have seen it going from Houston directly north to Dallas/Ft. Worth, and then west through Abilene to El Paso.

No, I ask if it was a good or great idea. Without a doubt, a great Idea. Austin would have 2 trains and a direct link to Houston.

 

[JohnF]

Well, Austin, Dallas, lets route it through OKC and Brownsville and Lubbock, and maybe Denver too. I would be happy if Amtrak would just restore the pre 2005 schedule and get UP to run it on time. Lets do that first, then start running it daily and restore service to Orlando Florida maybe before we start on these far out schemes to servce every city in the SW. The New Mexico people want to divert it to Las Cruces too. One LD train just can't do everything. Someday Amtrak and the State need to get serious about service in Texas and the Southwest and put on more corridor trains to connect with their LD trains.

 

[GP35]

Well, Austin, Dallas, lets route it through OKC and Brownsville and Lubbock, and maybe Denver too. I would be happy if Amtrak would just restore the pre 2005 schedule and get UP to run it on time. Lets do that first, then start running it daily and restore service to Orlando Florida maybe before we start on these far out schemes to servce every city in the SW. The New Mexico people want to divert it to Las Cruces too. One LD train just can't do everything. Someday Amtrak and the State need to get serious about service in Texas and the Southwest and put on more corridor trains to connect with their LD trains.

Nobody can make an arguement without exaggerating. John I did some checking, the Eureka Sub is not a heavly travel line. Maybe

6 north bound manifest trains per day and bunch of industrial switching between Houston and Hempstead. Without upgrades the Sunset would be limited

to 55 mph to CS.

Here is a map for the forum to see for themselves if my plan equates to running the Sunset to Lubbock or Denver.

The red line is the current Sunset route. The black line is my plan. I think its worth adding 1.7 million people. The circle cities

are the exaggerated efforts being compared to my plan.

 

[MrEd]

I don't see how its possible to get the train to denver under this plan.

 

[GP35]

I don't see how its possible to get the train to denver under this plan.

I dont know either. My plan would only require the Sunset to go 90 addition miles compared to the current route.

90 miles for 1.7 million people is a great deal.

 

[JohnF]

I don't see how its possible to get the train to denver under this plan.

I dont know either. My plan would only require the Sunset to go 90 addition miles compared to the current route.

90 miles for 1.7 million people is a great deal.

how about getting the train back into Phoenix first. The population there is between 4 and 5 million. How about serving San Antonio at a decent hour. Population there is 2+ million and it draws about 25 million tourist a year and how about serving Houston at a time other than 5:50am eastbound, population 5 million, how about restoring service to Florida, Orlando draws 50 million tourist a year. How about daily service? What is so important about Austin????????????????????????????

 

[GP35]

I don\'t see how its possible to get the train to denver under this plan.

I dont know either. My plan would only require the Sunset to go 90 addition miles compared to the current route.

90 miles for 1.7 million people is a great deal.

how about getting the train back into Phoenix first. The population there is between 4 and 5 million. How about serving San Antonio at a decent hour. Population there is 2+ million and it draws about 25 million tourist a year and how about serving Houston at a time other than 5:50am eastbound, population 5 million, how about restoring service to Florida, Orlando draws 50 million tourist a year. How about daily service? What is so important about Austin????????????????????????????

I told you....The tracks are already there, the current trainsets can be used, the east bound train would arrive in Houston at 11:30 pm and west bound

in Houston at 4:30 pm.

I want Phoenix too. Where were you when I suggested a .10 cent ticket raise for rebuilding the gap in the line west of Phoenix.

I want Florida too.

I want daily too.

However none of those things are possible right now. My plan is possible right now. Amtrak says yes, UP says yes, the trains can start Sunday morning.

 

[JohnF]

You are off your rocker. The Sunset takes 48 hours to do what can be done in 39. Lets get it to do it in 53 hours, now, just to add a city that is already indirectly connected to it! Also, I noticed that the Crescent doesn't seem to serve Pittsburgh. Lets also redirect that train through Pittsburgh. It makes about as much sense as what you are proposing.

I think I agree with this this guy. Good luck.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

There is NO reason other than Amtrak's own stupid, obstinate, pigheaded intransigence that Sunset is not running to ORL right now. They continue to hold the Southern Transcon Route hostage, hoping for a ransom payment by LA, MS, AL, and FL. Their "reasons" for non-resumption are just so much bull manure. They have the same equipment as when it ran pre-Katrina, and the useless excuse of non-restored stations was and continues to be pure hogwash. There are quite a few Amtrak "station stops" that are simply an area of flat ground by the tracks where they can drop off or pick up passengers - no station, no personnel, no baggage handling. Anybody who goes along with the "not possible" resumption of Sunset to ORL is simply swallowing hogwash, and I have a couple of slightly used bridges, and some just slightly damp land to sell you.

In point of fact, with the currently much improved OTP of Sunset into NOL, the rest of the route into ORL would likely be much better OTP now than it was pre-Katrina. And it would be running on a lot of new rail, which CSX did an amazing job of doing post-Katrina. If you printed out Amtrak's continuing "excuses" for not resuming Sunset to ORL and shredded them and spread them on your garden, it would probably make pretty good fertilizer.