Sunset Limited Boarded by Border Patrol Agents

[vagabond]

No big deal, but today (12/9/2008) shortly after entering Louisiana, the New Orleans bound Sunset Limited was stopped and boarded by Border Patrol agents . They went through each car asking each passenger their citizenship. I’ve been on enough long distance Amtrak trains to know that coming to a stop for no apparent reason is somewhat normal, but this was a first for me.

Also a first: crossing the Mississippi River on the Huey P Long Bridge. That was kind of scary as we slowly rolled at about 10 mph swaying left and right. Several for my sleeper car neighbors felt nervous too..

 

[had8ley]

No big deal, but today (12/9/2008) shortly after entering Louisiana, the New Orleans bound Sunset Limited was stopped and boarded by Border Patrol agents . They went through each car asking each passenger their citizenship. I’ve been on enough long distance Amtrak trains to know that coming to a stop for no apparent reason is somewhat normal, but this was a first for me.
Also a first: crossing the Mississippi River on the Huey P Long Bridge. That was kind of scary as we slowly rolled at about 10 mph swaying left and right. Several for my sleeper car neighbors felt nervous too..

The speed limit for both freight and pax trains is 20 mph on the Huey P. Long. It might have seemed like 10 mph or there might have been some slow orders out on the bridge. We had some rough weather come through today so that might explain the rocking. You should have ridden the Crescent before they repaired the Lake Pontchatrain bridge; at 10 mph you felt like you'd never make the other side of the lake.

 

[access bob]

No big deal, but today (12/9/2008) shortly after entering Louisiana, the New Orleans bound Sunset Limited was stopped and boarded by Border Patrol agents . They went through each car asking each passenger their citizenship. I’ve been on enough long distance Amtrak trains to know that coming to a stop for no apparent reason is somewhat normal, but this was a first for me.
Also a first: crossing the Mississippi River on the Huey P Long Bridge. That was kind of scary as we slowly rolled at about 10 mph swaying left and right. Several for my sleeper car neighbors felt nervous too..

The speed limit for both freight and pax trains is 20 mph on the Huey P. Long. It might have seemed like 10 mph or there might have been some slow orders out on the bridge. We had some rough weather come through today so that might explain the rocking. You should have ridden the Crescent before they repaired the Lake Pontchatrain bridge; at 10 mph you felt like you'd never make the other side of the lake.

I was on the Crecent when one of the dining car stewarts opened the door window and started throwing old bread to the fish, the Fish were able to keep up with the train, either fast fish, or slow train. apparently this was a routine because the fish sure knew to swim up to this one. crossing the lake at sunset has to be one of the most beautiful sights I've seen from a train.

Bob

 

[sweet tea]

i've seen the border patrol routine on the empire builder. i think we were in north dakota at the time. (naturally, a certain amount of hassling of the brown guy, who'd lived in north dakota for something like 25 years. the actual foreigner on the train was from ukraine, so no worries there....)

 

[amtrakwolverine]

were they looking for someone. why would they board a train that does not cross the boarder either canada or mexico.

 

[Crescent Mark]

were they looking for someone. why would they board a train that does not cross the boarder either canada or mexico.

Just to check for illegal immigrants on the train I'm sure. They were possibly tipped off or it was possibly random. The southern border is pretty insecure and has quite a bit of illegals coming over, so who knows.

The time I rode over the Lake Ponchartain bridge, it was in a thunderstorm. We were going pretty slow as it POURED. I was in the last coach and I remember looking out the window and thinking that we were only what seemed like 2-3 ft above the water, heh. The lady across from us in coach pulled her curtain over the window and bent over with her head down. I enjoyed standing in the vestibule at the end of the train watching it rain as well as keep an eye on the light from the train that was behind us. Pretty cool experience, but wow it took a dang good amount of time to get over that bridge.

 

[Montanan]

No big deal, but today (12/9/2008) shortly after entering Louisiana, the New Orleans bound Sunset Limited was stopped and boarded by Border Patrol agents . They went through each car asking each passenger their citizenship. I’ve been on enough long distance Amtrak trains to know that coming to a stop for no apparent reason is somewhat normal, but this was a first for me.
Also a first: crossing the Mississippi River on the Huey P Long Bridge. That was kind of scary as we slowly rolled at about 10 mph swaying left and right. Several for my sleeper car neighbors felt nervous too..

I think that's a pretty routine thing for the Sunset. The last time I rode it, the Border Patrol did a sweep of the train at Del Rio, Texas, and when I talked to the crew about it they said it happened almost every trip.

 

[sweet tea]

now that i think on it, the EB sweep was probably in montana -- wherever we were, i remember that the canadian border was actually very close, so it didn't seem completely random.

 

[MattW]

Far as I'm concerned border patrol's got no danged business harassing a train that didn't cross a border. Nor do they have a right to their 100-mile zone from the borders where they can do whatever they darn well please (including violate the Constitution).

If there's a question of citizenship, check the people's ID. Wait, don't check citizenship when you get an ID? Hmm, that's a problem.

 

[spacecadet]

now that i think on it, the EB sweep was probably in montana -- wherever we were, i remember that the canadian border was actually very close, so it didn't seem completely random.

My wife, who is a permanent resident (with a green card) was almost detained off the train in Havre, Montana, by an overzealous border patrol agent. She had all her ID and papers with her, so I didn't think anything of letting her go off by herself for a few minutes on the long stop. But the train almost left without her (with me on it) because of this jerk. He had no reason whatsoever to detain her. She's Japanese, not even from a country known for exporting illegal immigrants. It was only some of our fellow coach passengers who recognized her and saw what was happening that came to her aid and managed to get him to let her go in time.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Far as I'm concerned border patrol's got no danged business harassing a train that didn't cross a border. Nor do they have a right to their 100-mile zone from the borders where they can do whatever they darn well please (including violate the Constitution).

Have you shared your thoughts with your Congresspeople lately?

 

[sweet tea]

now that i think on it, the EB sweep was probably in montana -- wherever we were, i remember that the canadian border was actually very close, so it didn't seem completely random.

My wife, who is a permanent resident (with a green card) was almost detained off the train in Havre, Montana, by an overzealous border patrol agent. She had all her ID and papers with her, so I didn't think anything of letting her go off by herself for a few minutes on the long stop. But the train almost left without her (with me on it) because of this jerk. He had no reason whatsoever to detain her. She's Japanese, not even from a country known for exporting illegal immigrants. It was only some of our fellow coach passengers who recognized her and saw what was happening that came to her aid and managed to get him to let her go in time.

ugh! i hope you're shared YOUR thoughts with your congress critter.

i think our stop was havre, too, but nothing as bad as that, that i recall.

 

[wayman]

i think our stop was havre, too, but nothing as bad as that, that i recall.

Guess I lucked out on both of my EB trips this year--no border patrol hassle at all.

Going back to the Ponchartain and Huey P Long Bridges... it could be worse. They could stop the train for a border patrol sweep on the bridge. "You, you're here illegally. We have to remove you from the train. Follow us to the door." "But... but we're on a bridge!" *SPLASH* And then the fish gather 'round, nibble nibble nibble... oh, the humanity!

 

[sechs]

The southern border is pretty insecure and has quite a bit of illegals coming over, so who knows.

At least it has a fence in some places. You can just walk across hundreds of miles of our northern border. And I'm sure that there are many Canadians here illegally, but few seem to care.

 

[Kevin L.]

At least it has a fence in some places. You can just walk across hundreds of miles of our northern border. And I'm sure that there are many Canadians here illegally, but few seem to care.

I'm sure there are many illegal Americans in Canada since I've crossed the border a plethora of times and never even had my passport looked at. Most of the time I don't even have to take it out, they just ask if I have one, and I say yes, and then it's over the line and into the more progressive great white north.

Maybe ridiculous taxing keeps the illegal immigration problem in Canada at bay...I'm sure most people from South of the Border don't even realize Canada is there, as a fair number of Americans certainly don't.

Border Patrol already can't shoot at illegal immigrants, and detaining them unleashes a torrent of lawsuits against them. They are a dog without teeth. Taking away their 100 mile zone would be akin to breaking the dog's legs. At that point, why not just put the dog down? Maybe the border patrol agent who was harassing your asiatic spouse couldn't deal with the frustration of not being able to do a darn thing and was venting that frustration after watching the History Channel that day?

I think there are better things to inform our Congressmen of...if you can get hold of them.

(EDIT--progressive by the original pre-2008 dictionary definition, as it was brought to my attention that "progressive" doesn't mean what I intended it to mean.)

 

[Ispolkom]

The southern border is pretty insecure and has quite a bit of illegals coming over, so who knows.

At least it has a fence in some places. You can just walk across hundreds of miles of our northern border. And I'm sure that there are many Canadians here illegally, but few seem to care.

Not to fear, the Air Force will soon be patrolling the border with Predator drones.

I hope they don't light up any Norwegian batchelor farmers with Hellfire missiles.

 

[spacecadet]

ugh! i hope you're shared YOUR thoughts with your congress critter.

I normally do in cases like that, so I probably did but I don't specifically remember. I'm from New York so my congresspeople were already on my side anyway, they don't need convincing. But I was pretty angry about it and I do remember writing to Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer about various immigration issues relating to my wife at various different points. So I probably included it in a litany of complaints I sent at some point.

Hillary Clinton's actually really good about sending responses too, that make it sound as if somebody's actually reading the stuff she gets. Her staff actually respond to the issues raised. I never heard back from Schumer about anything that I recall.

 

[jamesontheroad]

I was woken late one night, possibly at Buffalo, while travelling from Schenectady to Chicago on the Lake Shore Limited. Two Homeland Security agents were trawling the entire train, and escorted away a gentleman sat directly across from me in coach. He had overstayed a temporary residency visa and was frogmarched away. I can only presume that the officers were either acting on specific information or had overzealous targets to meet - because once he'd been arrested they stopped interrogating the passengers for ID. For all we knew, the next coach could have been filled with illegal immigrants, but they weren't interested after they found this man.

It was one of the most unsettling moments during all my travels in the US. Like all border guards, the officers' attitude towards the passengers were of immediate suspicion, phrasing questions as if we were already presumed guilty of some unspecified misdemeanour.

Edit: Now I remember. I subsequently wrote about the trip and the incident here: http://jamesbrownontheroad.wordpress.com/2...09/18/train-49/

 

[spacecadet]

It was one of the most unsettling moments during all my travels in the US. Like all border guards, the officers' attitude towards the passengers were of immediate suspicion, phrasing questions as if we were already presumed guilty of some unspecified misdemeanour.

Yeah, that's what really made me mad about my wife's situation. The agent kept trying to get her to go back to the police station with him (I don't know if that's the phrase he actually used, but he wanted her to go with him to some office either at the train station or the police station). Why? She was just wandering around the Havre station like everybody else on the train, including me - I just happened to be up taking photos of the engines while she was somewhere near our car. If anything, I was the one acting more suspiciously. It is ridiculous that these guys think they can just pull people off trains for no reason, simply because they're not in the company of a white person and happen to look "foreign". All her papers were in order. She's a permanent resident, which grants her all the same rights as a citizen except the right to vote. This guy had no right to try to detain her.

It makes me angry just thinking about it again now. It made me not want to ever go back to Montana, no offense to anyone who lives there. But my guess is a big part of the problem is that this guy was not used to seeing non-whites in rural Montana.

 

[AlanB]

At least it has a fence in some places. You can just walk across hundreds of miles of our northern border. And I'm sure that there are many Canadians here illegally, but few seem to care.

I'm sure there are many illegal Americans in Canada since I've crossed the border a plethora of times and never even had my passport looked at. Most of the time I don't even have to take it out, they just ask if I have one, and I say yes, and then it's over the line and into the more progressive great white north.

That's because up until two years ago, one did not need a passport to cross the border into Canada. Presently one needs a passport now if one is flying to Canada. Until June, at least for the moment, one still does not need a passport for a ground crossing be it train, car, or bus. After June, if the current plans aren't changed, one will either need a passport or a special photo id card to cross the border.

Border Patrol already can't shoot at illegal immigrants, and detaining them unleashes a torrent of lawsuits against them. They are a dog without teeth. Taking away their 100 mile zone would be akin to breaking the dog's legs. At that point, why not just put the dog down? Maybe the border patrol agent who was harassing your asiatic spouse couldn't deal with the frustration of not being able to do a darn thing and was venting that frustration after watching the History Channel that day?

Yeah, makes perfect sense to me. They already failed to do their jobs, namely stopping the persons from get over the border in the first place. So now lets inconvienence thousands of citizens, drive up Amtrak's costs by causing delays, all in the hope that we catch one illegal. I'd probably have less of a problem if at least they'd board at one station and do their work while the train is in motion, and then detrain at the next station or even a crossing along the way. But to delay 300+ people per train on multiple trains daily in the vain hope of catching one person is insanity.

 

[AlanB]

I was woken late one night, possibly at Buffalo, while travelling from Schenectady to Chicago on the Lake Shore Limited. Two Homeland Security agents were trawling the entire train, and escorted away a gentleman sat directly across from me in coach. He had overstayed a temporary residency visa and was frogmarched away. I can only presume that the officers were either acting on specific information or had overzealous targets to meet - because once he'd been arrested they stopped interrogating the passengers for ID. For all we knew, the next coach could have been filled with illegal immigrants, but they weren't interested after they found this man.

No, they routinely search the LSL at stations between Buffalo and SDY, so I rather doubt that they were acting on any info. They just got lucky and had justified their paychecks by catching someone, so they left after that.

 

[AlanB]

It was one of the most unsettling moments during all my travels in the US. Like all border guards, the officers' attitude towards the passengers were of immediate suspicion, phrasing questions as if we were already presumed guilty of some unspecified misdemeanour.

Yeah, that's what really made me mad about my wife's situation. The agent kept trying to get her to go back to the police station with him (I don't know if that's the phrase he actually used, but he wanted her to go with him to some office either at the train station or the police station). Why? She was just wandering around the Havre station like everybody else on the train, including me - I just happened to be up taking photos of the engines while she was somewhere near our car. If anything, I was the one acting more suspiciously. It is ridiculous that these guys think they can just pull people off trains for no reason, simply because they're not in the company of a white person and happen to look "foreign". All her papers were in order. She's a permanent resident, which grants her all the same rights as a citizen except the right to vote. This guy had no right to try to detain her.

Sadly it's not that they "think" that they can, if you are within 100 miles of a US border, then under our current laws they have the right to do that if you can't prove that you're here legally. It's always been that way, but they've really stepped up inspections under the current administration.

It makes me angry just thinking about it again now. It made me not want to ever go back to Montana, no offense to anyone who lives there. But my guess is a big part of the problem is that this guy was not used to seeing non-whites in rural Montana.

I wouldn't blame Montana. Trust me it could just as easily happened to her on the LSL or the Sunset Limited two other trains that are routinely boarded by agents.

 

[spacecadet]

Sadly it's not that they "think" that they can, if you are within 100 miles of a US border, then under our current laws they have the right to do that if you can't prove that you're here legally.

As I said, she had proof with her that she was here legally, which she showed to the agent. Wasn't good enough for him.

And not just here legally, but a permanent resident, which is a special status that basically means "hands off" as far as immigration issues go. Once you have that status, you are supposed to be treated as if you are a citizen by customs and border patrol. It is very hard to get that status and you have to go through a ton of paperwork and waiting to get it, so there's nothing any border patrol agent can learn about you that the USCIS doesn't know already.

 

[VentureForth]

I had residency in Japan and was never hassled about my citizenship (not exactly hard to notice that I was not a native). But I was warned to never ever EVER travel without my alien registration. Boy, you leave that behind and you're in deep natto.

I'm sorry your wife got hassled. Please write their supervisor and suggest a re-education training program for this overzealous cop.

 

[Ispolkom]

I'm sorry your wife got hassled. Please write their supervisor and suggest a re-education training program for this overzealous cop.

And write to your congressman about this. Most are very good with constituent service, and their offices often have better resources to deal with the federal bureaucracy.