Sunset Limited Coming Back?

[JohnF]

The Sunset is well patronized considering it only runs three times a week, serves San Antonio in the middle of the night, stops at a woefully pitiful little station in Houston that is hidden behind the main Post Office, stops in Beaumont where there is no station at all, just a concrete slab and never runs on time.

I guess the answer is:

Pass a law requiring Amtrak have schedules which limit stations stops to only the convenient hours of between 9am and 5pm, reguardless of now long the route might be.

Pass a law requiring all cites with passenger rail stops spend a minimum of $85 million on new/upgraded passenger station every 5 years, and state DOTs build limited access super-highways that terminate at those stations.

This is a stupid answer to a complex question. I have worked the timetable many times and even with the padding Amtrak added it is possible to serve the major population centers at something close to a reasonable time. The train traverses over 2000 miles but only hits 6 major population centers - LA, Phoenix(Maricopa), El Paso, San Antonio, Houston and New Orleans. It is easily possible to fix the schedule or at least restore it to it's pre-Katrina timing. But Amtrak does nothing. They still run the train as if it goes to Orlando with the equipment laying over in NO for three days before returning west. In LA they do not turn the train same day but lay it over requiring an extra set there. Hence four sets of equipment are required to maintain this three times a week schedule. It only takes five sets to run daily. There are times when two sets are in NO at the same time...one just arriving in the evening with one waiting to leave the next morning. It's just poor management on Amtrak's part. They just don't consider the Sunset Limited a train they want to keep. It's poor performance(their words) is due to their neglect. The sad part is if they want to restore the service to Florida, the equipment is just sitting in NO doing nothing. It would not take any additional train sets, just crews. Amtrak has made up it's mind that it doesn't want to go back to Florida and only an act of Congress will change that. Lets hope we can at least keep the rest of the route.

 

[zoltan]

Yes I was aware of the Houston section of the TE. I even rode it once. It took over 6 hours to negotiate the 265 miles. Amtrak spent millions of dollars to rehab the old Texas Central(SP) route to Dallas, ran the train for a few years then dropped it. That route had not seen passenger trains since 1958. Originally the SP's sunbeam took 4hrs25min to negotiate that distance. There is a much shorter route using the Burlington-Rock Island route, now BNSF, that is only 240 miles long. This route is the one that lasted until 1965. This route once had 4hr service between the two cities. The lobby groups like TXARP down here seem to have forgotten about it as they never mention it. It's still there and in excellent shape. When Amtrak was formed we had the Lone Star(former Texas Chief) which gave good service between Houston/Ft Worth/KC and Chicago and ran until the Carter masacre. That route now hosts the Heartland Flyer and part of the Texas Eagle's route. Then we had the InterAmerican which became the Texas Eagle. For a time it split at Temple with a Houston section. That was the bone they threw us for dropping the Lone Star. Now the only Houston service other than the Sunset is a bus connection to the Eagle at Longview. People here would utilize rail service if it were practical and timely. The Sunset is well patronized considering it only runs three times a week, serves San Antonio in the middle of the night, stops at a woefully pitiful little station in Houston that is hidden behind the main Post Office, stops in Beaumont where there is no station at all, just a concrete slab and never runs on time. The Eagle tries to become an everything train wondering accross Texas making all the stops on it's way north on a well padded schedule, but is still well utilized. As for the Texas to Colorado service, it is never mentioned and seems unlikely to ever be restored. The BNSF route it utilized is clogged with coal trains and very busy. The passenger train advocacy group here, TXARP, does not promote the route. Instead they propose some roundabout route through Lubbock using unsignalled slow tracks to go north from there. It's a pipe dream. I don't belong to TXARP as they have no common sense at all. As a result, down here in Texas we continue to have pitiful service from Amtrak. But, we have Southwest Airlines so who needs it.

The lack of a conveniently timed daytime Houston to San Antonio train, linking two very major cities, is pretty criminal.

 

[haolerider]

The Sunset is well patronized considering it only runs three times a week, serves San Antonio in the middle of the night, stops at a woefully pitiful little station in Houston that is hidden behind the main Post Office, stops in Beaumont where there is no station at all, just a concrete slab and never runs on time.

I guess the answer is:

Pass a law requiring Amtrak have schedules which limit stations stops to only the convenient hours of between 9am and 5pm, reguardless of now long the route might be.

Pass a law requiring all cites with passenger rail stops spend a minimum of $85 million on new/upgraded passenger station every 5 years, and state DOTs build limited access super-highways that terminate at those stations.

This is a stupid answer to a complex question. I have worked the timetable many times and even with the padding Amtrak added it is possible to serve the major population centers at something close to a reasonable time. The train traverses over 2000 miles but only hits 6 major population centers - LA, Phoenix(Maricopa), El Paso, San Antonio, Houston and New Orleans. It is easily possible to fix the schedule or at least restore it to it's pre-Katrina timing. But Amtrak does nothing. They still run the train as if it goes to Orlando with the equipment laying over in NO for three days before returning west. In LA they do not turn the train same day but lay it over requiring an extra set there. Hence four sets of equipment are required to maintain this three times a week schedule. It only takes five sets to run daily. There are times when two sets are in NO at the same time...one just arriving in the evening with one waiting to leave the next morning. It's just poor management on Amtrak's part. They just don't consider the Sunset Limited a train they want to keep. It's poor performance(their words) is due to their neglect. The sad part is if they want to restore the service to Florida, the equipment is just sitting in NO doing nothing. It would not take any additional train sets, just crews. Amtrak has made up it's mind that it doesn't want to go back to Florida and only an act of Congress will change that. Lets hope we can at least keep the rest of the route.

It's interesting to see everyone's supposed educated comments, but as has been pointed out previously, Amtrak can run the Sunset only when they can get permission from the host railroad to change the schedule. UP will not agree to change the schedule to allow a change of days of operation for this train - which would free up one set of superliner equipment. Your comments that Amtrak does nothing and has its mind made up is simply wrong and shows your total lack of knowledge of what you yourself describe as a complex question.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

The lack of a conveniently timed daytime Houston to San Antonio train, linking two very major cities, is pretty criminal.

I see no reason why there shouldn't be 200 MPH+ track dedicated to passenger service on that route with departures in each direction at least once every two hours, and quite possibly hourly.

Though it probably makes sense to build 200 MPH+ San Antonio to Ft Worth and Houston to Dallas tracks first, since there's the possibility of going from there to Kansas City where high speed connections from there to the rest of the country make sense; and until the San Antonio to Houston track is built, one could go via Dallas/ Ft Worth.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Personally I hope they restore the Orlando-Los Angeles route. Plus I hope good luck to them. By the way you guys do know that 2009 will mark the 140th anniversary of the Transcontiental route.

I hope in 20 years it'll be possible to take a train from Miami to Orlando to Atlanta to St Louis to Kansas City to Denver to Salt Lake City to Las Vegas to Los Angeles, with the minimum speed being at least 200 MPH except near those city stops.

 

[haolerider]

Personally I hope they restore the Orlando-Los Angeles route. Plus I hope good luck to them. By the way you guys do know that 2009 will mark the 140th anniversary of the Transcontiental route.

I hope in 20 years it'll be possible to take a train from Miami to Orlando to Atlanta to St Louis to Kansas City to Denver to Salt Lake City to Las Vegas to Los Angeles, with the minimum speed being at least 200 MPH except near those city stops.

This is all well and good, but the reality is that with all the other ecomonic issues facing the country, the possbility of high speed rail becoming part of the future is going to be severely limited. At this point in time, I know of no firm, funded and designed plans for high speed rail anywhere in the country. Time is not on the side of this kind of technology, since it will literally take decades to design systems, determine priorities, get dedicated space for new tracks, order, build and purchase equipment and change the attitudes of the traveling public. Amtrak saw great increases in ridership during the period when gas prices were $4 and higher, but with gas now at considerably lower prices, ridership is falling - primarily on the NEC. Part of this, of course, is the lessening of business related trips on the NEC and who knows when and how long it will take to experience an ecomonic recovery - and at what cost. Someone has to be the champion of high speed rail and I don't see anyone (individual or state or federal government) who is taking the lead.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I hope in 20 years it'll be possible to take a train from Miami to Orlando to Atlanta to St Louis to Kansas City to Denver to Salt Lake City to Las Vegas to Los Angeles, with the minimum speed being at least 200 MPH except near those city stops.

This is all well and good, but the reality is that with all the other ecomonic issues facing the country, the possbility of high speed rail becoming part of the future is going to be severely limited.

One of our economic issues is the quantity of petroluem we're importing.

Electric trains and trolleybuses are really the only proven technology to address this problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if a certain amount of local mass transit is more cost effective than high speed intercity rail, but we're going to reach a point of diminishing returns on local mass transit after a certain amount of construction.

Even if biofuel turns out to be viable, highway crowding and airport crowding are problems that may turn out to be better addressed by rail than highway and airport expansion. Congestion has its economic costs, too.

At this point in time, I know of no firm, funded and designed plans for high speed rail anywhere in the country. Time is not on the side of this kind of technology, since it will literally take decades to design systems, determine priorities, get dedicated space for new tracks, order, build and purchase equipment and change the attitudes of the traveling public.

I thought the expectation was that California high speed rail may be operating revenue service within less than 10 years.

Amtrak saw great increases in ridership during the period when gas prices were $4 and higher, but with gas now at considerably lower prices, ridership is falling - primarily on the NEC. Part of this, of course, is the lessening of business related trips on the NEC and who knows when and how long it will take to experience an ecomonic recovery - and at what cost. Someone has to be the champion of high speed rail and I don't see anyone (individual or state or federal government) who is taking the lead.

Part of the problem is also that I believe Amtrak sets bucket prices 11 months before the train rolls out of the station, and then doesn't adjust them for changing economic conditions. I bet if they added some last minute low bucket seats, they could lure passengers away from the buses and fill all the seats on the trains.

 

[haolerider]

I hope in 20 years it'll be possible to take a train from Miami to Orlando to Atlanta to St Louis to Kansas City to Denver to Salt Lake City to Las Vegas to Los Angeles, with the minimum speed being at least 200 MPH except near those city stops.

This is all well and good, but the reality is that with all the other ecomonic issues facing the country, the possbility of high speed rail becoming part of the future is going to be severely limited.

One of our economic issues is the quantity of petroluem we're importing.

Electric trains and trolleybuses are really the only proven technology to address this problem.

I wouldn't be surprised if a certain amount of local mass transit is more cost effective than high speed intercity rail, but we're going to reach a point of diminishing returns on local mass transit after a certain amount of construction.

Even if biofuel turns out to be viable, highway crowding and airport crowding are problems that may turn out to be better addressed by rail than highway and airport expansion. Congestion has its economic costs, too.

At this point in time, I know of no firm, funded and designed plans for high speed rail anywhere in the country. Time is not on the side of this kind of technology, since it will literally take decades to design systems, determine priorities, get dedicated space for new tracks, order, build and purchase equipment and change the attitudes of the traveling public.

I thought the expectation was that California high speed rail may be operating revenue service within less than 10 years.

Amtrak saw great increases in ridership during the period when gas prices were $4 and higher, but with gas now at considerably lower prices, ridership is falling - primarily on the NEC. Part of this, of course, is the lessening of business related trips on the NEC and who knows when and how long it will take to experience an ecomonic recovery - and at what cost. Someone has to be the champion of high speed rail and I don't see anyone (individual or state or federal government) who is taking the lead.

Part of the problem is also that I believe Amtrak sets bucket prices 11 months before the train rolls out of the station, and then doesn't adjust them for changing economic conditions. I bet if they added some last minute low bucket seats, they could lure passengers away from the buses and fill all the seats on the trains.

Actually that is not accurate at all. The bucket prices are set 11 months out and constantly reviewed, raised and lowered and allocations of space are monitored on almost a daily basis. Just watch the prices change as bookings increase and decrease.

As far as California, all I know is that it will take 3-5 years to build necesary equipment and at least that long to find the space to lay the tracks, design the systems, fund the costs and then actually get around to building it. It is fashionable to discuss this, but I see no real movement to make it happen.

I applaud your enthusiasm for high speed rail and don't want to rain on your parade, but I will be much more enthusiastic once I see a real movement.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Actually that is not accurate at all. The bucket prices are set 11 months out and constantly reviewed, raised and lowered and allocations of space are monitored on almost a daily basis. Just watch the prices change as bookings increase and decrease.

The whole point of the bucket system is that if someone is setting the prices 11 months in advance and doesn't ever bother to revise them after that, seats sold later will usually be sold at higher prices, except when there are cancelations. Watching prices change as bookings increase and decrease does not prove that a human is adjusting the number of seats available at the lower buckets to reflect an economy changing on a shorter timescale than 11 months.

 

[edding]

The Sunset is well patronized considering it only runs three times a week, serves San Antonio in the middle of the night, stops at a woefully pitiful little station in Houston that is hidden behind the main Post Office, stops in Beaumont where there is no station at all, just a concrete slab and never runs on time.

I guess the answer is:

Pass a law requiring Amtrak have schedules which limit stations stops to only the convenient hours of between 9am and 5pm, reguardless of now long the route might be.

Pass a law requiring all cites with passenger rail stops spend a minimum of $85 million on new/upgraded passenger station every 5 years, and state DOTs build limited access super-highways that terminate at those stations.

This is a stupid answer to a complex question. I have worked the timetable many times and even with the padding Amtrak added it is possible to serve the major population centers at something close to a reasonable time. The train traverses over 2000 miles but only hits 6 major population centers - LA, Phoenix(Maricopa), El Paso, San Antonio, Houston and New Orleans. It is easily possible to fix the schedule or at least restore it to it's pre-Katrina timing. But Amtrak does nothing. They still run the train as if it goes to Orlando with the equipment laying over in NO for three days before returning west. In LA they do not turn the train same day but lay it over requiring an extra set there. Hence four sets of equipment are required to maintain this three times a week schedule. It only takes five sets to run daily. There are times when two sets are in NO at the same time...one just arriving in the evening with one waiting to leave the next morning. It's just poor management on Amtrak's part. They just don't consider the Sunset Limited a train they want to keep. It's poor performance(their words) is due to their neglect. The sad part is if they want to restore the service to Florida, the equipment is just sitting in NO doing nothing. It would not take any additional train sets, just crews. Amtrak has made up it's mind that it doesn't want to go back to Florida and only an act of Congress will change that. Lets hope we can at least keep the rest of the route.

My only comment on this ( besides hoping that the Sunset, wherever it ends up in the east, becomes daily) is, please, no one on this board, please do not refer to the 5th largest city as Phoenix(Maricopa). In no way shape or form is Maricopa a legitimate stop for Phoenix. Don't think it, don't say it, don't repeat it. How would you feel about Chicago/Rantoul; St Louis/Carbondale; Detroit/Albion. Ok, my geography might be a little exaggerated, but you get my point. Just don't do it.

Ed

 

[WICT106]

I think that restoration of service between Jacksonville and New Orleans would best be done by several departures of day trains. Not by one trains which have proven to be unreliable in regards to timekeeping.

 

[haolerider]

Actually that is not accurate at all. The bucket prices are set 11 months out and constantly reviewed, raised and lowered and allocations of space are monitored on almost a daily basis. Just watch the prices change as bookings increase and decrease.

The whole point of the bucket system is that if someone is setting the prices 11 months in advance and doesn't ever bother to revise them after that, seats sold later will usually be sold at higher prices, except when there are cancelations. Watching prices change as bookings increase and decrease does not prove that a human is adjusting the number of seats available at the lower buckets to reflect an economy changing on a shorter timescale than 11 months.

All I can say is that you are wrong. There actually is a human who changes allocations and prices. I am always amazed at how confident some people are when discussing something they really don't understand.

 

[sky12065]

My only comment on this ( besides hoping that the Sunset, wherever it ends up in the east, becomes daily) is, please, no one on this board, please do not refer to the 5th largest city as Phoenix(Maricopa). In no way shape or form is Maricopa a legitimate stop for Phoenix. Don't think it, don't say it, don't repeat it. How would you feel about Chicago/Rantoul; St Louis/Carbondale; Detroit/Albion. Ok, my geography might be a little exaggerated, but you get my point. Just don't do it.
Ed

My home station is the Albany station physically located in Rensselaer, NY. I have no problem whatsoever in referring to it as the Albany/Rensselaer or Albany (Rensselaer) station. The reason why is because the station reference is generally preceved as a part of a LD train system and not a local commuter system. The reference in this case was also relative to a LD run. The only differences I see with Phoenix (Maricopa) compared to Albany/Rensselaer is the respective distances between the two sets of locations, the inconvenient arrival times at Maricopa and the availability of rentals.

Now does that mean that I am not if favor of the SL going through Phoenix? Absolutely not! I could even see a benefit to there being a stop in Higley as that seems to be an up and coming area that could service the Mesa, Gilbert, Chandler and Apache Junction area as well as being near the Phoenix Mesa Gateway Airport! Like the distance between the LSL's Rensselaer stop and the Schenectady stop, Higley is an equilivant at around 30 miles.

Enjoy the cooler winter weather. Summer will be upon you faster than it will for us up in the northeast!

 

[Guest]

This is a stupid answer to a complex question.

It as to-the-point answesr to some stupid questions/requirements.

How exactly would you run a LD train, with each train never, ever, arrives at an inconvenient time AT ALL STATIONS along its route, and that being true for ALL PASSENGERS onboard?

How exactly would you go about putting the requirement ONTO AMTRAK that all train stops have nice pretty stations?

I eagerly await to read your smarty solutions.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

How exactly would you run a LD train, with each train never, ever, arrives at an inconvenient time AT ALL STATIONS along its route, and that being true for ALL PASSENGERS onboard?

You simply have track that has capacity for a passenger train in each direction every hour or two, run at least a train every two hours in each direction, and have each train skip the stops that would be scheduled to occur between 11 PM and 6 AM.

 

[Guest]

The real solution is to have multiple trains a day along each route, with tracks used primarily for passenger service along the major routes.
I also find 5PM to be an inconveniently early cutoff time. I would much rather have the option of arriving at the station somewhat later.

Multiple trains would not be an answer. If you have multiple trains, each of those trains will still stop somewhere at, say, 2am. Remember, the original "problem" was about trains arriving at any station along its route at an inconvenient time (my example here is 2am, but pick anyone you want... 1am, 3am, 4am, midnight?).

I just picked 5pm. Feel free to pick another time, after which, no train will stop at any station because it is too late at night, or too early in the morning. Maybe a better time would be when car rental places close?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

My only comment on this ( besides hoping that the Sunset, wherever it ends up in the east, becomes daily) is, please, no one on this board, please do not refer to the 5th largest city as Phoenix(Maricopa). In no way shape or form is Maricopa a legitimate stop for Phoenix.

Phoenix is the 13th largest primary census area. It's really pretty silly to pretend that Cambridge's population shouldn't be counted as being a part of the area served by the Boston Amtrak stations (as you are doing when you say that Phoenix is the 5th largest city) just because Cambridge has a separate mayor when it's easily possible to walk from BON to some parts of Cambridge.

The 13th largest primary census area certainly ought to have excellent train service, though. (By which I'm thinking 200 MPH or faster track to Las Vegas; from there a train could continue to Los Angeles, and make the Phoenix to Los Angeles run in under three hours.)

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I just picked 5pm. Feel free to pick another time, after which, no train will stop at any station because it is too late at night, or too early in the morning. Maybe a better time would be when car rental places close?

The last Northeast Regional to arrive at BOS each day is scheduled to arrive early enough that the MBTA Red Line is still running (getting to South Station a little after midnight tends to be early enough), and while I usually use the Red Line to get to Porter Square so that I can walk home, I suppose I could also use the Red Line to get to Porter Square to pick up a Zipcar. Though there are probably Zipcar locations at Red Line Stations closer to South Station than Porter Square.

It's also pretty ridiculous that most car rental companies don't offer the same sorts of hours at Amtrak stations that they do at airports. No point in trying to work the train schedules around that; it would be much better to figure out how to fix the car rental companies, or start a new car rental company that does the right thing at Amtrak stations.

 

[edding]

My only comment on this ( besides hoping that the Sunset, wherever it ends up in the east, becomes daily) is, please, no one on this board, please do not refer to the 5th largest city as Phoenix(Maricopa). In no way shape or form is Maricopa a legitimate stop for Phoenix. Don't think it, don't say it, don't repeat it. How would you feel about Chicago/Rantoul; St Louis/Carbondale; Detroit/Albion. Ok, my geography might be a little exaggerated, but you get my point. Just don't do it.
Ed

My home station is the Albany station physically located in Rensselaer, NY. I have no problem whatsoever in referring to it as the Albany/Rensselaer or Albany (Rensselaer) station. The reason why is because the station reference is generally preceved as a part of a LD train system and not a local commuter system. The reference in this case was also relative to a LD run. The only differences I see with Phoenix (Maricopa) compared to Albany/Rensselaer is the respective distances between the two sets of locations, the inconvenient arrival times at Maricopa and the availability of rentals.

Now does that mean that I am not if favor of the SL going through Phoenix? Absolutely not! I could even see a benefit to there being a stop in Higley as that seems to be an up and coming area that could service the Mesa, Gilbert, Chandler and Apache Junction area as well as being near the Phoenix Mesa Gateway Airport! Like the distance between the LSL's Rensselaer stop and the Schenectady stop, Higley is an equilivant at around 30 miles.

Enjoy the cooler winter weather. Summer will be upon you faster than it will for us up in the northeast!

Without being TOO argumentative, I lived in Albany( Voorheesville actually) for five years before moving to Phoenix/Tempe and took the train on many occasions so I have an actual frame of reference to state that your comparison is not valid. Let me put it in Capital District terms: would you consider it to be an Albany stop if, for example, the train only came as far as either Mechanicsville or Renselaerville( cute town if you're visiting Andy Rooney)? I picked those specifically because the ease of getting there and the size( although Mechanicsville is much larger than Maricopa) is about the same. Also while I loved Albany and would love to live there, in no way is it comparable in size to Phoenix. And yes, thank you, I will revel in the cooler weather and dread the return of the endless summer.

And ps. Higley is also in the middle of nowhere( although not quite as bad as Maricopa)

 

[edding]

My only comment on this ( besides hoping that the Sunset, wherever it ends up in the east, becomes daily) is, please, no one on this board, please do not refer to the 5th largest city as Phoenix(Maricopa). In no way shape or form is Maricopa a legitimate stop for Phoenix.

Phoenix is the 13th largest primary census area. It's really pretty silly to pretend that Cambridge's population shouldn't be counted as being a part of the area served by the Boston Amtrak stations (as you are doing when you say that Phoenix is the 5th largest city) just because Cambridge has a separate mayor when it's easily possible to walk from BON to some parts of Cambridge.

The 13th largest primary census area certainly ought to have excellent train service, though. (By which I'm thinking 200 MPH or faster track to Las Vegas; from there a train could continue to Los Angeles, and make the Phoenix to Los Angeles run in under three hours.)

Huh? What's with the east coast inferiority complex? Did I mention Boston at all? Was I having another senior moment? My original and subsequent comment relate only to denying that Maricopa should be considered a legitimate or equivalent substitute for the Phoenix metro area. Boston and Cambridge are cheek and jowl neighbors with an integrated transit system and large populations and significant institutions. Plus they're a stone's throw away from each other. If Amtrak wants to come to Tempe or, Gods forbid, Mesa and consider that to be a legitimate stop for Phoenix -- ok. Plus both Tempe and Mesa each have their own mayor too so I guess that makes them real.

 

[JohnF]

This is a stupid answer to a complex question.

It as to-the-point answesr to some stupid questions/requirements.

How exactly would you run a LD train, with each train never, ever, arrives at an inconvenient time AT ALL STATIONS along its route, and that being true for ALL PASSENGERS onboard?

How exactly would you go about putting the requirement ONTO AMTRAK that all train stops have nice pretty stations?

I eagerly await to read your smarty solutions.

I would be glad to send you the proposed schedule if you want. It's pretty easy to hit all the major stops at a reasonable hour since there are only 5 in between LA and NO. As for other LD trains, I believe we are addressing the Sunset Limited here. Prior to Katrina and the abomination of a schedule that resulted, the only city with bad timing was San Antonio and with a little adjustment that could be fixed also. I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to 'nice pretty stations'. Beaumont is only a concrete slab. I would think they need to fix that.

As for the comments about Maricopa not being Phoenix....it's all we have right now since UP has mothballed the track west of Phoenix. Maricopa is a nothing little town, but they now have a nice station and they are only 35 miles away, closer than most airports in the major cities. All it takes is a simple shuttle van service. From the boarding numbers that Amtrak publishes it looks like a lot of Phoenix passengers board in Tucson.

 

[haolerider]

This is a stupid answer to a complex question.

It as to-the-point answesr to some stupid questions/requirements.

How exactly would you run a LD train, with each train never, ever, arrives at an inconvenient time AT ALL STATIONS along its route, and that being true for ALL PASSENGERS onboard?

How exactly would you go about putting the requirement ONTO AMTRAK that all train stops have nice pretty stations?

I eagerly await to read your smarty solutions.

I would be glad to send you the proposed schedule if you want. It's pretty easy to hit all the major stops at a reasonable hour since there are only 5 in between LA and NO. As for other LD trains, I believe we are addressing the Sunset Limited here. Prior to Katrina and the abomination of a schedule that resulted, the only city with bad timing was San Antonio and with a little adjustment that could be fixed also. I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to 'nice pretty stations'. Beaumont is only a concrete slab. I would think they need to fix that.

As for the comments about Maricopa not being Phoenix....it's all we have right now since UP has mothballed the track west of Phoenix. Maricopa is a nothing little town, but they now have a nice station and they are only 35 miles away, closer than most airports in the major cities. All it takes is a simple shuttle van service. From the boarding numbers that Amtrak publishes it looks like a lot of Phoenix passengers board in Tucson.

I remind you that all changes to schedules require the approval of the host railroad. While you may have good intentions regarding your schedule, it is absolutely impossible to even consider, based on the lack of control over timing and access to tracks. It may work in your imaginary/theoretical world, but not in the real world.

 

[sky12065]

My only comment on this ( besides hoping that the Sunset, wherever it ends up in the east, becomes daily) is, please, no one on this board, please do not refer to the 5th largest city as Phoenix(Maricopa). In no way shape or form is Maricopa a legitimate stop for Phoenix. Don't think it, don't say it, don't repeat it. How would you feel about Chicago/Rantoul; St Louis/Carbondale; Detroit/Albion. Ok, my geography might be a little exaggerated, but you get my point. Just don't do it.
Ed

My home station is the Albany station physically located in Rensselaer, NY. I have no problem whatsoever in referring to it as the Albany/Rensselaer or Albany (Rensselaer) station. The reason why is because the station reference is generally preceved as a part of a LD train system and not a local commuter system. The reference in this case was also relative to a LD run. The only differences I see with Phoenix (Maricopa) compared to Albany/Rensselaer is the respective distances between the two sets of locations, the inconvenient arrival times at Maricopa and the availability of rentals.

Now does that mean that I am not if favor of the SL going through Phoenix? Absolutely not! I could even see a benefit to there being a stop in Higley as that seems to be an up and coming area that could service the Mesa, Gilbert, Chandler and Apache Junction area as well as being near the Phoenix Mesa Gateway Airport! Like the distance between the LSL's Rensselaer stop and the Schenectady stop, Higley is an equilivant at around 30 miles.

Enjoy the cooler winter weather. Summer will be upon you faster than it will for us up in the northeast!

Without being TOO argumentative, I lived in Albany( Voorheesville actually) for five years before moving to Phoenix/Tempe and took the train on many occasions so I have an actual frame of reference to state that your comparison is not valid. Let me put it in Capital District terms: would you consider it to be an Albany stop if, for example, the train only came as far as either Mechanicsville or Renselaerville( cute town if you're visiting Andy Rooney)? I picked those specifically because the ease of getting there and the size( although Mechanicsville is much larger than Maricopa) is about the same. Also while I loved Albany and would love to live there, in no way is it comparable in size to Phoenix. And yes, thank you, I will revel in the cooler weather and dread the return of the endless summer.

And ps. Higley is also in the middle of nowhere( although not quite as bad as Maricopa)

I don't think you were being argumentative at all! Your points are well taken! It was, to be honest, just a preception on my part (as I think it was for the original statement maker) especially with my only being in the area once - being this summer... and that didn't include actually going all the way to Higley! My preception of what I did see, in the rest of the area I mentioned near there, was that it looked ripe in that direction for developement to spread to that area in the coming years in a manner that Mesa developed and that Apache Junction may also develop similarly too!

Going back when I was kid living in Waterford (50's & 60's) there was a commuter choo-choo than ran from Albany to Mechanicville (at least) and stopped in Waterford. I still remember passengers debarking in the afternoon on their way home from work. I believe that the train station still exists to this day in what we locals frequently refer to Mechanicville as... Mickeyville! I don't know why it was discontinued way back when, but with things they way they are today I don't know why it's not at least considered for reinstatement, even locally run. (not Amtrak) All the tracks (at least one of two sets) are still there as far as I know of and still being used for freight. And I couldn't even begin to tell you just how much the population in those areas has grown over the years! Perhaps there's reasons beyond what I could imagine why it's not happening. I just don't know!

As for Maricopa, a commuter between there and Phoenix probably wouldn't be a feasible alternative to the SL directly servicing the City of Phoenix, but as an outsider (at least at this time) I would still relate Phoenix with Maricopa at least for the purpose of rail service for being the closest to Phoenix. After all, this summer I related Phoenix to Flagstaff because it was the best related location for me and my trip and that's a lot further apart that Albany and New York would be by at least 40 miles!

The termenology is all relative to the individual perspective and not at all a statement on the merits of Phoenix having direct Amtrak service! Personally I'd like to see direct service to and from Chicago and other other points like Florida and LA. I'd even like a direct connection from Rensselaer, but sometime enough is enough; we could go hog-wild with desirable direct connections if we let our imaginations let loose!

 

[JohnF]

I remind you that all changes to schedules require the approval of the host railroad. While you may have good intentions regarding your schedule, it is absolutely impossible to even consider, based on the lack of control over timing and access to tracks. It may work in your imaginary/theoretical world, but not in the real world.

Such negativism. Nothing is impossible except getting through to some of the closed minds on here. All trains are subject to timetable changes. They happen all the time whether initiated by Amtrak or the host railroad. In passenger train scheduling, change is the only constant. Otherwise we would not need seasonal timetables from Amtrak. We could just use the same one for years. Changing the Sunsets schedule is a no-brainer. Amtrak just isn't interested in the train.

 

[had8ley]

I remind you that all changes to schedules require the approval of the host railroad. While you may have good intentions regarding your schedule, it is absolutely impossible to even consider, based on the lack of control over timing and access to tracks. It may work in your imaginary/theoretical world, but not in the real world.

Changing the Sunsets schedule is a no-brainer. Amtrak just isn't interested in the train.

BINGO! Ran across an article where Amtrak's president said almost the identical thing before a Congressional committee!