Superliner trains' removal and restoration of cars (2022-2023)

[Brian Battuello]

I've done swaps, but I've also had otherwise nice car attendants militarily keep coach passengers out of their car. FWIW, I have almost never had anyone check ID's vs names on a ticket, especially for anyone beyond the first ticket holder. If you board with an inlaw and move into the room, you shouldn't have a problem. If they board together and you try to swap later, it might not work.

 

[Altygrae]

How does the ticketing work? I've been puzzling over how my in-laws will access the sleeping car for boarding and if they leave to go to observation car or cafe. We only have one ticket received by email...which is no longer current with the change to coach. Do we all just carry a copy of the same ticket?

The attendants are very observant as are dining car staff so folks ticketed in sleepers are recognized by those folks. Sleeper car passengers board into their car at the front of the train and coach is loaded by destination. As I recall it's sleepers, dining car, observation car, coach cars. Sleeper car passengers have a car # on their tickets which helps them get to the right section of the train. Also spending the extra for a Red Cap can make it easier at bigger stations.

 

[Brian Battuello]

Agree. As a sleeping car passenger, I've never had any problem going anywhere in the train I want. But even between meals, the dining car attendants will eyeball you as you walk back. They seem to have a pretty good memory for who started where. And likewise your car attendant will remember who should be in their car, although they might be away or taking a break in their cubicle. Again, if you start out in their room, you'll have no problems, especially if you carry a copy of the combined ticket. But once you start, if your in-laws want to socialize, they'll have to do it in the lounge car.

 

[trimetbusfan]

The attendants are very observant as are dining car staff so folks ticketed in sleepers are recognized by those folks. Sleeper car passengers board into their car at the front of the train and coach is loaded by destination. As I recall it's sleepers, dining car, observation car, coach cars. Sleeper car passengers have a car # on their tickets which helps them get to the right section of the train. Also spending the extra for a Red Cap can make it easier at bigger stations.

Agree. As a sleeping car passenger, I've never had any problem going anywhere in the train I want. But even between meals, the dining car attendants will eyeball you as you walk back. They seem to have a pretty good memory for who started where. And likewise your car attendant will remember who should be in their car, although they might be away or taking a break in their cubicle. Again, if you start out in their room, you'll have no problems, especially if you carry a copy of the combined ticket. But once you start, if your in-laws want to socialize, they'll have to do it in the lounge car.

Btw, this is good advice but the thread you mentioned is quite old. I don’t know it the advise necessarily applies for the original poster anymore.

 

[joelkfla]

Well, they didn't last year. The first cuts, on the Builder, happened just a couple weeks before the second sleeper was scheduled to come on.

Hopefully, they learned something after last summer's debacle where the Builder's second sleeper never appeared, the SW Chief's got pulled mid-summer at the height of the season and the CZ's got pulled in early Fall. That certainly looks like they planned well for peak travel season, doesn't it?

Their track record is not good. This late winter and spring, the CZ had its second sleeper, with sold inventory, pulled yet again, albeit with more notice than last summer's clown show.

I regard this summer as a beta test that at least some competence has been restored to equipment planning and that those who manage equipment and those who manage inventory have resumed speaking to each other.

Personally, I don't participate in betas.

I will not book in non-base sleepers until Amtrak has managed to go a full year, including peak seasons, without pulling this nonsense. By my reckoning that'll be early spring 2024. At that point, I'll consider the beta test of their ability to tie their own shoes successfully completed. Not before.

So you consider the removal of the Silver Meteor sleeper to be properly done?

Although @jis seems to be saying it's a done deal for the last week of June, I have not seen anything official from Amtrak, nor have I noticed any reports of passengers being bumped, notified, or reaccommodated yet. (Maybe it's just that nobody has posted their experience yet.)

 

[zephyr17]

So you consider the removal of the Silver Meteor sleeper to be properly done?

Although @jis seems to be saying it's a done deal for the last week of June, I have not seen anything official from Amtrak, nor have I noticed any reports of passengers being bumped, notified, or reaccommodated yet. (Maybe it's just that nobody has posted their experience yet.)

Well, if they never sold inventory in it, thereby forcing downgrades and reaccomodations, I actually would consider it "properly done" for purposes of the immediate discussion.

My comments were really focused on the risks of booking a non-base sleeper until Amtrak has established a track record of consistently matching equipment to inventory released for sale. Constrained inventory due to equipment unavailability and resulting extremely high prices is a different matter. Whether or not Amtrak is deliberately slow walking getting mothballed equipment back into service in order to both save on maintenance costs and reap higher prices is a different discussion, though a worthy one. That, at least, would be indicative of some thought as opposed to just stumbling into selling something you don't even know you don't have.

 

[jis]

So you consider the removal of the Silver Meteor sleeper to be properly done?

Although @jis seems to be saying it's a done deal for the last week of June, I have not seen anything official from Amtrak, nor have I noticed any reports of passengers being bumped, notified, or reaccommodated yet. (Maybe it's just that nobody has posted their experience yet.)

I don’t promise anything. Wait till when the Meteor gets traditional dining and see what happens. I would not take my own prognostications to the bank. It is hearsay until Amtrak says something or it happens.

 

[lordsigma]

So you consider the removal of the Silver Meteor sleeper to be properly done?

Properly would be if it’s done early enough so that everyone retains the accommodation type they paid for. I’m sure any consist change that results in a reduction in capacity is going to be looked at with some amount of skepticism by observers. I think the main issue at hand here is the idea of them making a capacity reduction at the last minute when a ton of people have booked resulting in a downgrade from a bedroom to a roomette or to coach and having to make last minute alternate travel arrangements. The spring reduction to the zephyr while still unfortunate was at least done early enough where most affected people simply got alternate room assignments. There were only a handful of coach downgrades on busier days - nowhere near the amount they had in previous rounds where they did it short notice. Most days they hadnt yet sold enough rooms that would cause this to occur (but there were probably also some bedroom to roomette downgrades.) additionally with it being 2 months early people at least had time to either make other arrangements or make an attempt to switch to a day with availability since it was 2 months+ instead of 2 weeks+. While overselling isn’t unprecedented in the travel industry it’s not really something Amtrak should be engaging in.

 

[lordsigma]

Well, they didn't last year. The first cuts, on the Builder, happened just a couple weeks before the second sleeper was scheduled to come on.

Well aware. But the most recent incident - the spring reduction - was more notice 2 months (or more). So at this point I'm leaning towards it's coming back as scheduled. There's also been a couple healthy arrivals of equipment from Beech Grove in recent weeks. I suspect they probably got a lot of heat for last summer/fall so one would think they'd want to avoid that again. But I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

I will not book in non-base sleepers until Amtrak has managed to go a full year, including peak seasons, without pulling this nonsense. By my reckoning that'll be early spring 2024. At that point, I'll consider the beta test of their ability to tie their own shoes successfully completed. Not before.

Certainly not saying you should and given what happened last summer and fall certainly can't blame anyone for being skeptical. Book however you feel comfortable. Was merely sharing my point of view and opinion on it.

 

[lordsigma]

As observed by various sources including Galesburg rail cam and an FB group today’s 5 Zephyr had a 532 sleeper and today’s 7 had a 731 sleeper. Good news for those with such reservations for summer.

 

[zephyr17]

As observed by various sources including Galesburg rail cam and an FB group today’s 5 Zephyr had a 532 sleeper and today’s 7 had a 731 sleeper. Good news for those with such reservations for summer.

Assuming they can keep it up.

Last summer they got added, then got disappeared.

 

[lordsigma]

Assuming they can keep it up.

Last summer they got added, then got disappeared.

At the end of summer when they moved into the fall planning season. These should stick around until September at least. This is why I said good news for those with summer reservations. Beyond the September fall shift i make no predictions or after the new fiscal year starts.

 

[Way2Kewl]

Zephyr 05 Westbound - Video from Fort Morgan, CO (FMG)

Jan 01 - Jan 12 - ran with 1 Sleeper
Jan 13 - Mar 06 - added second Sleeper (seasonal for 51 days)- exception Jan 30 ran with 1 Sleeper
Mar 07 - current - ran with 1 Sleeper.
*4 days were run a sleeper replacing the Transition Sleeper (noted below)

Detailed notes:
Jan 11 ran with Winter Train in front of Zephyr baggage
Feb 25 Ran with 2 Lounge Cars

No Transition Sleeper:
Jan 24 Regular Sleeper replaced Transition Sleeper (3 Sleepers)
Jan 25 Regular Sleeper replaced Transition Sleeper (3 Sleepers)
Feb 01 Regular Sleeper replaced Transition Sleeper (3 Sleepers)
Feb 18 Regular Sleeper replaced Transition Sleeper (3 Sleepers)

Source: Youtube fan "Mike Jensen 80701" -daily
Sleeper Car Numbers: Jan 19 Video shows single Sleeper as 0531 (next to diner)

Which way is the 0531 Sleeper facing? ... last 137 days (Jan 1)... 80% predictable...
79.6% Main Sleeper faces forward (Transition Sleeper, Sleeper Bedrooms then Roomette, Diner)
20.4% Main Sleeper faces backwards (Transition Sleeper, Sleeper Roomettes then Bedrooms, Diner)
*The 0532 (when it ran) was 51% Forward 49% Backwards ... So total toss up

 

[zephyr17]

At the end of summer when they moved into the fall planning season. These should stick around until September at least. This is why I said good news for those with summer reservations. Beyond the September fall shift i make no predictions or after the new fiscal year starts.

That was their intention last year that they proved unable to fulfill.

I am not talking about seasonal, planned consist adjustments that are reflected in Arrow as you seem to imply. I am talking about pulling sleepers with sold inventory when someone discovers they don't actually have the sleepers they thought they did.

The last time they pulled this was just recently in late winter/spring of 2023 on the CZ, albeit with more notice to passengers than last summer's debacle.

I will neither trust to their competence nor advise others to until they have gone one full year without pulling sleepers with sold inventory. That means my advice is to keep to "base" sleepers until at least Spring 2024.

It takes years to build a reputation, moments to destroy one. Amtrak has destroyed their reputation for delivering what they committed to. It will take time and actually delivering on their commitments to rebuild any degree of trust.

 

[lordsigma]

That was their intention last year that they proved unable to fulfill.

They reduced the originally intended seasons plan for fall and cut it at the beginning of fall season - and the sleeper was cut when they moved to the fall consists. They didn’t just randomly drop it mid season.

 

[zephyr17]

They reduced the originally intended seasons plan for fall and cut it at the beginning of fall season - and the sleeper was cut when they moved to the fall consists. They didn’t just randomly drop it mid season.

They dropped sleepers with sold inventory, often downgrading people to coach or even canceling trips entirely.

They often gave downgraded passengers as little as 2 weeks notice.

They dropped the Builder's scheduled second sleeper in June, the Chief's in July. I may need to check my calendar, but off the top of my head I don't think that's Fall. If memory serves, absent a calendar, July also strikes me as being mid-season.

"Planning" is evidenced by releasing inventory for sale in the reservation system based on equipment planning. Failure in meeting that plan is just that, failure.

So, they did indeed drop sleepers that they had planned to run. That they made decisions on the fly as to what they'd drop isn't really planning. It's reaction. To not call it random implies using an exceedingly narrow definition of the term. It certainly appeared random to anyone having held a confirmed reservation for a bedroom for many months, then got notified they got moved to coach two weeks before their trip.

 

[lordsigma]

Yes - they didn’t meet the planned summer consists on the builder and chief last year. But these drops occurred with the start of the summer season in May. It’s a matter of available cars vs the planned consist. They didn’t just decide in June or July - f’ it lets drop a car to screw up a bunch of people. They were planned car additions they couldn’t accommodate due to a car shortage. The difference this year - the planned additions have shown up. Absent a major issue that causes a new shortage in equipment I don’t anticipate a “f’ it lets drop a car.” Obviously bad orders and the like can always happen but it appears at least for now they’re trying to meet the planned summer consists unlike last year when they could not. If I recall last year it was a decision to on the chief replace a regular sleeper with a transition car and a planned sleeper addition on the builder they never were able to accomplish. However this year these additions have occurred. So I stand by that it looks better than last year.

I’m not telling you that you should feel comfortable booking a sleeper - if you don’t by all means don’t. Simply passing on - I think things look a bit better than last year. If you don’t agree that’s your perogative.

 

[zephyr17]

Yes - they didn’t meet the planned summer consists on the builder and chief last year. But these drops occurred with the start of the summer season in May. It’s a matter of available cars vs the planned consist. They didn’t just decide in June or July - f’ it lets drop a car to screw up a bunch of people. They were planned car additions they couldn’t accommodate due to a car shortage. The difference this year - the planned additions have shown up. Absent a major issue that causes a new shortage in equipment I don’t anticipate a “f’ it lets drop a car.” Obviously bad orders and the like can always happen but it appears at least for now they’re trying to meet the planned summer consists unlike last year when they could not. If I recall last year it was a decision to on the chief replace a regular sleeper with a transition car and athe planned sleeper addition on the builder they never were able to accomplish. However this year these additions have occurred. So I stand by that it looks better than last year.

I’m not telling you that you should feel comfortable booking a sleeper - if you don’t by all means don’t. Simply passing on - I think things look a bit better than last year. If you don’t agree that’s your perogative.

They did make the decision as early as May, but they often didn't inform those affected until just two weeks before departure. That doesn't make it better, it makes it worse, and did indeed f the passengers.

Last year wasn't occasional bad orders, which I accept do occur and are unavoidable to a certain extent, it was a wholesale failure of equipment planning and coordination with reservation system inventory. It was systemic.

I like how you change your arguments. Oh, it was a planned seasonal withdrawal in the fall. Oops, no, yeah, they did withdraw at the height of the Sumner season. Oh, yeah, that they reacted to the newly discoved equipment shortage in May, just before the start of said season. Then neglected to inform the affected passengers.

Yep, that certainly demonstrates competence all right.

In my view, they must demonstrate competence in planning for a sustained period before I trust, or will advise anyone to trust, in that planning.

I just do not have the trust in the competence in Amtrak management that you appear to. I ask for actual performance and results.

 

[Eric in East County]

They dropped sleepers with sold inventory, often downgrading people to coach or even canceling trips entirely.

They often gave downgraded passengers as little as 2 weeks notice.

They dropped the Builder's scheduled second sleeper in June, the Chief's in July. I may need to check my calendar, but off the top of my head I don't think that's Fall. If memory serves, absent a calendar, July also strikes me as being mid-season.

"Planning" is evidenced by releasing inventory for sale in the reservation system based on equipment planning. Failure in meeting that plan is just that, failure.

So, they did indeed drop sleepers that they had planned to run. That they made decisions on the fly as to what they'd drop isn't really planning. It's reaction. To not call it random implies using an exceedingly narrow definition of the term. It certainly appeared random to anyone having held a confirmed reservation for a bedroom for many months, then got notified they got moved to coach two weeks before their trip.

We got skunked twice last year with bedroom reservations on the Southwest Chief. The first time was June-July. We rescheduled to September and were skunked again. (Rather than canceling our reservations and requesting a refund, we had Customer Relations reschedule us to June-July 2023. That far in advance we were able to get bedrooms in the "base" sleepers. We also had the satisfaction of knowing that these bedrooms are costing us what bedroom cost in January 2022 rather than what they will cost in June 2023.

 

[zephyr17]

⁶

We got skunked twice last year with bedroom reservations on the Southwest Chief. The first time was June-July. We rescheduled to September and were skunked again. (Rather than canceling our reservations and requesting a refund, we had Customer Relations reschedule us to June-July 2023. That far in advance we were able to get bedrooms in the "base" sleepers. We also had the satisfaction of knowing that these bedrooms are costing us what bedroom cost in January 2022 rather than what they will cost in June 2023.

Sorry to hear about your travails at Amtrak's hands. Glad that you were able to book another trip this summer at a cost acceptable to you and you got "base" sleepers to minimize the chances of falling foul of Amtrak's "planning" yet again.

 

[lordsigma]

I like how you change your arguments. Oh, it was a planned seasonal withdrawal in the fall.

I’m not “changing” any “arguments.” The Zephyr reduction was a fall reduction due to a shortage from what they originally planned. The Builder and chief was a summer reduction. I am not “arguing” for anything. Amtrak has its challenges - I’m not going to attempt to defend of make excuses for their planning. I’m merely trying to explain how the planning works. They don’t randomly drop cars mid season - that’s literally the only “argument” I have made. Nowhere have I said that these were “planned” either. They had a shortage and reduced the originally planned consist in both cases - have never “argued” otherwise. What I am saying is the consists changed at the normal seasonal change point - not just randomly in the middle of a season.

 

[Trucker72]

They cancelled our roomette on the CZ from Denver to Emeryville with little notice. When I called I was told that we would have to be in coach. This was part of a Maine to San Diego and back trip. Customer service left it up to me to discover this site which lead me to check availability from stations after Denver to Emeryville. I called customer service again, this time to book coach Denver to Grand Junction and a roomette from there to Emeryville. After all this we were cancelled due to the potential freight strike. Ended up spending 24 plus hours, Greyhound to SD. It would have been nice had customer service checked for roomette availability from beyond Denver.

 

[Chris I]

This is ridiculous. I won't be booking a sleeper trip on Amtrak until this insanity ends.

 

[zephyr17]

This is ridiculous. I won't be booking a sleeper trip on Amtrak until this insanity ends.

Well, I'd feel pretty safe booking in a "base" sleeper, none of which got pulled through all of this mess. But I certainly understand avoiding it entirely.

My definition of the end of insanity is one year after the last occurrence of pulling sleepers with sold inventory
The latest occurrence being the CZ in late winter/spring. So in about a year, if they don't pull this again.

With that said, I'm not putting my money where my mouth is. My big sleeper trip this year will be wholly on VIA. Although that decision was primarily based on the "buffer car" kerfuffle and the doubts raised on the structural integrity of the Budd cars, not Amtrak's apparent inability to count serviceable cars. I was afraid the whole structural integrity issue might be the death knell for those cars and I wanted to get the biggest ride possible in. Happily, testing reaffirmed their strength and the cars will remain in operation until their replacements are acquired, which will take many years. A side effect is I avoid the mess, as VIA is able to adjust consists without booting people out.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

**Amtrak reading ridership report. “Decline in sleeper purchases. Guess we don’t need to hurry to get cars roadworthy”