Surrey Cutoff

[Six2]

Hey, I'm new here. Quick question -

I rode the EB about 12 years ago (I wish I could remember the year) from Chicago to Portland. At the time, I believe it was late spring, the Red River was flooding in North Dakota, and I remember that the train did not go to Grand Forks and used a bustituion for those folks. I do believe we went to Fargo, but I'm curious about the exact route -- I keep track of where I have been.

Do you folks think they used the Surrey Cutoff at that time? Has the route changed since then, for example, I don't know how long the Prosper subdivision has been downgraded. I don't think the flooding was that substantial, but it was enough to reroute the train at the time.

Looking at Google Maps, I'm guessing the train went Fargo - either Prosper or KO - Pillsbury - New Rockford - Wellsburg - Surrey - Minot. Does that sound right?

Thanks!

David

 

[jis]

Back when the North Coast Hiawatha ran, it used to run on the current EB route and the EB used to run on the Surrey Cutoff AFAIR. But that was way more than 12 years back I think. More like 30 something years back.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Fargo to Surrey is indeed the Surrey Cut-Off. The line also went through New Rockford. This confirms that you rode on that line. Check out this map: http://www.gngoat.org/eb35_2.jpg

 

[richardd]

Yes the Surry cutoff goes through New Rockford which used to be a middle of the night stop on the Empire Builder back in late 60's when I went to college in Fargo and rode the train in the winter, from Minot. Then the Western Star went through Rugby, Devils Lake and Grand Forks, where the old GN Depot was down town and the train pulled in and then backed out of Grand Forks to get back on the main line. Memories.

 

[mwmnp]

Looking at Google Maps, I'm guessing the train went Fargo - either Prosper or KO - Pillsbury - New Rockford - Wellsburg - Surrey - Minot. Does that sound right?

Most likely your train didn't go through Prosper, as that line, despite being a historical part of the cutoff and the route of the Empire Builder out of Fargo, was slowly downgraded by the Burlington Northern in the 1970s. The modern cutoff instead goes through Casselton, diverges west of there, goes through Absaraka, and then gets back onto the original cutoff just south of Page, at a place the railroad refers to as Nolan. The rest of the route is as you described, going through Pillsbury, New Rockford, etc. To get on the line to Casselton, you would have had to use the "coal connector" in West Fargo. This is a short piece of track that connects the "old" cutoff with the "new" cutoff and was primarily put in place to more easily route coal trains destined for a power plant near Cohasset, MN through the Fargo area (hence the name "coal connector").

Back when the North Coast Hiawatha ran, it used to run on the current EB route and the EB used to run on the Surrey Cutoff AFAIR. But that was way more than 12 years back I think. More like 30 something years back.

The Great Northern's Empire Builder historically ran on Great Northern's Surrey Cutoff, while the EB's companion Chicago-to-Seattle/Portland train the Western Star took the route through Grand Forks, Devils Lake, and Rugby. When Amtrak began, the Western Star was cut and the Empire Builder, retained by Amtrak, was moved to the Grand Forks line. Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha traveled through North Dakota on former Northern Pacific track and was never on the Surrey Cutoff, except for the short portion between Fargo and Casselton that came to be a part of the cutoff during the days of the Burlington Northern in the 1970s.

 

[greatcats]

I thought, if I recall, that the Western Star was the secondary Northern Pacific train. If that was the case, what was the name of the other GN train?

 

[Tumbleweed]

I thought, if I recall, that the Western Star was the secondary Northern Pacific train. If that was the case, what was the name of the other GN train?

I believe the "Mainstreeter" was the second NP train....Western Star was GN...

 

[greatcats]

I thought, if I recall, that the Western Star was the secondary Northern Pacific train. If that was the case, what was the name of the other GN train?

I believe the "Mainstreeter" was the second NP train....Western Star was GN...

Thank you. I do believe you are correct. " Western Star " is a beautiful name which should be resurrected at some point!

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

I thought, if I recall, that the Western Star was the secondary Northern Pacific train. If that was the case, what was the name of the other GN train?

I believe the "Mainstreeter" was the second NP train....Western Star was GN...

Thank you. I do believe you are correct. " Western Star " is a beautiful name which should be resurrected at some point!

I agree, I always liked the name Western Star over the Empire Builder.

 

[Six2]

Thanks, y'all, my map of US counties visited is now updated.

Riding the Acela NYC - DC tomorrow, looking forward to it!