The Blue Water and Pere Marquette trains are again under the gun.

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http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article...EWS01/908230579

Blue Water line ridership is up, but some fear service may be scaled back

EAST LANSING - More than two dozen people rallied Saturday morning in front of the East Lansing Amtrak station, protesting a proposed $3.6 million in cuts to rail service.

Matt Marderosian, who heads a group called Save Our Trains Michigan, which organized the rally, said the cuts could cause ridership to fall. That could then force Amtrak to eliminate passenger trains in the state.

"I'm standing up for the passengers who want to keep the service," Marderosian said.
 
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Well Michigan does pay more for its trains that many states do. Yes, Michigan could do better. And it would be nice if they'd stop playing this "let's kill the funding for Amtrak" game every few years. But there are states that spend zero on rail.
Like Ohio!

Well, we're working on that I think...
M - I read an article the other day about a group in Cincinnati who is strongly opposed to the Three-C idea and wants NO trains from Cincinnati to Columbus and Cleveland to happen. Have you heard anything about that? I can't find the source I read right off.
There's a couple of issues boiling right now.

1. There is a group in Cin-city who are opposed to a proposed tax increase that would, amongst other things, offer monies to improve Union Terminal. (Though its primary focus is their planned streetcar bit) article here.

2. Amtrak delayed a deadline for a report with NS and CSX to determine how Amtrak could do the CLE, C-Bus, Dayton, CIN, route with minimal impact on freights as well as potential ridership figures. This could make it harder to get funds from HSR and is pretty much a political flub. article here.

3. The Tri-C corridor is the most densely populated midwestern corridor, and probably rivals the densities of of most others. The 255 original Tri-C route (without a stop in Dayton) has a total population of seven million and a density of 27,500 people per rail mile. Add in Dayton and that density increases. This should be a no-brainer for HSR.

4. There are many Ohioans who, when told about HSR thought TGV but when they realized it was a couple of Amfleets dawdling along at highway speeds the idea lost the appeal. There are some who propose jumping on the Talgo boat, but this is unlikely to happen in a state that was built on steel, cars, (trains even), and good old blue collar American industry. The outsourcing argument would do well here, though a Talgo set would improve the image of an Ohio train. (image, nothing more)

Myself, while not opposed to the idea, don't think it is going to work. I'll hold out until Amtrak releases its numbers, but if they cannot get the schedule trimmed this just will not work. Ohio is more conservative than most other states vying for HSR funds, it has also been very neglectful of its rail lines, mostly leaving them in the hands of the freights. The best lines in Ohio are the ones Amtrak uses, CHI-TOL, TOL-CLE, CLE-PGH, and CLE-Erie. There is very little traffic between the three major cities on this route, thus neglect. NS runs its trains between CLE and PGH, anything South of that line gets little traffic, and if it does-- they don't run lines North/South, they run East/West, C-bus-PGH, Indy-C-Bus, the CIN-CLE line doesn't exist without switching to CSX trackage, which is bad according to what I hear.

The Tri-C corridor, more than any of the other viable midwestern corridors I've seen requires the highest capitalist investment if Amtrak doesn't want it to flop flat in five years.
I seems to me that there are huge infrastructure costs associated with the proposed 3-C corridor, that the completion dates are unrealistic and the subsidies will have to be much larger.

In the end, we're talking about connecting declining "rust belt" urban centers, in a state where there is little likelihood of economic recovery, even in the long term.

I was shocked to see how broad based the opposition is in Cincinnati, but there again, this is a city that had major riots only a few years ago. When public services are being cut, tax increases for a trolley system don't seem to be popular. Similarly, Cincinnati Union Terminal has always been a money pit and a burden on the community, something that railfans are reluctant to admit because of the impressive aesthetics.
 
I seems to me that there are huge infrastructure costs associated with the proposed 3-C corridor, that the completion dates are unrealistic and the subsidies will have to be much larger.
In the end, we're talking about connecting declining "rust belt" urban centers, in a state where there is little likelihood of economic recovery, even in the long term.

I was shocked to see how broad based the opposition is in Cincinnati, but there again, this is a city that had major riots only a few years ago. When public services are being cut, tax increases for a trolley system don't seem to be popular. Similarly, Cincinnati Union Terminal has always been a money pit and a burden on the community, something that railfans are reluctant to admit because of the impressive aesthetics.
IMHO, of the designated corridors that don't have ANY rail service, the 3C corridor is the most viable. Sure you can improve the CHI-STL, Cascades, NEC, Empire/Keystone and such... but there is NO line between CLE-CIN.

Now there's no question Amtrak could run A train on the proposed route right now. Freight traffic is low and not likely to improve much, though the rails could use some serious repair work. CLE has a light rail system through the RTA and is talking about expanding it-- C-bus has plans to implement a similar system and CIN is ready to go and make a system... protests not withstanding. CLE is a very artsy and progressive city, as is Columbus. Columbus is also home to Ohio State. The college traffic between these three cities is enormous. Never underestimate the power of football.

What do we get out of this?

Well now we have, if planned right, a connection between the Cardinal and LSL/CL. It's not much, but it is something that can bring the city of Columbus back into the Amtrak market at large.

I disagree that this is just a rust belt state. Ohio is also the back of the corn belt, as well as a key midpoint between the East Coast and CHI.

On the CL to and from ALC I often see people from Youngstown, Columbus, even Dayton boarding in the middle of nowhere Amshack because they want to take the train. If ALC, ALC of all stations can coax pax from the greater C-bus area and even DAYTON then can you imagine what an actual station in either of those two cities would do?

Columbus is plagued with bad traffic, and no amount of Interstate spending is going to improve it. And... if Amtrak is serious about a midwestern HSR network with Wisconsin, Mich., Illinois, and Missouri, how the hell are they going to leave Ohio out of the equation?

The most important thing that will come out of this is the re-integration of Columbus into the national network, as well as service between Dayton and CIN on off days for 50/51.

I also firmly believe that, if successful, there would be the next logical step of adding local and express trains. Where the expresses stop only at the four major cities, and the local trains can do a Penny-esqu meandering of the state once daily in each direction to ferry pax to/from the LSL/CL/Cardinal.

And trust me, Ohioans don't need much to be satisfied. Anything at this point is an improvement. Some Amfleets and a P42, maybe a cabbage, nothing more than Lincoln or Empire Service demands.

I look at the 3C corridor as a cross between Empire service and the Cascades. You have four medium-populated cities on a route that transverses a state and offers connection to LD service on either end. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.
 
I seems to me that there are huge infrastructure costs associated with the proposed 3-C corridor, that the completion dates are unrealistic and the subsidies will have to be much larger.
In the end, we're talking about connecting declining "rust belt" urban centers, in a state where there is little likelihood of economic recovery, even in the long term.

I was shocked to see how broad based the opposition is in Cincinnati, but there again, this is a city that had major riots only a few years ago. When public services are being cut, tax increases for a trolley system don't seem to be popular. Similarly, Cincinnati Union Terminal has always been a money pit and a burden on the community, something that railfans are reluctant to admit because of the impressive aesthetics.
IMHO, of the designated corridors that don't have ANY rail service, the 3C corridor is the most viable. Sure you can improve the CHI-STL, Cascades, NEC, Empire/Keystone and such... but there is NO line between CLE-CIN.

Now there's no question Amtrak could run A train on the proposed route right now. Freight traffic is low and not likely to improve much, though the rails could use some serious repair work. CLE has a light rail system through the RTA and is talking about expanding it-- C-bus has plans to implement a similar system and CIN is ready to go and make a system... protests not withstanding. CLE is a very artsy and progressive city, as is Columbus. Columbus is also home to Ohio State. The college traffic between these three cities is enormous. Never underestimate the power of football.

What do we get out of this?

Well now we have, if planned right, a connection between the Cardinal and LSL/CL. It's not much, but it is something that can bring the city of Columbus back into the Amtrak market at large.

I disagree that this is just a rust belt state. Ohio is also the back of the corn belt, as well as a key midpoint between the East Coast and CHI.

On the CL to and from ALC I often see people from Youngstown, Columbus, even Dayton boarding in the middle of nowhere Amshack because they want to take the train. If ALC, ALC of all stations can coax pax from the greater C-bus area and even DAYTON then can you imagine what an actual station in either of those two cities would do?

Columbus is plagued with bad traffic, and no amount of Interstate spending is going to improve it. And... if Amtrak is serious about a midwestern HSR network with Wisconsin, Mich., Illinois, and Missouri, how the hell are they going to leave Ohio out of the equation?

The most important thing that will come out of this is the re-integration of Columbus into the national network, as well as service between Dayton and CIN on off days for 50/51.

I also firmly believe that, if successful, there would be the next logical step of adding local and express trains. Where the expresses stop only at the four major cities, and the local trains can do a Penny-esqu meandering of the state once daily in each direction to ferry pax to/from the LSL/CL/Cardinal.

And trust me, Ohioans don't need much to be satisfied. Anything at this point is an improvement. Some Amfleets and a P42, maybe a cabbage, nothing more than Lincoln or Empire Service demands.

I look at the 3C corridor as a cross between Empire service and the Cascades. You have four medium-populated cities on a route that transverses a state and offers connection to LD service on either end. Pretty sweet deal if you ask me.
This is an excellent presentation,have you sent it to your politicians in Columbus and Washington?I live where theres 2 trains a day between three of the largest cities/metro areas in America and all we get is pie in the sky HSR schemes by cronies of the governor!I hope you get your trains and someday if I can EVER get a sleeper on the Cardinal hope to get off in Cinn,see Union Station.visit the Football HOF and go to Cleveland to see the RR HOF and visit the stadiums!(Cleveland can do things right! :lol: )Missed C-BUS,Id like to see OSU too,good school even if the Horns have their number! :lol: It would be great to be able to ride the train to see all of this instead of the bus or even worse driving!!! :eek:
 
LoL jim, in HS I was a nationally ranked in the National Forensic League in the Congressional Debate event.
 
State seeks stimulus money for railhttp://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pb...D=2009908250323

This is also putting pressure on the Gov to restore funding for the Blue Water and Pere Marquette Amtrak trains.

There are going to be more rallies around Michigan to show support for these 2 Amtrak trains.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread here, but what is the current state of Michigan's budget issues? I never saw whether these proposed cuts made it officially into the state's budget for 2010.
 
Train subsidies on track — for now

Lansing, MI — Amtrak’s Pere Marquette will keep on rolling through Holland for at least nine more months, but with less state funding. 

Gov. Jennifer Granholm’s approval of the $3.25 billion transportation budget ensures the Pere Marquette and Blue Water lines will receive $5.7 million. That’s $1.4 million less than last year, although the possibility of receiving supplemental funds remains.

 

Alan Bolter, the chief of staff for Sen. Bill Hardiman, R-Kentwood, said that the two routes will likely need legislative action to cover more than nine months of service.
Comments in response:

Meghann C Owen 

Personally, I think cutting the days wold be a good idea and obviously would help our budget. Why not offer this service 5 days a wk rather than 7? Maybe save on costs and close the line on say Tuesdays and Thursday...or which ever day has the least use.
big al 

Yes, we need to make some budget cuts, but we can be proud that we are still able to pay our legislatures some of thie highest salaries in the country!
 
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