The Olympian Hiawatha, The Empire Builder, The North Coast Limited

[jpakala]

In summer 1959 we drove from Pittsburgh to Yellowstone Park where my parents had met in 1927 as "gear jammer" (tourist driver) and "bubble queen" (laundry work at Mammoth lodge), then to Missoula where they & my sister & I boarded the North Coast Limited for Portland with bedroom suite in dome sleeper (below); also enjoyed the big baked potato. I remember Bonneville Dam on the Columbia (below). On return we took train to Seattle from Kelso/Longview and Olympian Hiawatha back to Missoula with 2 sections in 16-section "Mt. Wilson" Touralux sleeping car (below), less expensive than regular sleepers. The full-length dome allowed great views of great scenery in the Cascades, but the seats did not at all allow forward viewing the way the smaller Vista-Domes did. The highlight was the Skytop Lounge (below). Some years back my wife & I rode the parlor car version (car named Cedar Rapids as I recall) on a Friends of the 261 trip from Chicago to St. Paul and I was reminded that the glass-enclosed end of the car is smaller than those of the sleeping cars on the Olympian Hiawatha (simply because the number of bedrooms took up less space than the 20+ parlor chairs).

 

[railiner]

In summer 1959 we drove from Pittsburgh to Yellowstone Park where my parents had met in 1927 as "gear jammer" (tourist driver) and "bubble queen" (laundry work at Mammoth lodge), then to Missoula where they & my sister & I boarded the North Coast Limited for Portland with bedroom suite in dome sleeper (below); also enjoyed the big baked potato. I remember Bonneville Dam on the Columbia (below). On return we took train to Seattle from Kelso/Longview and Olympian Hiawatha back to Missoula with 2 sections in 16-section "Mt. Wilson" Touralux sleeping car (below), less expensive than regular sleepers. The full-length dome allowed great views of great scenery in the Cascades, but the seats did not at all allow forward viewing the way the smaller Vista-Domes did. The highlight was the Skytop Lounge (below). Some years back my wife & I rode the parlor car version (car named Cedar Rapids as I recall) on a Friends of the 261 trip from Chicago to St. Paul and I was reminded that the glass-enclosed end of the car is smaller than those of the sleeping cars on the Olympian Hiawatha (simply because the number of bedrooms took up less space than the 20+ parlor chairs).View attachment 33675

Nice memory, thanks for sharing. Rather curious that your family drove all the way from Pittsburgh to Missoula, and rode the trains the remainder.

As for comparing observation cars, I am of the opinion that having the "railfan seat" (front window, either side) in any short dome car, is the best experience for viewing. The Budd full length domes on the Empire Builder (and San Francisco Chief) were second choice, as the longer car reduces visibility to the rear. In addition, the glass does not extend as far overhead. The full length Pullman-Standard domes on the Olympian Hiawatha glass curves higher overhead, but its front glass bottom starts higher, limiting the forward view, unless you are standing (watch your head!). And the poorest were the home built, converted "three quarter length" low profile domes on the SP whose high mounted "rifle slot" forward windows were almost useless for forward viewing.

As for the Skytop obs, or any rear obs, I was never a fan of seeing "where I was"...much prefer to see "where I'm going"...

 

[jpakala]

Thanks so much for your informative response! In 1964 Mom & I rode the Super Chief from KC to LA which had one dome car with parlor car swivel chairs but the front double-seats on either side were regular forward-facing & a bit higher as well, so forward viewing was perfect. The Baltimore & Ohio dome sleeper & D&RGW dome car on the Royal Gorge route between Denver & SLC were indeed not quite as high but the forward viewing was still good in my experience (the B&O had big outside lights for night viewing). As to our driving in 1959 to Missoula, we were (besides Yellowstone) visiting relatives in IA & SD as well Dad's brother & 2 sisters' families in Portland & Astoria (OR) and Kelson/Longview (WA). I do wish we'd boarded east of Missoula, though we also visited Dad's alma mater, MT State in Bozeman. It's possible that we boarded in Missoula so that we could take the Olympian Hiawatha as we came back from what was to be Tacoma, but they said: "Oh stay on this train as it will be easier to board in Seattle than at a separate depot in Tacoma." BTW on the Super Chief we had a real treat dining in the Turquoise Room (in the adjacent parlor dome car) where they seated us one midday when the diner had no seats left. Mom sat below the recessed panel with artwork of turquoise that Santa Fe featured in magazine ads. We had that room to ourselves.

 

[railiner]

The B&O domes were built by Pullman Standard, and the C&O domes were built by Budd. Both were "low profile" to meet the closer Eastern clearances. The C&O domes were purchased by the D&RGW for its "Royal Gorge". I agree that they both had good forward visibility.
The Santa Fe Super Chief "Pleasure Dome" was also a Pullman Standard product, a bit taller, but similar flat panes to the ones on the B&O. Their 2&1 luxurious seating meant only 18 dome seats, instead of the usual 24.

 

[Willbridge]

Speaking of dome trivia, every 5th day SP&S Trains 1 and 2 had a flat-top NP sleeper instead of a dome sleeper as a result of the crash near Paradise. It was literally a sobering reminder.

 

[JWM]

Way late on this but have taken the E.B. and C.O.P. before Amtrak and the "NC Hiawatha" after. Concur that the latter had the best scenery and that "Lounge in the Sky" knocked out two of the Duplex Single Rooms below the dome which I loved. Only The Pennsylvania had a sleeping car with 12 of them. Much more comfortable than roomettes and only a tad more expensive. As for food in all my pre–Amtrak Days I'd rank Santa Fe first, SAL/ACL second with the E.B. tied for third. C.O.P. had a much smaller menu. Honorable mention due to short run were the Burlington "Twin City Zephyrs" which had outstanding food for a daytime run. Loved the Observation Parlor Cars with dome, too.

 

[jpakala]

Mention of duplex rooms reminds me of the range of rooms there had been and the full single beds, full facilities in rooms, lack of any squeaks or rattles, substantial linens & blankets, pull-out armrests in sofas, shoe-storage boxes with opening to room & to aisle (shoes shined during the night, leather being so prevalent), etc. Amtrak's plans for new train cars disappointment me. Double-deck cars mean lower ceilings, tight stairways, most rooms cramped unless only one passenger, no plumbing in most rooms, etc. Single-level cars would have some of these problems but not the low ceilings & thus less vertical cramping. Hopefully improvement will occur before construction.

 

[WWW]

Only 1 of the 4 Sky Top cars (Cedar Rapids) remains active in use by the Friends of the 261
LINK: 261.com
The 261 roster has other Milwaukee Road cars active or in restorative stages.
The Cedar Rapids is notable for its 26 glass panels around the lounge area in the rear of the car.
The other Sky Top cars were - the Priest Rapids - Coon Rapids - Dell Rapids
History and LINK: Where are the Skytops?

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

This updated thread sent me down my biannual trip down the rabbit hole on Vista Domes's! Which was a pleasure of course...

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Back in the 1970s I was railfanning in the Enola Yard area near Harrisburg PA and came across this "fallen flag" still in good condition several years after the merger had obliterated the NP and Amtrak the "Vista Dome North Coast Limited".