The Silver Service (Florida Interstate Amtrak) Improvement thread

[GlobalistPotato]

Currently there are three trains that serve Florida: The Silver Star, Silver Meteor, and the Auto Train. Historically, there have been two other trains that have served Florida: The Sunset Limited and the Floridian (Florida-Chicago).

Apparently back in the SAL days, the LD Silver trains running between Florida and the Northeast were some of the few passenger trains still running in the black even just before A-day.

Part 1: NYP-MIA/TPA : The Silver Service

Why that is not so is a mystery to me...

Considering the growth in ridership of the Silver trains and their ability to sell out constantly, I would say that Amtrak should do the following once equipment and funding is available:

Lengthen the two existing Silver trains. Currently the normal passenger consist on the Silver Star is 2 sleepers and 3 coaches, while there are 3 sleepers and 4 coaches on the Meteor. Of course this goes along with the usual Diner, Lounge, and Baggage.

The Star will be upgraded to 3-4 sleepers and 4-5 coaches, and up to 6 sleepers and 8 coaches on the Meteor. This depends on ridership, and such long consists are most likely going to be seen during the peak travel periods... which happens to be most of the year...

In the medium term, a third Silver train can be introduced. I'm not yet certain on departure times and routing , but you can give your recommendations.

In the long run, the following can happen:

A forth Silver train, 110-125 mph trackage on the Meteor's route between WAS and TPA/MIA, with eventual electrification as well.

Restoring service to St Petersburg and the southwest coast of Florida.

Now in the really long term and ambitious, perhaps taking place outside of Amtrak...

Either true HSR between NYP and MIA/STP, or restoring railroad service to Key West.

Hehe.

Any recommendations?

I'll probably come up with a Part 2 soon, likely focusing on the Sunset East and a Chi-Florida train.

 

[zephyr17]

Currently there are three trains that serve Florida: The Silver Star, Silver Meteor, and the Auto Train. Historically, there have been two other trains that have served Florida: The Sunset Limited and the Floridian (Florida-Chicago).

Apparently back in the SAL days, the LD Silver trains running between Florida and the Northeast were some of the few passenger trains still running in the black even just before A-day.

Part 1: NYP-MIA/TPA : The Silver Service

Why that is not so is a mystery to me...

Considering the growth in ridership of the Silver trains and their ability to sell out constantly, I would say that Amtrak should do the following once equipment and funding is available:

Lengthen the two existing Silver trains. Currently the normal passenger consist on the Silver Star is 2 sleepers and 3 coaches, while there are 3 sleepers and 4 coaches on the Meteor. Of course this goes along with the usual Diner, Lounge, and Baggage.

The Star will be upgraded to 3-4 sleepers and 4-5 coaches, and up to 6 sleepers and 8 coaches on the Meteor. This depends on ridership, and such long consists are most likely going to be seen during the peak travel periods... which happens to be most of the year...

In the medium term, a third Silver train can be introduced. I'm not yet certain on departure times and routing , but you can give your recommendations.

In the long run, the following can happen:

A forth Silver train, 110-125 mph trackage on the Meteor's route between WAS and TPA/MIA, with eventual electrification as well.

Restoring service to St Petersburg and the southwest coast of Florida.

Now in the really long term and ambitious, perhaps taking place outside of Amtrak...

Either true HSR between NYP and MIA/STP, or restoring railroad service to Key West.

Hehe.

Any recommendations?

I'll probably come up with a Part 2 soon, likely focusing on the Sunset East and a Chi-Florida train.

Get CSX to improve their track maintenance. That run through the Carolinas, particular on the "S" line, is ROUGH.

Of course, the magic words are "funding" and "equipment". No money, no honey. Without that, it is all just pleasant daydreaming.

 

[Eric S]

In the not-so-distant past, there was a third "regular" Northeast - Florida train, the Palmetto (running as far as Jacksonville), which was extended deeper into Florida and renamed the Silver Palm (serving Tampa/Miami, can't recall if it served both, or just one of those cities). Believe the Silver Palm was cut back to Savannah in the late 1990s and renamed (back to) Palmetto at that time.

 

[Eric S]

In the long run, the following can happen:

A forth Silver train, 110-125 mph trackage on the Meteor's route between WAS and TPA/MIA, with eventual electrification as well.

Restoring service to St Petersburg and the southwest coast of Florida.

Now in the really long term and ambitious, perhaps taking place outside of Amtrak...

Either true HSR between NYP and MIA/STP, or restoring railroad service to Key West.

Hehe.

I'd suggest that a 110-125 mph electrified line all the way from WAS to TPA/MIA would qualify as a "really long term and ambitious" goal. I would think that adding a (third and) fourth Northeast-Florida train at 79-90 mph speeds need not be in the long run, though, and could occur in a more medium-term timeframe. However, that would depend how we are defining short-term, medium-term, and long-term.

 

[Rail Freak]

Just thinking out loud. (dont say it :giggle: ) The return of the SSLtd may help the volume of the Silvers!

 

[chrsjrcj]

A 3rd Silver train could perhaps follow the routing of the old Silver Palm. It would serve Waldo (~20 minutes away from Gainesville...University of Florida), the beautiful city of Ocala, and Wildwood (not far from the retirement community The Villages). After Wildwood the Silver Palm went down to Dade City, Tampa, and then followed the route of the current Silver Star to Miami. It served the those cities at about 2-6 in the morning going south and about about 8 pm to midnight going north. I don't know the exact date but it eventually lost its sleeping car and was renamed the Palmetto. Sometime in 2004, it ceased operating south of Savannah. Even if more civil times were introduced, I doubt CSX would want an Amtrak train on the S-Line, as it has become the primary route for freight in Florida due to the planned Sun Rail system in Orlando.

I'd like to see 2 trains a day serving Miami and Tampa. Perhaps the morning departure from Miami (assuming capacity improvements are made) could continue to Jacksonville via Ocala while the afternoon departure from Tampa to Miami originates in Jacksonville in the morning (again via Ocala). The morning departure from Tampa and the afternoon departure from Miami would just operate between Tampa and Miami.

More likely, if a new Silver is introduced or one of the current Silver trains are reconfigured, it will be to serve the east coast communities on the FEC. Based on the current reports that have been published (and I believe have been linked on this site), the plan is to split the Silver Star in Jacksonville and have one section use the FEC line (operating at 90 mph) and the other section following the current route to Miami (via Tampa). IMO, a better alternative would be for the Silver Meteor to split in Jacksonville, with one section going to Miami (via FEC) and another section terminating at Tampa (via Orlando). Assuming the Silver Palm is reintroduced (or some variant running on the S-Line to Tampa then Miami), the Silver Star could skip Tampa when traveling Jacksonville to Miami (via Orlando). You are now (re)introducing service to the East Coast and Ocala, while maintaining the important Tampa-Orlando, Orlando-Miami, and Tampa-Miami markets.

Personally, I would greatly benefit from a train that served Gainesville....err Waldo and the East Coast since thats where my family lives. Right now the only chance I have to ride Amtrak would just be a 2 hour ride to Lakeland followed by a 4 hour ride on a bus to Gainesville. Not worth it.

 

[BobWeaver]

In the long run, the following can happen:

A forth Silver train, 110-125 mph trackage on the Meteor's route between WAS and TPA/MIA, with eventual electrification as well.

Restoring service to St Petersburg and the southwest coast of Florida.

Now in the really long term and ambitious, perhaps taking place outside of Amtrak...

Either true HSR between NYP and MIA/STP, or restoring railroad service to Key West.

Hehe.

I'd suggest that a 110-125 mph electrified line all the way from WAS to TPA/MIA would qualify as a "really long term and ambitious" goal. I would think that adding a (third and) fourth Northeast-Florida train at 79-90 mph speeds need not be in the long run, though, and could occur in a more medium-term timeframe. However, that would depend how we are defining short-term, medium-term, and long-term.

Definitely a long term and (overly) ambitious goal. That would be the responsibility of CSX unless Amtrak gets an infusion of hundreds of billions of dollars into its budget. As I said before, the Star already runs with 4 coaches.

Lengthened trains would become a hassle at the existing station platform length, and double spots would likely have to be utilized, which would lengthen station stop times unless platforms are extended (seems like it wouldn't cost that much...?)

 

[GlobalistPotato]

In the long run, the following can happen:

A forth Silver train, 110-125 mph trackage on the Meteor's route between WAS and TPA/MIA, with eventual electrification as well.

Restoring service to St Petersburg and the southwest coast of Florida.

Now in the really long term and ambitious, perhaps taking place outside of Amtrak...

Either true HSR between NYP and MIA/STP, or restoring railroad service to Key West.

Hehe.

I'd suggest that a 110-125 mph electrified line all the way from WAS to TPA/MIA would qualify as a "really long term and ambitious" goal. I would think that adding a (third and) fourth Northeast-Florida train at 79-90 mph speeds need not be in the long run, though, and could occur in a more medium-term timeframe. However, that would depend how we are defining short-term, medium-term, and long-term.

Definitely a long term and (overly) ambitious goal. That would be the responsibility of CSX unless Amtrak gets an infusion of hundreds of billions of dollars into its budget. As I said before, the Star already runs with 4 coaches.

Lengthened trains would become a hassle at the existing station platform length, and double spots would likely have to be utilized, which would lengthen station stop times unless platforms are extended (seems like it wouldn't cost that much...?)

Of course. If the whole route was sped up, then that'd be part of some huge national rail project or something. The most Florida can do is to speed up the Silver trains to 110 mph through Florida.

Probably be more popular than the rejected Florida HSR proposal...

What are the length capacities of the stations along the Silver's route anyway?

Also, as someone said earlier, I agree that one of the trains should just run along the FEC between JAX and MIA. Perhaps this is where a third Silver train should go...

 

[BobWeaver]

I'd suggest that a 110-125 mph electrified line all the way from WAS to TPA/MIA would qualify as a "really long term and ambitious" goal. I would think that adding a (third and) fourth Northeast-Florida train at 79-90 mph speeds need not be in the long run, though, and could occur in a more medium-term timeframe. However, that would depend how we are defining short-term, medium-term, and long-term.

Definitely a long term and (overly) ambitious goal. That would be the responsibility of CSX unless Amtrak gets an infusion of hundreds of billions of dollars into its budget. As I said before, the Star already runs with 4 coaches.

Lengthened trains would become a hassle at the existing station platform length, and double spots would likely have to be utilized, which would lengthen station stop times unless platforms are extended (seems like it wouldn't cost that much...?)

Of course. If the whole route was sped up, then that'd be part of some huge national rail project or something. The most Florida can do is to speed up the Silver trains to 110 mph through Florida.

Probably be more popular than the rejected Florida HSR proposal...

What are the length capacities of the stations along the Silver's route anyway?

Also, as someone said earlier, I agree that one of the trains should just run along the FEC between JAX and MIA. Perhaps this is where a third Silver train should go...

What needs to happen first is to increase average train speed within existing speed limits (that is, 79mph) similar to what NC is doing with the NS mainline. It's much more cost effective than to try and gulp the investment needed for 110mph running through the whole state at one time. I guess the length capacities vary per station, but in a lot of stations, the platform is simply a concrete or asphalt slab on the ground that probably wouldn't cost much to extend. A station with an overhead cover would be more involved, though.

 

[Tracktwentynine]

I'd just like to point out that Florida does have a plan for improving service on the Silvers and intra-state train travel in Florida on the Florida East Coast Railway. I've already posted about this in another thread, and I'm just going to quote myself.

Back in August, Florida and Amtrak released a plan for restoring service on the FEC. You can view the report here. It's a PDF. "Attachment C" has conceptual schedules. 

Essentially, in the long term, the plan would result in:

Phase I

• Split the Silver Star at Jacksonville. Half the train runs down the FEC. It would get into Miami almost 4 hours before the Star via Tampa does.
• The other half of the Silver Star runs on its current schedule via Tampa.
• The Silver Meteor continues to run as a whole train between Jacksonville and Miami via Orlando.
• A new afternoon departure from Jacksonville to Miami via Cocoa.
• A new morning departure from Miami to Jacksonville via Cocoa.
• The Silver Meteor continues to run as a whole train between Miami and Jacksonville via Orlando.
• Half of the Silver Star runs from Miami to Jacksonville via Tampa.
• The other half leaves in the afternoon and is joined with the rest of the Star at Jacksonville.

Phase II

• Adds 3 southbound departures from Jacksonville to Miami via Cocoa.
• Phase III adds an evening departure from Jacksonville to Cocoa.
• Adds 3 northbound departures from Miami to Jacksonville via Cocoa.
• Phase III adds a morning departure from Cocoa to Jacksonville.

 

[GlobalistPotato]

I'd just like to point out that Florida does have a plan for improving service on the Silvers and intra-state train travel in Florida on the Florida East Coast Railway. I've already posted about this in another thread, and I'm just going to quote myself.

Back in August, Florida and Amtrak released a plan for restoring service on the FEC. You can view the report here. It's a PDF. "Attachment C" has conceptual schedules. 

Essentially, in the long term, the plan would result in:

Phase I

• Split the Silver Star at Jacksonville. Half the train runs down the FEC. It would get into Miami almost 4 hours before the Star via Tampa does.
• The other half of the Silver Star runs on its current schedule via Tampa.
• The Silver Meteor continues to run as a whole train between Jacksonville and Miami via Orlando.
• A new afternoon departure from Jacksonville to Miami via Cocoa.
• A new morning departure from Miami to Jacksonville via Cocoa.
• The Silver Meteor continues to run as a whole train between Miami and Jacksonville via Orlando.
• Half of the Silver Star runs from Miami to Jacksonville via Tampa.
• The other half leaves in the afternoon and is joined with the rest of the Star at Jacksonville.

Phase II

• Adds 3 southbound departures from Jacksonville to Miami via Cocoa.
• Phase III adds an evening departure from Jacksonville to Cocoa.
• Adds 3 northbound departures from Miami to Jacksonville via Cocoa.
• Phase III adds a morning departure from Cocoa to Jacksonville.

Pretty much what I was thinking.

Interstate-wise, CSX needs to keep up good trackwork and capacity standards, or other state governments can work towards their own improvements.

But most likely, I see longer Silver trains and another Silver train in the future.

 

[TVRM610]

Pretty much what I was thinking.

Interstate-wise, CSX needs to keep up good trackwork and capacity standards, or other state governments can work towards their own improvements.

But most likely, I see longer Silver trains and another Silver train in the future.

I don't think Amtrak is going to be able to "add" LD trains any time real soon. But perhaps the Palmetto could get extended once again. That would sort of be adding another Silver, depending on how far south it ran.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

When the new Viewliner II's come in Amtrak should run 3 separate LD trains to Florida. One from NYP to TPA via the current routing, one from NYP to MIA via the current routing and one NYP to MIA via the FEC.

When the Wisconsin Talgos and the Midwest bi-levels come online, Amtrak should reassign the Horizons to Florida for "Florida Regional Service" under the "Amtrak Florida" banner. The Horizons should be wrapped with a paint scheme to reflect the region and to cover up that awful coating they have now that makes them look so dingy. Trains could run MIA-TPA, MIA to JAX, and JAX to TPA along the same routes as the LD's with sufficient spacing from the LD's.

Once this set up is achieved then we can start talking electrification and 90-125mph speeds. Of course some track improvements will need to be made to have sufficient capacity to implement regional service in Florida.

I wonder if the PTC mandate will let Amtrak run 90mph in more places or if the freight railroads will restrict Amtrak to 79 even if the track class permits higher speeds? On railroads that run freight above 60mph the track would be class 5 for 90mph passenger trains. On railroads that don't run freight above 60mph the track class is most likely class 4 for 80mph passenger trains.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Amtrak originally ran much longer trains on the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star, but cut capacity to Florida significantly over the years. CSX did not help the cause with poor track that resulted in late trains. Florida really needs to follow the lead of California and set up Amtrak Florida with funding for improved Amtrak routes within the state and improving frequency. With the current Governor and legislation, that is not going to happen. The oil lobby and other lobbies have spent a lot of money to be sure passenger service in Florida doesn't get expanded. Intrastate Amtrak running times are significantly longer than driving times. The slight glimmer of hope is splitting the Silvers in Jacksonville and the Miami section traveling the faster FEC line which will not require any additional equipment. Who knows when and if this will become reality.

 

[Tony]

This depends on ridership, and such long consists are most likely going to be seen during the peak travel periods... which happens to be most of the year...

What exactly do you purpose to do with the extra cars during the non-peak travel periods? Remember, any such answer definitely would require that these extra cars continue to generate full revenue when not in use.

I don't think that Amtrak could ever been in a financial position that it could simply park "extra" cars (especially brand new ones like the Viewliner II's) on a side track, and have them not producing full revenue.

I don't know exactly what consist size would be right for the Silvers, but I do know that the consist must be consistent in size, and that size needs to be able to book at ~100% every day to maintain revenue.

 

[Anderson]

The big problem, from what I can tell, has been severe equipment problems leading to capacity crunches. To put it bluntly, I would be shocked if Amtrak started out with only fifty single-level sleepers.

 

[duke_gal_05]

Currently there are three trains that serve Florida: The Silver Star, Silver Meteor, and the Auto Train. Historically, there have been two other trains that have served Florida: The Sunset Limited and the Floridian (Florida-Chicago).

Apparently back in the SAL days, the LD Silver trains running between Florida and the Northeast were some of the few passenger trains still running in the black even just before A-day.

Part 1: NYP-MIA/TPA : The Silver Service

Why that is not so is a mystery to me...

Considering the growth in ridership of the Silver trains and their ability to sell out constantly, I would say that Amtrak should do the following once equipment and funding is available:

Lengthen the two existing Silver trains. Currently the normal passenger consist on the Silver Star is 2 sleepers and 3 coaches, while there are 3 sleepers and 4 coaches on the Meteor. Of course this goes along with the usual Diner, Lounge, and Baggage.

The Star will be upgraded to 3-4 sleepers and 4-5 coaches, and up to 6 sleepers and 8 coaches on the Meteor. This depends on ridership, and such long consists are most likely going to be seen during the peak travel periods... which happens to be most of the year...

In the medium term, a third Silver train can be introduced. I'm not yet certain on departure times and routing , but you can give your recommendations.

In the long run, the following can happen:

A forth Silver train, 110-125 mph trackage on the Meteor's route between WAS and TPA/MIA, with eventual electrification as well.

Restoring service to St Petersburg and the southwest coast of Florida.

Now in the really long term and ambitious, perhaps taking place outside of Amtrak...

Either true HSR between NYP and MIA/STP, or restoring railroad service to Key West.

Hehe.

Any recommendations?

I'll probably come up with a Part 2 soon, likely focusing on the Sunset East and a Chi-Florida train.

Get CSX to improve their track maintenance. That run through the Carolinas, particular on the "S" line, is ROUGH.

Of course, the magic words are "funding" and "equipment". No money, no honey. Without that, it is all just pleasant daydreaming.

Though I have YET to ride the rails...(first trip in June) I can attest to the condition of driving over some of the tracks in NC. OH MY!!! Some you think you're going to KNOCK the BOTTOM out of your car and others you think you will become AIRBORNE (lol No pun intended to the 82nd Airborne)..... With the financial situation of our state and THE GOVERNOR ... Probably won't be seeing any improvements on the states end of it.... MAYBE CSX would pitch in and do the improvements. SINCE I am new here not sure how all that works ... BUT I am LONGING for JUNE to get here!!!!!!! Can't wait to ride the rails... Seeing all the postings on here both good and bad.... STILL wanting to get on my Amtrak and ride ... THANKS for having this site available and for all the valuable information....

 

[Tracktwentynine]

This depends on ridership, and such long consists are most likely going to be seen during the peak travel periods... which happens to be most of the year...

What exactly do you purpose to do with the extra cars during the non-peak travel periods? Remember, any such answer definitely would require that these extra cars continue to generate full revenue when not in use.

I don't think that Amtrak could ever been in a financial position that it could simply park "extra" cars (especially brand new ones like the Viewliner II's) on a side track, and have them not producing full revenue.

I don't know exactly what consist size would be right for the Silvers, but I do know that the consist must be consistent in size, and that size needs to be able to book at ~100% every day to maintain revenue.

Remember, not all routes have the same peak. The true peak for Florida travel is in the winter. So perhaps in October-March, the Silvers get an extra Viewliner or 2. And then April-September, those cars are reassigned to the Cardinal or Lake Shore.

 

[VentureForth]

Amtrak originally ran much longer trains on the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star, but cut capacity to Florida significantly over the years. CSX did not help the cause with poor track that resulted in late trains. Florida really needs to follow the lead of California and set up Amtrak Florida with funding for improved Amtrak routes within the state and improving frequency. With the current Governor and legislation, that is not going to happen. The oil lobby and other lobbies have spent a lot of money to be sure passenger service in Florida doesn't get expanded. Intrastate Amtrak running times are significantly longer than driving times. The slight glimmer of hope is splitting the Silvers in Jacksonville and the Miami section traveling the faster FEC line which will not require any additional equipment. Who knows when and if this will become reality.

Sell outs are becoming much more frequent, and prices continue to soar. I believe that NOW is the time to start adding capacity. If you think about it, there is really no excuse to have a sell out a week in advance (Other than lack of equipment).

I still say the Meteor should be THE premier "high speed" train from NYP to Miami, skipping Orlando and taking the FEC. Then reinvent the Silver Palm or extend the Palmetto to Orlando for that extra Mickey Mouse traffic.

Honestly, think about it. If they could get the Meteor on the FEC to continue to sellout without serving Orlando, that could be the all important model for REAL HSR between WAS - MIA. That could then spurn a spur from JAX to TAMPA and then a small connector from Orlando to Miami would be REAL progress and REAL useful.

 

[me_little_me]

A new train would be better off going through Atlanta to Florida - or possibly by adding CHI-FLA, the new train would meet the Crescent so NEC to FLA would have an alternate and the route would pick up a lot of traffic from Midwest and Atlanta. Or reroute the Crescent from NYP->ATL->NOL to be NYP->ATL->FLA with a (non-sleeper) stub to NOL.

 

[Gratt]

Amtrak originally ran much longer trains on the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star, but cut capacity to Florida significantly over the years. CSX did not help the cause with poor track that resulted in late trains. Florida really needs to follow the lead of California and set up Amtrak Florida with funding for improved Amtrak routes within the state and improving frequency. With the current Governor and legislation, that is not going to happen. The oil lobby and other lobbies have spent a lot of money to be sure passenger service in Florida doesn't get expanded. Intrastate Amtrak running times are significantly longer than driving times. The slight glimmer of hope is splitting the Silvers in Jacksonville and the Miami section traveling the faster FEC line which will not require any additional equipment. Who knows when and if this will become reality.

Sell outs are becoming much more frequent, and prices continue to soar. I believe that NOW is the time to start adding capacity. If you think about it, there is really no excuse to have a sell out a week in advance (Other than lack of equipment).

I still say the Meteor should be THE premier "high speed" train from NYP to Miami, skipping Orlando and taking the FEC. Then reinvent the Silver Palm or extend the Palmetto to Orlando for that extra Mickey Mouse traffic.

Honestly, think about it. If they could get the Meteor on the FEC to continue to sellout without serving Orlando, that could be the all important model for REAL HSR between WAS - MIA. That could then spurn a spur from JAX to TAMPA and then a small connector from Orlando to Miami would be REAL progress and REAL useful.

I fully agree, Maybe this was not the right time to try HSR in Florida, so be it. That does not mean they cannot have a high quality LD system. Three trains from NYP is a must with one running on the FEC, I don't think a split will be enough. The next step is return service to the panhandle this can either be done though the SL or a daily train running just to NOL, which I think is better.

After that the focus should be on state service, with maybe a train to Atlanta as well. Once they do that, the motivation for HSR will be in full swing.

 

[GlobalistPotato]

Amtrak originally ran much longer trains on the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star, but cut capacity to Florida significantly over the years. CSX did not help the cause with poor track that resulted in late trains. Florida really needs to follow the lead of California and set up Amtrak Florida with funding for improved Amtrak routes within the state and improving frequency. With the current Governor and legislation, that is not going to happen. The oil lobby and other lobbies have spent a lot of money to be sure passenger service in Florida doesn't get expanded. Intrastate Amtrak running times are significantly longer than driving times. The slight glimmer of hope is splitting the Silvers in Jacksonville and the Miami section traveling the faster FEC line which will not require any additional equipment. Who knows when and if this will become reality.

Sell outs are becoming much more frequent, and prices continue to soar. I believe that NOW is the time to start adding capacity. If you think about it, there is really no excuse to have a sell out a week in advance (Other than lack of equipment).

I still say the Meteor should be THE premier "high speed" train from NYP to Miami, skipping Orlando and taking the FEC. Then reinvent the Silver Palm or extend the Palmetto to Orlando for that extra Mickey Mouse traffic.

Honestly, think about it. If they could get the Meteor on the FEC to continue to sellout without serving Orlando, that could be the all important model for REAL HSR between WAS - MIA. That could then spurn a spur from JAX to TAMPA and then a small connector from Orlando to Miami would be REAL progress and REAL useful.

I fully agree, Maybe this was not the right time to try HSR in Florida, so be it. That does not mean they cannot have a high quality LD system. Three trains from NYP is a must with one running on the FEC, I don't think a split will be enough. The next step is return service to the panhandle this can either be done though the SL or a daily train running just to NOL, which I think is better.

After that the focus should be on state service, with maybe a train to Atlanta as well. Once they do that, the motivation for HSR will be in full swing.

Well that's exactly what I was thinking... which leads me to...

Part 1: Returning service to NOL and CHI

About the Sunset Limited... Amtrak and the states are going to have to sort out their funding issue... Because Amtrak can't wait for the states to paid for resuming service when the states expect Amtrak to bring back their own original service.

The other alternative is to run a state-funded train from TPA/MIA to NOL... which requires reintroducing Amtrak-capable tracks and stations... which makes Amtrak able to simply not stop the Sunset Limited in NOL.

Ah-ha! Two problems solved at once! Sunset Limited returns to Florida and there's now a daylight service between Florida and NOL! I'm a political genius!

The Sunset Limited would go through MI, AL and the Panhandle of Florida in the night and arrive in JAX by morning, arriving at MIA and TPA within the afternoon.

The daily MIA/TPA-NOL train would leave either station in the morning and arrive at its destination in the evening or at night (before midnight)...

Restoring service to Chicago will be more difficult from a state-sponsored perspective, because GA and TN are not rail-friendly. I dunno about KY, and I've heard IN isn't that excited about rail either.

If there is a path taken to restore rail service between Florida and CHI, then it should start as two projects, one being a CHI-IND-LOU daily train and the other being a daily TPA/MIA-JAX-SAV-MAC-ATL train.

 

[Eric S]

The Sunset Limited would go through MI, AL and the Panhandle of Florida in the night and arrive in JAX by morning, arriving at MIA and TPA within the afternoon.

MS, yes.

MI, highly doubtful.

(MS = Mississippi; MI = Michigan)

 

[Eric S]

Restoring service to Chicago will be more difficult from a state-sponsored perspective, because GA and TN are not rail-friendly. I dunno about KY, and I've heard IN isn't that excited about rail either.
If there is a path taken to restore rail service between Florida and CHI, then it should start as two projects, one being a CHI-IND-LOU daily train and the other being a daily TPA/MIA-JAX-SAV-MAC-ATL train.

Even if all states in question were "rail-friendly" (willing to use state funds to sponsor Amtrak trains), it would seem to be very difficult to get all states to agree on the schedule for a long-distance train. It would be difficult to schedule a train so that all states are served at decent times, and I would imagine it would be hard to convince even a rail-friendly state to fund a train that only passed through overnight.

 

[had8ley]

Just thinking out loud. (dont say it :giggle: ) The return of the SSLtd may help the volume of the Silvers!

Can you think any louder ??? It's a long way to 60 Massachusetts Avenue :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: