Train 172(2) Fatality in Mansfield, MA

[Triley]

This is happening way too frequently... It's a real shame.

http://www.boston.com/news/2016/03/02/pedestrian-struck-amtrak-train-mansfield/1Yntw9H952FHrGerGJuzkJ/story.html

Created a real snarl. My train, 179, is crawling by the station now approximately 1:30 late.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Who could even become more idiotic than that? I've been hearing and hearing about stuff like this! How can people not even look and see if a train is coming?

And this is also going to get even worse in the Quiet Zones, because one thing is, you can't hear the train. The engineer taps the horn in a QZ if it's an emergency, but sometimes, it's too late when the emergency comes.

 

[Triley]

This was at the station, where the Regionals are cleared for 125mph. If they looked and thought it was an MBTA train they may have thought it was going a lot slower (since they stop at that station.)

 

[greatcats]

We had a little reported tragedy here in Flagstaff during the latter part of February. As some of you know the former Santa Fe mainline ( BNSF ) through here is an extremely busy freight line, plus the two Amtrak trains. It is rare to drive into town and not see one or more freight trains. I am not aware of any train-vehicle accidents in recent years, but two o r three years ago somebody walked right into a freight at the east end of the passenger station. When I saw a freight stopped in the middle of town blocking crossings I knew something was wrong. ( fatality )

I volunteer a few hours per week at the Flagstaff Shelter, which is across I40 from my home, in an industrial area between the Interstate and the railroad. I did not know the lady involved in this tragedy, but she was a young lady earnestly trying to get her life together and was working at a local hotel. The Director wrote her a pass at 8am so she could arrive back later in the evening. Less than 15 minutes later, she was on foot at the nearest railroad crossing, Fanning Drive. Apparently she had left in a big hurry to get to her job and a freight passed by and all the crossing here have gates. When the last car of the train passed she started to walk across the tracks, unaware that another train was coming in the opposite direction and was struck by the second train and killed. 911 received a call from BNSF and her body was found under the train.

Again, an unnecessary tragedy caused by being in too much of a hurry. I am told, by our upset Director, that she had a young child.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

We had a little reported tragedy here in Flagstaff during the latter part of February. As some of you know the former Santa Fe mainline ( BNSF ) through here is an extremely busy freight line, plus the two Amtrak trains. It is rare to drive into town and not see one or more freight trains. I am not aware of any train-vehicle accidents in recent years, but two o r three years ago somebody walked right into a freight at the east end of the passenger station. When I saw a freight stopped in the middle of town blocking crossings I knew something was wrong. ( fatality )

I volunteer a few hours per week at the Flagstaff Shelter, which is across I40 from my home, in an industrial area between the Interstate and the railroad. I did not know the lady involved in this tragedy, but she was a young lady earnestly trying to get her life together and was working at a local hotel. The Director wrote her a pass at 8am so she could arrive back later in the evening. Less than 15 minutes later, she was on foot at the nearest railroad crossing, Fanning Drive. Apparently she had left in a big hurry to get to her job and a freight passed by and all the crossing here have gates. When the last car of the train passed she started to walk across the tracks, unaware that another train was coming in the opposite direction and was struck by the second train and killed. 911 received a call from BNSF and her body was found under the train.

Again, an unnecessary tragedy caused by being in too much of a hurry. I am told, by our upset Director, that she had a young child.

Well for one thing, Flagstaff is a Quiet Zone. That's pretty much what happens when cities ban horns. Told ya.

People that live near active railroad tracks are nothing but a bunch of whiners. If they knew the tracks were active, why did they move there in the first place?

If this keeps going on, we need to bring the horns back! Right now!

 

[keelhauled]

Last fall two people were hit by a train (one killed) just south of where I live while on a bridge. Another was killed just north of me earlier in the year. Neither one of those locations were quiet zones. People can make mistakes outside of quiet zones just as easily as they can within them.

Edit: in any event, the FRA specifically notes that in event of an emergency engineers are allowed to use their horn in a quiet zone, and I have a hard time believing that someone on the tracks wouldn't qualify.

 

[greatcats]

CSX Foamer......hold the phone, please. I really don't care for your flip remarks here. A homeless lady who was trying to get her life in order is gone, yes, quite likely by her own mistake and haste. This is a tragedy, not something to make snide remarks about.

You seem to know something about Flagstaff, and you are partially correct in that measures were taken within the past ten years to quiet down the railroad noise. Within the city limits there are one highway underpass, two overhead bridges, and five grade crossings. An ordinance or agreement was reached with BNSF to reduce the noise. Frankly, I recall the frequent locomotive horns right in the middle of town as rather obnoxious. The two crossings adjacent to the passenger station are marked " No Train Horn " as is the one about a mile east on a major street. In addition to the horn signs, there are others warning pedestrians to stand away from the tracks, and the conventional gates and ringing bells. This does not seem to be a problem. The two crossings east of there adjacent to Route 66 are less heavily traveled and are equipped with train horns attached to the gate mechanisms, which create a train horn sound, but it is less obtrusive than those from the locomotives. ( There are also large " X " blinking signals on the railroad, which I theorize signal engineers if this apparatus is working properly. ) I can hear these horns from my home approximately one mile away, but they are not annoying in my opinion. Some people may, but I too have lived around trains most of my life and am a retired employee. In my view, BNSF is a good neighbor here.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Last fall two people were hit by a train (one killed) just south of where I live while on a bridge. Another was killed just north of me earlier in the year. Neither one of those locations were quiet zones. People can make mistakes outside of quiet zones just as easily as they can within them.

Edit: in any event, the FRA specifically notes that in event of an emergency engineers are allowed to use their horn in a quiet zone, and I have a hard time believing that someone on the tracks wouldn't qualify.

Only thing is, sometimes, the emergency occurs too late.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

CSX Foamer......hold the phone, please. I really don't care for your flip remarks here. A homeless lady who was trying to get her life in order is gone, yes, quite likely by her own mistake and haste. This is a tragedy, not something to make snide remarks about.

You seem to know something about Flagstaff, and you are partially correct in that measures were taken within the past ten years to quiet down the railroad noise. Within the city limits there are one highway underpass, two overhead bridges, and five grade crossings. An ordinance or agreement was reached with BNSF to reduce the noise. Frankly, I recall the frequent locomotive horns right in the middle of town as rather obnoxious. The two crossings adjacent to the passenger station are marked " No Train Horn " as is the one about a mile east on a major street. In addition to the horn signs, there are others warning pedestrians to stand away from the tracks, and the conventional gates and ringing bells. This does not seem to be a problem. The two crossings east of there adjacent to Route 66 are less heavily traveled and are equipped with train horns attached to the gate mechanisms, which create a train horn sound, but it is less obtrusive than those from the locomotives. ( There are also large " X " blinking signals on the railroad, which I theorize signal engineers if this apparatus is working properly. ) I can hear these horns from my home approximately one mile away, but they are not annoying in my opinion. Some people may, but I too have lived around trains most of my life and am a retired employee. In my view, BNSF is a good neighbor here.

And realize, crossing gates are not always going to be reliable. Crossings tend to malfunction. But the engineer may not realize it till it's too late. That's pretty much why you shouldn't always rely on gates and lights. And besides, people may find out those wayside horns are fake. They don't even sound like a realistic horn. For one thing, they also lack Doppler effect.

 

[CCC1007]

CSX Foamer......hold the phone, please. I really don't care for your flip remarks here. A homeless lady who was trying to get her life in order is gone, yes, quite likely by her own mistake and haste. This is a tragedy, not something to make snide remarks about.

You seem to know something about Flagstaff, and you are partially correct in that measures were taken within the past ten years to quiet down the railroad noise. Within the city limits there are one highway underpass, two overhead bridges, and five grade crossings. An ordinance or agreement was reached with BNSF to reduce the noise. Frankly, I recall the frequent locomotive horns right in the middle of town as rather obnoxious. The two crossings adjacent to the passenger station are marked " No Train Horn " as is the one about a mile east on a major street. In addition to the horn signs, there are others warning pedestrians to stand away from the tracks, and the conventional gates and ringing bells. This does not seem to be a problem. The two crossings east of there adjacent to Route 66 are less heavily traveled and are equipped with train horns attached to the gate mechanisms, which create a train horn sound, but it is less obtrusive than those from the locomotives. ( There are also large " X " blinking signals on the railroad, which I theorize signal engineers if this apparatus is working properly. ) I can hear these horns from my home approximately one mile away, but they are not annoying in my opinion. Some people may, but I too have lived around trains most of my life and am a retired employee. In my view, BNSF is a good neighbor here.

And realize, crossing gates are not always going to be reliable. Crossings tend to malfunction. But the engineer may not realize it till it's too late. That's pretty much why you shouldn't always rely on gates and lights. And besides, people may find out those wayside horns are fake. They don't even sound like a realistic horn. For one thing, they also lack Doppler effect.

Which is why the flashing red X is displayed in both directions for both tracks. My understanding is that if those are not showing properly then the quiet zone rules are thrown out the window.

 

[keelhauled]

Only thing is, sometimes, the emergency occurs too late.

For the train to stop? Yes, but that would be true at any time under any circumstances. For someone to get out of the way? Not necessarily.

 

[greatcats]

CSX - Read my message a little more closely. In the case of this recent accident, details were very sparse, but it is safe to figure the gates were working properly, but the trouble was, there were two trains present and the victim made a terrible, rash mistake. Often these trains have pusher locomotives on the rear, creating more noise. I see that you are 18 and it is obvious that you are well intentioned, but some of us here on this forum find some of your comments off the beam. I too am guilty of shooting my mouth off, particularly during my early years of working on the railroad and being the know it all who did not. I still don't. And yes, I do hear locomotives some of the time blowing their horns out there on the mainline. For you, contribute, yes, but Listen, please! And have a nice day.......

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

CSX - Read my message a little more closely. In the case of this recent accident, details were very sparse, but it is safe to figure the gates were working properly, but the trouble was, there were two trains present and the victim made a terrible, rash mistake. Often these trains have pusher locomotives on the rear, creating more noise. I see that you are 18 and it is obvious that you are well intentioned, but some of us here on this forum find some of your comments off the beam. I too am guilty of shooting my mouth off, particularly during my early years of working on the railroad and being the know it all who did not. I still don't. And yes, I do hear locomotives some of the time blowing their horns out there on the mainline. For you, contribute, yes, but Listen, please! And have a nice day.......

Yes, yes. The engine creates more noise as it passes you. However, try comparing it to a horn. A horn is as loud as 96+ decibels from 100 feet as required by FRA. Some can be as loud as 125 decibels from 100 ft (even though FRA *requires* 110 decibels from 100 ft) from what I've heard before. How loud is a roaring diesel engine compared to a horn? If a horn is louder than an engine, you couldn't very easily miss it.

 

[CCC1007]

There are stationary horns at some crossings that meet those requirements without causing disruptive noise for MILES in every direction.

 

[greatcats]

That is what I am referring to at the two East Flagstaff crossings, stationary horns. Our young friend can quote all the scientific statistics he wants, but the fact remains that a young lady in her haste and confusion, and yes, carelessness, resulted in a loss of life.

I said in an earlier post that the train horns in this city used to be obnoxious. The way it is now, the trains really do not make that much racket passing through downtown, especially those on a downgrade. And there are MANY freights each day. The Amtrak blows two short blasts upon departing.

 

[AG1]

Bringing this thread back on topic, there are no crossings involved at Mansfield,MA. There is a pedestrian underpass too reach the other side platform. This person chose to cross the tracks which are marked with signs too prohibit doing so. There is also fencing between the tracks the length of the platform and a PA system that announces "Train approaching" long before a train can be seen. The station area was closed as a crime scene until the human biomatter could be removed by power washing the cars in the parking lot near the tracks. Commuters had to leave their cars overnight.

 

[afigg]

Updated story at boston.com with a diagram of the affected parked cars that were impounded until they could be, umm, cleaned: Mansfield commuter rail station will be closed Thursday morning after person fatally struck. This was a very unpleasant high speed collision with someone apparently seeking to take a short cut across the tracks. Just stupid and sad.

 

[neroden]

I've mentioned before that in San Diego I watched a woman wearing headphones and walking two dogs *jog* around lowered gates to cross *four tracks*, all four of which had trains coming.

I do not understand some people. Is it innate behavior? Learned behavior? Lead poisoning?

 

[NW cannonball]

I've mentioned before that in San Diego I watched a woman wearing headphones and walking two dogs *jog* around lowered gates to cross *four tracks*, all four of which had trains coming.

I do not understand some people. Is it innate behavior? Learned behavior? Lead poisoning?

Probably all those, plus, being distracted by more important personal problems ("they'll fire me if I don't get to work on time"), momentary lapses of awareness like happens to most of us from time to time, suicide by train (maybe hoping the insurance will call it an accident and pay out), intoxication, plain old idiocy, and the classic "train on other track"

About the "train on other track" -- I've seen several warning videos about that - one from LIRR a decade ago (with the head-end warning "may be disturbing to some viewers")

The Minneapolis Blue Line has big flashing signs at many pedestrian crossings "second train" they flash. Maybe it helps. Would such have helped the case that greatcats cites? Who can know?

In grade school, we were taught to "look both ways" before crossing a street, or the tracks. Is that still on the elementary curriculum? dunno.

 

[AG1]

video not accepted

 

[jis]

Considering how many of these accidents occur at crossings where there are no restrictions on horns, I think this whole argument that suggests that just blowing the horn hard will fix the problem is somewhat unrealistic. Remember, most of these accidents happen where there is no quiet zone, and even in places where there is no railroad crossing at all (Consider all of these accidents on the NEC South and most of NEC North), and yet each time one happens in a quiet zone some wise a$$ comes up with the worn out argument about getting rid of quiet zones.

 

[Bob Dylan]

In the South in the Old days the grade crossings had Cross Bucks ( ask your grandpa kiddies) with "Stop, Look and Listen" painted on them.

With today's vehicles basically being rolling living rooms and people walking around in comas with their headphones and electronic devices, Trains "offing" trespassers is almost a daily occurrence!

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Considering how many of these accidents occur at crossings where there are no restrictions on horns, I think this whole argument that suggests that just blowing the horn hard will fix the problem is somewhat unrealistic. Remember, most of these accidents happen where there is no quiet zone, and even in places where there is no railroad crossing at all (Consider all of these accidents on the NEC South and most of NEC North), and yet each time one happens in a quiet zone some wise a$$ comes up with the worn out argument about getting rid of quiet zones.

Well, I did read somewhere that crossing accidents would become a higher chance in a Quiet Zone, so no need to get all snobbish!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Considering how many of these accidents occur at crossings where there are no restrictions on horns, I think this whole argument that suggests that just blowing the horn hard will fix the problem is somewhat unrealistic. Remember, most of these accidents happen where there is no quiet zone, and even in places where there is no railroad crossing at all (Consider all of these accidents on the NEC South and most of NEC North), and yet each time one happens in a quiet zone some wise a$$ comes up with the worn out argument about getting rid of quiet zones.

Well, I did read somewhere that crossing accidents would become a higher chance in a Quiet Zone, so no need to get all snobbish!

Source? If you want to be taken seriously, then you need to start providing sources for your information. And I don't think Wiki qualifies as a reliable source.

 

[CSXfoamer1997]

Considering how many of these accidents occur at crossings where there are no restrictions on horns, I think this whole argument that suggests that just blowing the horn hard will fix the problem is somewhat unrealistic. Remember, most of these accidents happen where there is no quiet zone, and even in places where there is no railroad crossing at all (Consider all of these accidents on the NEC South and most of NEC North), and yet each time one happens in a quiet zone some wise a$$ comes up with the worn out argument about getting rid of quiet zones.

Well, I did read somewhere that crossing accidents would become a higher chance in a Quiet Zone, so no need to get all snobbish!

Source? If you want to be taken seriously, then you need to start providing sources for your information. And I don't think Wiki qualifies as a reliable source.

Here's a good example.

http://fox6now.com/2013/09/15/train-horn-quiet-zones-pose-increased-danger/