Trump and Amtrak/Budget cutting funding

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So you have a feeling that something will be cut therefore you think that anyone that thinks otherwise and is willing to wait and see, or try to do something about it, is stupid? OK, so noted ;)

Maybe something will get cut. But it is too early to throw in the towel already. We the few, who will actually go and talk to the Senators and Congressmen in April face to face, cannot go in with the assumption that something will be cut. That cannot be our starting position, 'cause then something will definitely get cut. Even those that are writing their Congresspeople, please do not tell them that well it is OK to cut half the trains. Stick to your guns and say nothing should be cut, if you feel we should keep Amtrak happy and healthy to the best of our abilities.

For the rest, it really does not matter since you are a non-participant in the decision making process.
 
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I will repeat: not only is this budget *completely* DOA in Congress, it doesn't even represent what Trump wants. I am absolutely sure he didn't even read it. It was just Xeroxed from some Heritage Foundation document.

Call your Congressman and demand full funding for Amtrak (and whatever else is cut in the "idiots' budget" proposed by the Trump administration). Heck, call Trump. The "idiots' budget" is sufficiently contrary to Trump's repeatedly stated desires that we know he won't fight for it and might fight against it.

In fact, I'd suggest pointing out to your Congressman that Trump wants more funding for infrastructure and specifically wants high speed trains. Regardless of what the "idiots' budget" presented by his staffers says.
 
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We the few, who will actually go and talk to the Senators and Congressmen in April face to face, cannot go in with the assumption that something will be cut. That cannot be our starting position, 'cause then something will definitely get cut. Even those that are writing their Congresspeople, please do not tell them that well it is OK to cut half the trains. Stick to your guns and say nothing should be cut, if you feel we should keep Amtrak happy and healthy to the best of our abilities.
Absolutely. If anything, the opposite approach should be used. "Ridership is up! Equipment is getting older and more costly to maintain; therefore the budget should be increased, not zeroed out!"

I will repeat: not only is this budget *completely* DOA in Congress, it doesn't even represent what Trump wants. I am absolutely sure he didn't even read it. It was just Xeroxed from some Heritage Foundation document.

Call your Congressman and demand full funding for Amtrak (and whatever else is cut in the "idiots' budget" proposed by the Trump administration). Heck, call Trump. The "idiots' budget" is sufficiently contrary to Trump's repeatedly stated desires that we know he won't fight for it and might fight against it.

In fact, I'd suggest pointing out to your Congressman that Trump wants more funding for infrastructure and specifically wants high speed trains. Regardless of what the "idiots' budget" presented by his staffers says.
To piggyback on the above, the sentiment is sound but the approach is somewhat lacking. Using the Bernie Approach is less effective in real life than it sounds on the stump. "Demanding" things rarely gets a positive response, particularly from someone not motivated to give it to you in the first place. Likewise, terms such as "idiots' budget" does not predispose one to think in positive terms about the situation.

Let's assume, at least for a moment, the most positive things about POTUS and the budget. (Yes, I know that's a Herculean task for some.) Let's assume that what was said on the campaign trail was true and that the President values passenger rail transport and let's also assume that he is sincere in funding and rebuilding infrastructure. Let's additionally assume that POTUS has not read details about the budget.

Now let's tie that into talking points for the people making the decision. When Congressman Dontreallygiveacarp says something like "I agree with the budget proposal as presented by the Administration and its goals" then a rejoinder might be "Are you aware of what President Trump said about passenger rail and infrastructure during the campaign?" "Don't you feel that he was somewhat correct in needing to rebuild our infrastructure and focus on things at home?" At this point few would say that what has been stated is an unreasonable goal or say "I think we should take the long distance rail budget and put it towards more foreign aid" so then facts can be presented about passenger numbers, effect on smaller communities with few travel options, and how infrastructure is a national issue and how rebuilding it puts America Back To Work and helps strengthen both the economy and the elements which keep it moving, etc, etc.

By that time, there should be food for thought for someone who might not have given it much thought at all and who would be otherwise inclined to just say "no" to anything other than the budget as presented. This approach works on both people making the sausage as well as those selecting the sausage to send out into the marketplace. You've given them a reason or two to fund passenger rail on terms they can reconcile with their own principles which in turn they can go home to proclaim how they furthered the President's agenda (or in the case of opponents, say they furthered their goals to benefit the American people despite the 'draconian' budget originally presented). Heck, if they get constituent contact which says "thank you for giving me a choice in my transportation options" and they can say they were happy to do so and are proud to have always supported such things as passenger rail, let 'em. They can lie about their support, but as long as it's there and the objective was met, it doesn't really make a difference.
 
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These are very different times from anything else in the past 56, or so years.
Really? Even during the early 70s, when railroads were going bankrupt left and right, oil was cheap, air travel was king and Americans were convinced that if they couldn't drive somewhere, they could always fly there---quite likely via their own car within 30 years? Everyone was convinced that a century-old technology was on its way out and cobbling together Amtrak was the way to put an end to all this silliness about rail travel once and for all and just wind 'er down.

Given just that point in time (even aside from the early Reagan years), I'm perfectly fine living in the current era.
 
Exactly. The budget plans released so far indicate the administration's general philosophy regarding spending and as it pertains to Amtrak, the "improvements" it involves are cutting long distance trains.
I've been listening to various political annalists' comments and the general consensus is that Trump's budget proposal is just so much political posturing and will be DOA in Congress. POTUS does not control the purse strings, Congress does. Trump's budget proposal is just a statement of his political philosophy, nothing more. The more he sends crazy tweets the more Congress may be inclined to ignore him.
 
Clearly with the budget proposed there will be some funding provided in the usual give and take of budgets, but there will be cuts, and other reductions
Source please?

You have already determined there will be cuts and tri-weekly trains (even though such an approach failed to produce the expected savings before) from a DOA budget proposal which Congress has hardly begun to even consider. Amtrak doesn't know what its budget will be next year, neither does the administration, Congress, the Department of Transportation, or anybody else. With respect, either you are just expressing an opinion as fact without any basis to support your arguments, or you can predict the future. So, again, source please?

These are very different times from anything else in the past 56, or so years.
What - specifically - is so fundamentally different about 2017 than 1981?
 
Exactly. The budget plans released so far indicate the administration's general philosophy regarding spending and as it pertains to Amtrak, the "improvements" it involves are cutting long distance trains.
I've been listening to various political annalists' comments and the general consensus is that Trump's budget proposal is just so much political posturing and will be DOA in Congress. POTUS does not control the purse strings, Congress does. Trump's budget proposal is just a statement of his political philosophy, nothing more. The more he sends crazy tweets the more Congress may be inclined to ignore him.
Sure. Even in, oh, let's say more normal times, Congress significantly adjusts any administration's budget proposals. And this budget proposal will certainly be adjusted as well - perhaps even largely ignored. My point was not that administration's budget plans will be enacted exactly as presented, but rather that the budget proposal represents the administration's views with regards to Amtrak LD service.
 
If we are conducting a trial on this thread, is it not better to wait for the verdict before passing judgement?. I don't know what the future of Amtrak will hold and neither does anyone else on this forum. We can lobby for Amtrak support but congress will ultimately decide the transportation budget.

If Amtrak is covering 94% of its costs then the answer for the fiscally conservative is simple; add 6% to the price of tickets and be done with it. I don't want to keep paying more but I would accept that to preserve whats left of our domestic long distance passenger rail system.
 
If Amtrak could add 6% to their ticket prices they would already be doing that. And I believe it would require a much larger % ticket increase than 6% to break even.
 
This budget debate has me going back to the same question I have always wondered about.

Even though there is no way to give a 100% accurate answer, what do the more knowledgeable of you think would be the best ways to use more rolling stock/locomotives (over and above the currently long awaited new cars) if the additional funding were found to buy them? Would adding more trains a day on the Silvers return more revenue, or would it be a second daily Empire Builder or a second California Zephyr? If Trump actually rolls over and allows Amtrak funds needed to buy 12 new trains worth of equipment over the next 2 years, where would you get the best bang for your buck?

Where should the money the Feds put into Amtrak go if Amtrak actually looked to approach profitability and the Feds gave them just enough money to take a shot at it? Sorry if this is a stupid or off topic question but I really think a lot of the level of knowledge on this site and would like to know what some of you think would be a good path forward to breaking even and expanding Amtrak, hopefully at the same time.

On edit: Thanks for the links you entered, Philly Amtrak Fan! I am working my way through them. I should have searched a bit better before I asked the question.
 
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This budget debate has me going back to the same question I have always wondered about.

Even though there is no way to give a 100% accurate answer, what do the more knowledgeable of you think would be the best ways to use more rolling stock/locomotives (over and above the currently long awaited new cars) if the additional funding were found to buy them? Would adding more trains a day on the Silvers return more revenue, or would it be a second daily Empire Builder or a second California Zephyr? If Trump actually rolls over and allows Amtrak funds needed to buy 12 new trains worth of equipment over the next 2 years, where would you get the best bang for your buck?

Where should the money the Feds put into Amtrak go if Amtrak actually looked to approach profitability and the Feds gave them just enough money to take a shot at it? Sorry if this is a stupid or off topic question but I really think a lot of the level of knowledge on this site and would like to know what some of you think would be a good path forward to breaking even and expanding Amtrak, hopefully at the same time.
Here's some threads for that purpose for further discussion:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/63749-what-would-you-add/

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/67778-wish-list-for-amtraktrain-service-expansions/

There's probably many others.

That way we can stick to budget and funding at this thread.
 
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These are very different times from anything else in the past 56, or so years.
What - specifically - is so fundamentally different about 2017 than 1981?
In a nutshell, this:

ImageUploadedByAmtrak Forum1490126444.650466.jpg

We are more polarized as a nation than ever. Our Congress reflects that and makes the "business as usual argument somewhat suspect.

This article (from which the above graphic was taken) is a good read on the topic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2015/04/23/a-stunning-visualization-of-our-divided-congress/
 
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Where should the money the Feds put into Amtrak go if Amtrak actually looked to approach profitability and the Feds gave them just enough money to take a shot at it? Sorry if this is a stupid or off topic question but I really think a lot of the level of knowledge on this site and would like to know what some of you think would be a good path forward to breaking even and expanding Amtrak, hopefully at the same time.
Where should the money the Feds put into Interstate 10 go if Interstate 10 actually looked to approach profitability and the Feds gave it just enough money to take a shot at it? Here in Texas we've had a lot of attempts at creating new roads to mirror the "everything must earn a profit" gilded age mantra and so far they've all failed. Not in just a little way, but failed so spectacularly that the federal taxpayers who unknowingly funded them have probably lost any chance of recouping their original investment, let alone making any sort of profit.

Also no internet, PCs, smart phones or other mobile devices in 1981. Or this board to allow discussions of this type.
Usenet Newsgroups started in 1980
You seem to be missing the point intentionally.
 
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The typical person would not have access to the Usenet in 1980. I remember accessing my university mainframe for a simple program in 1978-79 that handled baseball stats. I used punch cards and got a fraction of a second of time on the mainframe!

That was a different time to be sure.
 
The typical person would not have access to the Usenet in 1980. I remember accessing my university mainframe for a simple program in 1978-79 that handled baseball stats. I used punch cards and got a fraction of a second of time on the mainframe!

That was a different time to be sure.
In the mid '70s I was using a HASP network that connected the universities in Florida to submit batch jobs from one site to another. By the mid-'80s I got access to NSFNet. That was about the same time I started using Usenet. There was a time when newsgroup activity went through a very noticeable decline during the Summer, Spring and Christmas academic breaks, when students lost access to their university accounts.
 
Yes, all these things and many others were different or didn't exist in the early 1980's - but how do they affect the federal budgetary process in general and Amtrak in particular? McDonald's didn't serve breakfast all day back then, but that little bit of trivia has no impact whatsoever on the passage of a bill in Congress.

The lack of internet groups changes the format and accessibility of discussion (forums or websites instead of newsletters, etc.), but that doesn't necessarily mean it affects the tone or outcome of debate (I'm sure there are studies somewhere). A more polarized society and Congress is more pertinent, but even then, on what basis do we conclude it has an overall negative impact on Amtrak legislation? The United States Congress has always had poor party discipline; There are frequently - and remain - a handful of members who vote against their own party and side with the opposition, but often not enough to make a difference. The debates may be more contentious, but a good politician still knows when to compromise.
 
If Amtrak could add 6% to their ticket prices they would already be doing that. And I believe it would require a much larger % ticket increase than 6% to break even.
I am no accountant but please explain the math to me. If Amtrak is able to cover 94% of its expenses that means they are 4% short. Ticket sales are the main source of revenue so if you increase that revenue by 4% it would seem that Amtrak would be operating at or near the break even point. There might be other small revenue sources that factor in but they would probably be insignificant.
 
Well, they're 6% short, not 4%, but even then, whenever fares are raised there's a portion of the ridership that decides that it's too expensive. Here Metro Transit is proposing a 25 cent raise in the bus and light rail fare (in our system, that's roughly a 12.5% increase.) That is expected to drop ridership about 4.7%, so some of that increase is lost because some people will simply find alternate means of transportation. While the exact percentages would be different for Amtrak, the general philosophy would still hold true - increase fares and some people will seek out alternatives.
 
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If Amtrak could add 6% to their ticket prices they would already be doing that. And I believe it would require a much larger % ticket increase than 6% to break even.
I am no accountant but please explain the math to me. If Amtrak is able to cover 94% of its expenses that means they are 4% short. Ticket sales are the main source of revenue so if you increase that revenue by 4% it would seem that Amtrak would be operating at or near the break even point. There might be other small revenue sources that factor in but they would probably be insignificant.
It's not simply accounting, but economics - namely supply and demand. Increasing the price will obviously lessen demand.

Every form of transportation receives some sort of government subsidy. Amtrak's is just more direct, which bus and air travel are often indirect.
 
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