Uncontrolled dogs

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FormerOBS

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I heard from a very reliable source that an Auto Train OBS attendant was bitten by a dog recently. According to my source, the dog's owner has failed to provide information about the dog's health; so in order to be safe, the attendant will have to endure the entire regimen to prevent rabies. I do not know whether the dog was represented to be a service animal, but it is my understanding that non-service animals are not supposed to be carried on trips longer than 7 hours.

There's not much about this story that makes logical sense to me, but there it is. That's the life of OBS.

Tom
 

John Bobinyec

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That brings up a question. In most communities, if a dog bites someone, there are probably regulations or prescribed practices of how to follow up with the situation. What's the proper procedure on an Amtrak train? Do you follow the protocol of the local municipality? Does Amtrak have a protocol?

I'm thinking that legally, Amtrak can get the information from the dog owner, but by the time they do it would be too late. Hence the victim has to go through the regimen.

jb
 

Triley

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I seriously hope they got put off, as they're suppose to be. (Tom, exactly what happens when someone on the Auto Train is put off, if it's a party of one? They have to find their own way to the terminal they were headed to to collect their car or arrange for private transport to get the vehicle to them?)

This type of stuff is getting ridiculous. I'm sure it claimed to be a "service animal", because you are right, it is either 7 or 8 hours they're allowed to be onboard as a pet. I don't recall exactly how long.
 
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John Bobinyec

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An ad-libbed protocol might be to have the owner provide the information on the spot or be removed from the train at the next station (scheduled or not).

Just a thought.

jb
 
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Bob Dylan

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Sorry to hear that Tom! Perhaps the Union should get in on this, it surely is a factor in working conditions which are negotiatable!

Hope the OBS is OK, Rabis shots are painful and actually dangerous, shouldn't that dog have been impounded and the irresponsible owner made to pay all expenses and perhaps even a fine?

Service animals are wonderful, so are pets, but pets don't belong on Long Distance Trains!

PETA can ***** and moan but they're not the ones getting bit and having to clean up pet "mess"!
 
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Devil's Advocate

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PETA can ***** and moan but they're not the ones getting bit and having to clean up pet "mess"!
What on earth does this have to do with PETA? Their own recommendations include considering if the pet should be left at home while you travel. If anything they'd want you to leave the pet at home if it's at risk of causing major problems and potentially being harmed or put down as a result. If you're going to complain about pets being allowed on Amtrak why not focus your anger on the actual party that created and enforced this rule? PETA has no power over Amtrak, but the US Congress does, and they're the ones directly responsible for this.

Animals temperaments and travel logistics must be considered before packing up and heading out on a trip. In some cases, it may be better to leave your animal friends at home in the care of a trusted sitter, such as a relative, close friend, coworker, or neighbor. Its best to stick with adults, since even well-intentioned youngsters can forget to come by when they are supposed to.
Source: http://www.peta.org/issues/companion-animal-issues/companion-animals-factsheets/traveling-companion-animals-2/
 
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Bob Dylan

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PETA has Lobbyists in Washington and State Capitals Chris, they pushed Congress to OK pets on Amtrak.

It's not so much the Organization itself, but some of the Zealots that do illegal and stupid things like throwing Red Paint on people wearing fur and leather,picketing animal shelters and sending e-mails and letters to elected officials asking for laws that allow people to take pets everywhere including Amtrak and on Public transit!

Well have to disagree on this one, but that's what's so cool about this Forum, you can disagree and still be civil and/or friends unlike today's Politics!
 

Devil's Advocate

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PETA has Lobbyists in Washington and State Capitals Chris, they pushed Congress to OK pets on Amtrak. It's not so much the Organization itself, but some of the Zealots that do illegal and stupid things like throwing Red Paint on people wearing fur and leather,picketing animal shelters and sending e-mails and letters to elected officials asking for laws that allow people to take pets everywhere including Amtrak and on Public transit! Well have to disagree on this one, but that's what's so cool about this Forum, you can disagree and still be civil and/or friends unlike today's Politics!
All I could find so far was a press release from PETA congratulating Amtrak on their original pet trial project. I couldn't find anything about PETA pushing the US Congress to force Amtrak to accept pets. That doesn't mean it didn't happen but the idea that a GOP controlled congress would care about anything PETA wants is a pretty big pill to swallow on faith alone. PETA wants humane treatment of birthing/raising/sheltering/slaughtering animals for food and our Congress hasn't done squat about any of that. In fact they've outright banned most forms of direct evidence gathering and investigative reporting on anything that involves the meat industry.
 
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FormerOBS

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As I said at the outset, I don't know all the details here.

Normally, a person who is put off the Auto Train is put off in the custody of the local constabulary. It's usually because of intoxication and/or some form of disorderly conduct. The passenger's vehicle cannot be unloaded enroute, so it continues to the destination terminal. The passenger is responsible for getting himself reunited with his vehicle in whatever way works for him.

In this case, I believe the passenger continued to the destination, and I think the police became involved at that point. Just how those police handled it, or how the jurisdiction issue was addressed, is unknown to me.

Tom
 

neroden

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Uncontrolled fake service dogs are certainly a problem. Hopefully the presence of an official pet policy will encourage more of a crackdown on the fakers.
 

FormerOBS

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My opinion: A policy is just meaningless words on paper if it isn't accompanied by a vigorous enforcement effort and significant legal and financial consequences for violators.

Tom
 
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HenryK

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The PETA page is impressive and full of good advice for dog people. It, however, does not deal specifically with railroad travel . . . yet. (I am sure it will soon.)

My hearing service dog Trooper and I have just returned from a round trip to Arizona on the Southwest Chief. The westbound conductors were concerned enough about his capacity that they held the train a few minutes at La Plata so Troop could pee. Eastbound, they seemed indifferent, but not at all hostile.

If you are interested in details, there are some more at http://www.henrykisor.blogspot.com.
 
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OlympianHiawatha

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Around here, dogs that threaten you on your property get shot by the property owner-no questions asked-no problems. This only confirms it is way past time to redefine and strictly tighten what is considered a service dog.
 

Devil's Advocate

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Around here, dogs that threaten you on your property get shot by the property owner-no questions asked-no problems. This only confirms it is way past time to redefine and strictly tighten what is considered a service dog.
What exactly constitutes "threatened?" If someone has an irrational fear of dogs does that mean they can shoot any dog they please? What if they lure the dog onto their property with food? What if a dog threatens you away from your property? Does the dog get to bite you if you're on his owner's property? If you meet on neutral territory do you both take up six shooters at noon?
 

SarahZ

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Around here, dogs that threaten you on your property get shot by the property owner-no questions asked-no problems. This only confirms it is way past time to redefine and strictly tighten what is considered a service dog.
What exactly constitutes "threatened?" If someone has an irrational fear of dogs does that mean they can shoot any dog they please? What if they lure the dog onto their property with food? What if a dog threatens you away from your property? Does the dog get to bite you if you're on his owner's property? If you meet on neutral territory do you both take up six shooters at noon?
FAST GUN 8.png
 

AmtrakBlue

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Around here, dogs that threaten you on your property get shot by the property owner-no questions asked-no problems. This only confirms it is way past time to redefine and strictly tighten what is considered a service dog.
What exactly constitutes "threatened?" If someone has an irrational fear of dogs does that mean they can shoot any dog they please? What if they lure the dog onto their property with food? What if a dog threatens you away from your property? Does the dog get to bite you if you're on his owner's property? If you meet on neutral territory do you both take up six shooters at noon?
FAST GUN 8.png
:D

He was a favorite of mine and I wore a costume of him for Halloween one year. And, yes, I did play with toy guns, though I doubt they were part of that particular Halloween costume.
 

PVD

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It would be extraordinarily rare for a real service doge to have been involved. Pets are not carried on the Auto Train, that enhances the likelihood of a fake service dog having been involved. Sounds like a great civil case. First discovery motion would be for documentation of the dogs training. Include the fake certifying agency in the lawsuit, they probably have insurance.
 

niemi24s

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What exactly constitutes "threatened?" If someone has an irrational fear of dogs does that mean they can shoot any dog they please? What if they lure the dog onto their property with food? What if a dog threatens you away from your property? Does the dog get to bite you if you're on his owner's property? If you meet on neutral territory do you both take up six shooters at noon?
In spite of your usual attempts at trolling for a controversy, it's really all quite simple. A person out on foot can/will/should/ought to protect him/herself when threatened by any animal with whatever means are available, whether that means be climbing a tree, a well-placed kick or shots from a firearm. That notion may be difficult for a city-slicker to comprehend but it's just common sense for those living in rural areas.
 

StriderGDM

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It would be extraordinarily rare for a real service doge to have been involved. Pets are not carried on the Auto Train, that enhances the likelihood of a fake service dog having been involved. Sounds like a great civil case. First discovery motion would be for documentation of the dogs training. Include the fake certifying agency in the lawsuit, they probably have insurance.
Since there's no official certifying agencies for service animal (there's technically no such thing as a certified service animal), that shouldn't be an issue.

However, the owner of the service animal can still be responsible for its behavior and very well could themselves in deep, hot water.
 

PVD

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There are companies that provide documentation and vests and tags for dogs for a fee with no training. Certifying that it is a service dog (not certification in a classic legal sense). Real service dogs are provided by groups or agencies that provide extensive training with rigorous standards. It is true that there are no "certifying agencies", but there are standards that define what a service dog is under the law, and someone who claims that their dog is a service dog, when it has no training, or someone who sells kits to help you perpetrate that frau, could easily end up on the wrong end of a lawsuit in a case like this. Emotional support dogs are not service dogs under the ADA, although some jurisdictions have allowances for them, that is not the case with Amtrak.
 

PVD

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I thought it was "Huckleberry Hound", voiced by the great Daws Butler - Quick Draw was a horse, but was also voiced by Daws Butler.
 

Thirdrail7

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Was that Quickdraw McGraw?
Quickdraw McGraw is a horse. That was Huckleberry Hound.

That being said, the premise of this thread seems to be informative in nature since even the OP doesn't know the actual details. I take it as "this is what happens when you can't produce proper papers," as opposed to the dog actually being "uncontrolled."

There are too many missing parts of this story to draw an accurate assessment as to how the dog got on the train, let alone he it got close enough to bite someone.
 

PVD

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That is 100% reasonable. I for one will wait for more information and refrain from more speculation. I should have avoided that in the first place.
 
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