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If I could get away with it, I would be okay with a horse & buggy. I don't think hubby would approve, though. I don't think the city would like it either!

We definitely need to make more money as a country if we are going to continue to spend like we have an unlimited supply.

I am sure most on this board operate under some kind of budget-yet as a country we seem to not understand that when there is no more money, you must stop spending, or adjust what you are spending it on.

I too agree about not cutting music programs-I think they are a valuable asset for children. I certainly enjoyed my classes and still use what I learned every week.

We do however, also need to figure out why our students are doing so poorly. I don't think it has to do with funding. I think it has to do with the teachers & to some degree the parents. I had some great & not so great teachers. So did our kids & grandkids. We always encouraged the kids to do their very best & we helped as much as we could-and still do.
 
If I could get away with it, I would be okay with a horse & buggy. I don't think hubby would approve, though. I don't think the city would like it either!We definitely need to make more money as a country if we are going to continue to spend like we have an unlimited supply.

I am sure most on this board operate under some kind of budget-yet as a country we seem to not understand that when there is no more money, you must stop spending, or adjust what you are spending it on.

I too agree about not cutting music programs-I think they are a valuable asset for children. I certainly enjoyed my classes and still use what I learned every week.

We do however, also need to figure out why our students are doing so poorly. I don't think it has to do with funding. I think it has to do with the teachers & to some degree the parents. I had some great & not so great teachers. So did our kids & grandkids. We always encouraged the kids to do their very best & we helped as much as we could-and still do.
Students are doing poorly because our priorities as a nation, frankly, suck.

Too many parents let TV raise their kids rather than spend the time to do so themselves. Many of them simply can't spare the time because they're busy working multiple jobs (if they are lucky enough to have jobs) at odd hours just to barely put food on the table.

Previous generations generally didn't have to deal with that. There was one member of the family that worked (generally the father), and the one job was enough to feed the family (thanks to unions, in many cases).

However, over time, companies figured out that being cheap and efficient was in their best interests, and this nation and society decided to go along with it ("free enterprise" and all that, because corporations are people too and whatnot). So, as a result, people have to do more work for less pay.

So, parents are gone just to make ends meet, so the kids are left to fend for themselves. They do not have a healthy home environment, and that has a direct impact on their academic performance. Schools dealing with budget crises and having to cut "nonessential" things like activities doesn't help the situation.

It's not just about how good the teacher is at teaching the material that determines whether or not a student will learn. Unfortunately, since very few people (particularly those in positions of decision-making ability) actually seem to understand this, the problem won't get any better.

As for "making more money as a country" (I assume you're referring to government budgets here, given the context of the last couple of messages), well, how about looking here, for starters.
 
If I could get away with it, I would be okay with a horse & buggy. I don't think hubby would approve, though. I don't think the city would like it either!We definitely need to make more money as a country if we are going to continue to spend like we have an unlimited supply.

I am sure most on this board operate under some kind of budget-yet as a country we seem to not understand that when there is no more money, you must stop spending, or adjust what you are spending it on.

I too agree about not cutting music programs-I think they are a valuable asset for children. I certainly enjoyed my classes and still use what I learned every week.

We do however, also need to figure out why our students are doing so poorly. I don't think it has to do with funding. I think it has to do with the teachers & to some degree the parents. I had some great & not so great teachers. So did our kids & grandkids. We always encouraged the kids to do their very best & we helped as much as we could-and still do.
Students are doing poorly because our priorities as a nation, frankly, suck.

Too many parents let TV raise their kids rather than spend the time to do so themselves. Many of them simply can't spare the time because they're busy working multiple jobs (if they are lucky enough to have jobs) at odd hours just to barely put food on the table.

Previous generations generally didn't have to deal with that. There was one member of the family that worked (generally the father), and the one job was enough to feed the family (thanks to unions, in many cases).

However, over time, companies figured out that being cheap and efficient was in their best interests, and this nation and society decided to go along with it ("free enterprise" and all that, because corporations are people too and whatnot). So, as a result, people have to do more work for less pay.

So, parents are gone just to make ends meet, so the kids are left to fend for themselves. They do not have a healthy home environment, and that has a direct impact on their academic performance. Schools dealing with budget crises and having to cut "nonessential" things like activities doesn't help the situation.

It's not just about how good the teacher is at teaching the material that determines whether or not a student will learn. Unfortunately, since very few people (particularly those in positions of decision-making ability) actually seem to understand this, the problem won't get any better.

As for "making more money as a country" (I assume you're referring to government budgets here, given the context of the last couple of messages), well, how about looking here, for starters.
We were not able to survive with one income. We both had to work. So did my parents. My mom finally retired at 75, & is alone.

I do not mean raising the taxes we all pay. Even if your income is really low & you don't pay income tax, they still tax you on food, gas, etc. I meant as a country, we do not export much anymore, except jobs. We import so much, including food. We need to be more self sufficient, providing for our own needs & exporting goods to other countries.

There has been talk of a VAT tax, which would be very bad. That means goods & services would be taxed many times over before you buy it. There has been talk of a Fair Tax, which I don't know much about. They have also been talking about a Flat tax, which would be the same percentage for everyone. If they did that tax, we would have plenty of funds & not need an income tax anymore.
 
Note that I didn't say I wasn't willing to pay for the raise in the form of higher ticket prices.

I just wanted to make sure you, my fellow rail rider, were.

Where does the money for these raises would come from? The Amtrak money tree?

Maybe a more interesting question for rail fans is whether they'd rather give raises to Amtrak employees or use the money to buy a new car or two. Heck, maybe they could use the money to upgrade a track, thus improving travel time, thus improving Amtrak's value in the eyes of a few voters, and thereby getting it more government funding in the future.
 
They have also been talking about a Flat tax, which would be the same percentage for everyone. If they did that tax, we would have plenty of funds & not need an income tax anymore.
That all depends on what the rate was set at. It would also be horribly regressive. I highly recommend looking into the fair tax, that one has some real promise.

Note that I didn't say I wasn't willing to pay for the raise in the form of higher ticket prices.
I just wanted to make sure you, my fellow rail rider, were.
I'm sure, that's all your ever concerned about. Whatsoever would we do without your noble concern for my wallet?
 
We do however, also need to figure out why our students are doing so poorly. I don't think it has to do with funding. I think it has to do with the teachers & to some degree the parents. I had some great & not so great teachers. So did our kids & grandkids. We always encouraged the kids to do their very best & we helped as much as we could-and still do.
The problem with our education rests nowhere else but the very core of our education system. I went to school. I did... ok. I went to a decent college on a 1580 (800 math, 780 verbal) SAT score and once again did... ok. I didn't do well. I struggled through it because the sheer awfulness of most of my teachers and professors made listening to them terminally boring. Have you, Sunchaser, ever picked up the massive paper frauds perpetuated on the tax payers and college students of our great nation, referred to euphemistically as a "textbook."

These pieces of fecal matter in paper form have to be the most insulting, atrocious, and disgusting thing I have ever seen. I bought many of my high school books from my school at the end of the year. Why? Because I wanted the satisfaction of taking these things, making a bonfire, and showing them my opinion.

They are not so much instruments of learning as instruments for the writers to show how much more they know than the student reading them. They take the simplest of concepts and make them more complex then they really are. It is up to the teacher to take this garbage and feed it into the head of a student in such a way that he sifts out the trash and retrieves the valuable information buried in deep in it.

The intelligent students quickly become angry and disheartened by the simple fact that teachers fall into two main categories: those who are not capable of doing the above (it requires considerably more competence than the job should require!), and those who don't care enough to bother. The teachers that do care and have the competence are very rare and also usually fall afoul of the diplomatic politics that tend to infect school districts.

On top of that, the students that have the mental capability to understand the information presented to them in this convoluted form have to sit around and twiddle their thumbs while the teacher attempts to cram the other 95% of the students with the information they need to do well on "standardized tests". Because they have already assimilated the information and sit longing for the teacher to expound on it with something, anything.

Now, as I said, teachers exist who care and have the competence to help students. The problem is that by the time most students have reached a teacher who cares, the student has become completely turned off to school. Not because they are stupid. Not because they don't want to learn. Because they can't bring themselves to place importance on what is so obviously a gigantic farce.

As I said, I went to school, went to college, got my degrees. And I will tell you that almost everything I know is self taught. Because in order to learn, I had to ignore school. I became an educated person in spite of the school system I was in, not because of it.

No student left behind? The moment I heard that, I felt a dropping feeling in the pit of my stomach. Because at that moment, I realized that the American school system is doomed. A child must be individually evaluated. Each person has their own talents. They need to be taught to the full benefit of their particular strengths.

Dr. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, through his character, Sherlock Holmes, postulated that the head is like a closet, and if overcrowded it becomes cluttered. A more misunderstood principle is rare. Its not that the mind has limited capacity. Few people will ever reach even a hundredth of their minds capacity for thought, or knowledge. But, few people are ever capable of organizing what they know in such a way that heavy utilization of that mind can be done.

Someone whose strength is highly in one area is ruined when you force them to learn in great detail things that they will never be particularly good at. Oh, yes, every person needs to know the basics of history, simple arithmetic, how to read, write, and form language. It is for the historians to learn detailed history, the mathematicians to learn calculus, the writers to learn the greatest depths of language, poetry, and prose.

A carpenter, a master craftsman, does not need to know the details of Socrates or quantum physics. He doesn't need to know this information. Carrying it around is a burden he is better off without.

Of course, there are people who are very talented, who have exceptionally orderly minds. We call them gifted. They are the ones who would WANT to learn all of this extra information. And they can.

To use our students, our children, to the best of their ability, they need to be prompted to perform to the fullest extent in the area in which they excel. Attempting to turn every person into a Renaissance man is our greatest failure in logic. It leaves them lost and confused. They have to know information they don't understand, never will understand. It is not their calling to understand these things.

My gift has always been a very orderly mind. I can never dream of building a beautiful desk, of painting a beautiful picture, of using great gobs of physical strength. I can't well play sports, or socialize with people, or dance. I remain in my mind.

If we continue to believe that one basic curriculum is the guiding point for all of our students, our schools will continue to fail. Task them with the impossible, expect bad results.
 
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We do however, also need to figure out why our students are doing so poorly. I don't think it has to do with funding. I think it has to do with the teachers & to some degree the parents. I had some great & not so great teachers. So did our kids & grandkids. We always encouraged the kids to do their very best & we helped as much as we could-and still do.
The problem with our education rests nowhere else but the very core of our education system. I went to school. I did... ok. I went to a decent college on a 1580 (800 math, 780 verbal) SAT score and once again did... ok. I didn't do well. I struggled through it because the sheer awfulness of most of my teachers and professors made listening to them terminally boring. Have you, Sunchaser, ever picked up the massive paper frauds perpetuated on the tax payers and college students of our great nation, referred to euphemistically as a "textbook."

These pieces of fecal matter in paper form have to be the most insulting, atrocious, and disgusting thing I have ever seen. I bought many of my high school books from my school at the end of the year. Why? Because I wanted the satisfaction of taking these things, making a bonfire, and showing them my opinion.

They are not so much instruments of learning as instruments for the writers to show how much more they know than the student reading them. They take the simplest of concepts and make them more complex then they really are. It is up to the teacher to take this garbage and feed it into the head of a student in such a way that he sifts out the trash and retrieves the valuable information buried in deep in it.

The intelligent students quickly become angry and disheartened by the simple fact that teachers fall into two main categories: those who are not capable of doing the above (it requires considerably more competence than the job should require!), and those who don't care enough to bother. The teachers that do care and have the competence are very rare and also usually fall afoul of the diplomatic politics that tend to infect school districts.

On top of that, the students that have the mental capability to understand the information presented to them in this convoluted form have to sit around and twiddle their thumbs while the teacher attempts to cram the other 95% of the students with the information they need to do well on "standardized tests". Because they have already assimilated the information and sit longing for the teacher to expound on it with something, anything.

Now, as I said, teachers exist who care and have the competence to help students. The problem is that by the time most students have reached a teacher who cares, the student has become completely turned off to school. Not because they are stupid. Not because they don't want to learn. Because they can't bring themselves to place importance on what is so obviously a gigantic farce.

As I said, I went to school, went to college, got my degrees. And I will tell you that almost everything I know is self taught. Because in order to learn, I had to ignore school. I became an educated person in spite of the school system I was in, not because of it.

No student left behind? The moment I heard that, I felt a dropping feeling in the pit of my stomach. Because at that moment, I realized that the American school system is doomed. A child must be individually evaluated. Each person has their own talents. They need to be taught to the full benefit of their particular strengths.

Dr. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, through his character, Sherlock Holmes, postulated that the head is like a closet, and if overcrowded it becomes cluttered. A more misunderstood principle is rare. Its not that the mind has limited capacity. Few people will ever reach even a hundredth of their minds capacity for thought, or knowledge. But, few people are ever capable of organizing what they know in such a way that heavy utilization of that mind can be done.

Someone whose strength is highly in one area is ruined when you force them to learn in great detail things that they will never be particularly good at. Oh, yes, every person needs to know the basics of history, simple arithmetic, how to read, write, and form language. It is for the historians to learn detailed history, the mathematicians to learn calculus, the writers to learn the greatest depths of language, poetry, and prose.

A carpenter, a master craftsman, does not need to know the details of Socrates or quantum physics. He doesn't need to know this information. Carrying it around is a burden he is better off without.

Of course, there are people who are very talented, who have exceptionally orderly minds. We call them gifted. They are the ones who would WANT to learn all of this extra information. And they can.

To use our students, our children, to the best of their ability, they need to be prompted to perform to the fullest extent in the area in which they excel. Attempting to turn every person into a Renaissance man is our greatest failure in logic. It leaves them lost and confused. They have to know information they don't understand, never will understand. It is not their calling to understand these things.

My gift has always been a very orderly mind. I can never dream of building a beautiful desk, of painting a beautiful picture, of using great gobs of physical strength. I can't well play sports, or socialize with people, or dance. I remain in my mind.

If we continue to believe that one basic curriculum is the guiding point for all of our students, our schools will continue to fail. Task them with the impossible, expect bad results.
Well said, GML. I have looked at the poor excuse for textbooks we are using, & I am appalled at the way they want to change them & make them worse.

One example is they want to remove all American history before President Polk.

They claim it isn't relevant anymore.

I too, had bad & good teachers, as did my children, & even now, my grandchildren.

I do think if a teacher is not teaching, they should be canned, period. Oh, wait, we can't do that, because they're in a union!

We have had to go & speak with teachers several times about the methods they were using were so wrong & illegal to get them back on track.

The public school system now is designed for the average student- not the gifted, or the one having trouble.

If you are not average you are singled out-for better or worse-because your teacher does not know how to teach you.

Couple that with the ability of teachers to pass children that have not completed the basics for that grade, shuffling the 'problem' off to someone else.

If the parents do not actively monitor & assist in the education of their children, you certainly cannot complain why your child cannot read, write, get or hold a decent job.
 
Well said, GML. I have looked at the poor excuse for textbooks we are using, & I am appalled at the way they want to change them & make them worse. One example is they want to remove all American history before President Polk.

They claim it isn't relevant anymore.

I too, had bad & good teachers, as did my children, & even now, my grandchildren.

I do think if a teacher is not teaching, they should be canned, period. Oh, wait, we can't do that, because they're in a union!

We have had to go & speak with teachers several times about the methods they were using were so wrong & illegal to get them back on track.

The public school system now is designed for the average student- not the gifted, or the one having trouble.

If you are not average you are singled out-for better or worse-because your teacher does not know how to teach you.

Couple that with the ability of teachers to pass children that have not completed the basics for that grade, shuffling the 'problem' off to someone else.

If the parents do not actively monitor & assist in the education of their children, you certainly cannot complain why your child cannot read, write, get or hold a decent job.
I was for part of my career a high-school English teacher, and I still keep an eye on the profession through the experiences of my children and grandchildren.

While I have seen a few teachers who for various reasons were unfit for teaching (haven't we all seen people like that, no matter their jobs?), the majority have been dedicated, hardworking folk facing a range of situations: from overcrowded classrooms to the necessity for acting as administrators, to the requirements of teaching to a particular set of standards ("No Child Left Behind," anyone?), to the insistence by some parents that their children must not be allowed to fail or be given less-than-stellar grades. And they do their jobs -- unless they burn out and turn to less emotionally exhausting, better-paying careers -- on salaries considerably less rewarding than those of other professionals required to have the same amounts of education.
 
Well said, GML. I have looked at the poor excuse for textbooks we are using, & I am appalled at the way they want to change them & make them worse. One example is they want to remove all American history before President Polk.

They claim it isn't relevant anymore.

I too, had bad & good teachers, as did my children, & even now, my grandchildren.

I do think if a teacher is not teaching, they should be canned, period. Oh, wait, we can't do that, because they're in a union!

We have had to go & speak with teachers several times about the methods they were using were so wrong & illegal to get them back on track.

The public school system now is designed for the average student- not the gifted, or the one having trouble.

If you are not average you are singled out-for better or worse-because your teacher does not know how to teach you.

Couple that with the ability of teachers to pass children that have not completed the basics for that grade, shuffling the 'problem' off to someone else.

If the parents do not actively monitor & assist in the education of their children, you certainly cannot complain why your child cannot read, write, get or hold a decent job.
I was for part of my career a high-school English teacher, and I still keep an eye on the profession through the experiences of my children and grandchildren.

While I have seen a few teachers who for various reasons were unfit for teaching (haven't we all seen people like that, no matter their jobs?), the majority have been dedicated, hardworking folk facing a range of situations: from overcrowded classrooms to the necessity for acting as administrators, to the requirements of teaching to a particular set of standards ("No Child Left Behind," anyone?), to the insistence by some parents that their children must not be allowed to fail or be given less-than-stellar grades. And they do their jobs -- unless they burn out and turn to less emotionally exhausting, better-paying careers -- on salaries considerably less rewarding than those of other professionals required to have the same amounts of education.
Sue, I know that most teachers are great & love their jobs. I know there are some that should not be teaching as well. I agree, that it definitely a tough, demanding job, but even with that, the ones that love the kids & what they do seem to thrive in that environment. I agree that just like any job, there are those that should not have that job. At the beginning of each school year, we would go introduce ourselves to the teachers, & let them know we could be there at a moments notice if needed. Most appreciated this thought-some were offended!

I figure if I am going allow anyone to teach my children, they should be doing the best they can, & I supported them as much I could. Our kids were expected to do their best as well.

Children must meet the requirements to pass. Should we teach our children that it's okay if you don't do the job right, we will reward you anyway?
 
Sue, I know that most teachers are great & love their jobs. I know there are some that should not be teaching as well. I agree, that it definitely a tough, demanding job, but even with that, the ones that love the kids & what they do seem to thrive in that environment. I agree that just like any job, there are those that should not have that job. At the beginning of each school year, we would go introduce ourselves to the teachers, & let them know we could be there at a moments notice if needed. Most appreciated this thought-some were offended!I figure if I am going allow anyone to teach my children, they should be doing the best they can, & I supported them as much I could. Our kids were expected to do their best as well.

Children must meet the requirements to pass. Should we teach our children that it's okay if you don't do the job right, we will reward you anyway?
That's good to know. I was (over?)reacting to what I perceived as a generalization. I agree that teachers and parents must work together if children are to be educated.
 
Sue, I know that most teachers are great & love their jobs. I know there are some that should not be teaching as well. I agree, that it definitely a tough, demanding job, but even with that, the ones that love the kids & what they do seem to thrive in that environment. I agree that just like any job, there are those that should not have that job. At the beginning of each school year, we would go introduce ourselves to the teachers, & let them know we could be there at a moments notice if needed. Most appreciated this thought-some were offended!I figure if I am going allow anyone to teach my children, they should be doing the best they can, & I supported them as much I could. Our kids were expected to do their best as well.

Children must meet the requirements to pass. Should we teach our children that it's okay if you don't do the job right, we will reward you anyway?
That's good to know. I was (over?)reacting to what I perceived as a generalization. I agree that teachers and parents must work together if children are to be educated.
I'm sorry if it sounded that way. That was not my intent. Most of the best encouragement & real interest in my learning was from some of my teachers. I still hold them in respect & admiration, even though I'm sure most of them have passed away.

My kids are the same way, they still remember their best teachers with fondness & respect.

I also had more than one teacher that had no business teaching anyone, & have the scars to prove it.
 
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