Vermonter Bustitution for the Summer

[transit54]

Due to track upgrades associated with the HSR money VT received, the Vermonter will not travel north of Springfield, MA from June 18th until early September. Alternate bus transportation will be provided. Service and schedules south of Springfield are unaffected. Amtrak finally loaded the buses into their system today.

 

[AlanB]

I know that it's necessary and good for the future, but boy is that going to hurt ridership this summer!

 

[Gratt]

I know that it's necessary and good for the future, but boy is that going to hurt ridership this summer!

I second that motion, but I have a few questions.

1. What part of the line is under construction?

2. Why cant they do a re-route I see the line branches off at Bellows Falls, you will still need a bus for a lot of stops but at least the train will keep running.

3. Can they run it part of the way and then switch to a bus?

4. Could they extend the Ethan Allen to Burlington?

 

[cirdan]

I know that it's necessary and good for the future, but boy is that going to hurt ridership this summer!

I second that motion, but I have a few questions.

1. What part of the line is under construction?

2. Why cant they do a re-route I see the line branches off at Bellows Falls, you will still need a bus for a lot of stops but at least the train will keep running.

3. Can they run it part of the way and then switch to a bus?

4. Could they extend the Ethan Allen to Burlington?

I guess you can't just run a passenger train anywhere. First of all you have to negotiate with the host railroad, and essentially you're at their mercy. And then maybe they demand you invest in capacity or upgrade tracks to make them suitable for passenger trains.

If the operation is going to be permanent the pain may be worth it but if its just a couple of months it's a waste of energy.

All that costs time and money and in some situations it may just be cheaper to bustitute.

Also, if they run the train just part of the way, they will still have the equipment tied up on the service as well as the staff, so they're basically paying for the train and the bus when they could be achieving much the same with only a bus.

 

[bretton88]

Well, being that the tracks are owned by the state of Vermont (its only operated by Vermont Railways), there was probably no non-cooperation. My guess is the contract was cheaper and shorter if they where given larger time windows to work (mobilization is a huge cost in contracts). Since there would be severe speed restrictions with track work anyways, I wonder if the ridership hit isn't as bad as we think it will be.

 

[transit54]

I know that it's necessary and good for the future, but boy is that going to hurt ridership this summer!

I second that motion, but I have a few questions.

1. What part of the line is under construction?

2. Why cant they do a re-route I see the line branches off at Bellows Falls, you will still need a bus for a lot of stops but at least the train will keep running.

3. Can they run it part of the way and then switch to a bus?

4. Could they extend the Ethan Allen to Burlington?

To answer your questions:

1. What part of the line is under construction?

The New England Central Railroad (NECR) is under construction from St Albans, VT to Vernon, VT (MA border). At this point continuously welded rail (CWR) has been laid past Montpelier, I believe. They are generally working south from St Albans, although some small stretches (mostly south of White River Junction) already have CWR. They also have to do tie replacement and track resurfacing work.

2. Why cant they do a re-route I see the line branches off at Bellows Falls, you will still need a bus for a lot of stops but at least the train will keep running.

Partly because the track work is being done all the way down to the border, so a complete closure would eventually be necessary. From Bellows Falls, the train would have to travel to Rutland, which would take it via a completely different route. The track is also in very poor condition and the train could operate no faster than 30 MPH, if that in many sections. I took an excursion train on that route several years ago. There is no route that would parallel the NECR. A map of VT rail lines can be seen here: http://railroads.vermont.gov/. Since the state owns the track under almost all the rail lines shown (except the NECR and a few railroads that barely enter the state), cooperation isn't a problem, the routing is.

3. Can they run it part of the way and then switch to a bus?

Theoretically they could run it to Amherst and then turn it around, or run it to Brattleboro for a while before they'd have to terminate doing that. Neither makes sense - Amherst doesn't benefit VT any, and they're paying for the train, plus it would have to deadhead each way, as there's no room to park it or clean it there. Brattleboro doesn't make much sense either, since they bus is MUCH faster between Springfield and Brattleboro since the Palmer, MA move eats up a lot of time. And again, it would eventually have to be discontinued as they worked on the track in that area. A major reason they are doing this is to get the work done as soon as possible - if they continued running the train, they'd run into heat restrictions for welding the track during many of the summer months, which would cut productivity and increase the time and the cost of the project. They want the most flexibility possible.

4. Could they extend the Ethan Allen to Burlington?

Sure. Last estimate I saw on that would be around $50-$60m to upgrade the line to support 59 MPH operation. VT continues to apply for this money federally and the "Western Corridor" (as it's known here) is now the highest priority rail project in the state. The State just can't come up with that kind of money on it's own, at least in the short term. In any event, the track work for that would take a year or two, so that wouldn't help the situation with the VTer. But that will eventually happen.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

From the service alert posted on the Amtrak website for Trains 54 & 56:

Northbound Trains 54 and 56On the dates shown below, beginning June 17 through September 17, Trains 54 and 56, which normally operate from Washington to St. Albans, will terminate at Springfield. Motorcoach service will be provided between Springfield, St. Albans and all intermediate stations except Claremont, NH, and Windsor, VT.

Trains 54 and 56 Service Change Dates

Friday, June 17 through Monday, June 27, 2011 Wednesday, July 6 through Wednesday, July 20, 2011 Wednesday, July 27 through Wednesday, August 20, 2011 Wednesday, August 17 through Wednesday, August 31, 2011 Wednesday, September 7 through Saturday, September 17, 2011

Notice where it says Wed. July 27 through Wed. Aug. 20; Wed. Aug 17 through Wed. Aug. 31.

Umm, First, Aug. 20 is after Aug. 17, Second, Aug. 20 is not a Wednesday. Somehow I'm thinking they meant Wed. July 27 through Wed. Aug. 10; Wed. Aug 17 through Wed. Aug 31...

That would make a whole lot more sense! :lol: :lol:

 

[eagle628]

1. What part of the line is under construction?

The New England Central Railroad (NECR) is under construction from St Albans, VT to Vernon, VT (MA border). At this point continuously welded rail (CWR) has been laid past Montpelier, I believe. They are generally working south from St Albans, although some small stretches (mostly south of White River Junction) already have CWR. They also have to do tie replacement and track resurfacing work.

I live a bit north of White River Junction, and they've passed the tracks near my house. Bit interesting to see the track after they've installed the new rail; since they leave the old stuff lying near the new track it looks like there's a narrow guage railroad parallel to the standard gauge one.

 

[transit54]

I live a bit north of White River Junction, and they've passed the tracks near my house. Bit interesting to see the track after they've installed the new rail; since they leave the old stuff lying near the new track it looks like there's a narrow guage railroad parallel to the standard gauge one.

They'll be by to get it in a week or two. They come by with a little crane and hoist the jointed rail onto a flatcar. Have they done any ballast work or tie replacement down there?

 

[eagle628]

I live a bit north of White River Junction, and they've passed the tracks near my house. Bit interesting to see the track after they've installed the new rail; since they leave the old stuff lying near the new track it looks like there's a narrow guage railroad parallel to the standard gauge one.

They'll be by to get it in a week or two. They come by with a little crane and hoist the jointed rail onto a flatcar. Have they done any ballast work or tie replacement down there?

Don't think there's been any ballast work, but I haven't gotten a chance to look closely (mostly just glimpses of the track). I'd assume the ties were done at the same time as the rails, since you'd have to tear out the rail they just put in to replace the ties. Ballast I think they can do later, just come in with a machine to raise up the rails and clean/replace the stuff.

On a completely unrelated note, I think I saw the buses that are doing the bustitution this evening going north on I-89. Two Premier Coaches buses (which is the company Amtrak hired) at about the right time. I feel sorry for the people who are being subjected to those things; I've had the misfortune to ride in one of Premier's buses and the seats are just terrible. Little narrow things that feel like they put a layer of fabric on top of hard plastic. I swear I've sat in better seats on a regional jet.

 

[afigg]

There is a news article in the Burlington Free Press with updates on the Vermonter construction work at http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20110822/NEWS02/110821021/Vermonter-tracks-undergo-74M-upgrade

The article suggests the bustitutions could continue into October: "crews are laying about three miles of rail a day and expect to reach the Massachusetts border by the end of the construction season in October."

 

[transit54]

There is a news article in the Burlington Free Press with updates on the Vermonter construction work at http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20110822/NEWS02/110821021/Vermonter-tracks-undergo-74M-upgrade

The article suggests the bustitutions could continue into October: "crews are laying about three miles of rail a day and expect to reach the Massachusetts border by the end of the construction season in October."

According to the information I have, bussing will end on schedule in September. I double checked on that late last week. While track work will continue, they will work around the trains, like they did prior to the bussing. I'll post here if anything changes, but that's the state's plan as of last week.

Also, that article was part of a three part series. The third part is today:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20110823/NEWS02/110822032/Vermont-targets-rail-service-Montreal-within-3-years?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

 

[afigg]

Here is the link for the article on the Ethan Allen proposed extension to Burlington: http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20110821/NEWS02/110820005/To-Rutland-by-train-68-miles-many-millions-dollars

The end of the article notes the track improvements being done to the tracks to Rutland for the Ethan Allen. I've seen it reported elsewhere that the track fixes will reduce the scheduled trip time for the Ethan Allen by 18 minutes to Rutland. The application that VT submitted for the FL HSR funds for the western corridor extension from Rutland to Burlington asked for $16 million to install CWR and fix up the tracks from Fair Haven to Rutland, so the the $3.25 million being spent only covers part of what is needed for the tracks to Rutland.

As for the extension to Montreal, if the goal is a Boston to Montreal train, that indicates a 2nd train through VT to Montreal. I guess the Vermonter would stay on it's current route to WAS. A 2nd train direct to Boston via Springfield MA would also provide Boston service for Vermont. The problem appears to be will the Canadians be willing to spend some money for even a minimum upgrade of the tracks north of the Border for both the Adirondack and new Boston-Montreal service?

 

[The Davy Crockett]

The problem appears to be will the Canadians be willing to spend some money for even a minimum upgrade of the tracks north of the Border for both the Adirondack and new Boston-Montreal service?

Good question. As I recall, Amtrak claimed at the time that the Montrealer morphed into the Vermonter that the Canadians wanted to sharply raise the fees for using their tracks and facilities, and this was something that neither Amtrak or the state of Vermont were willing to pay, and/or could not afford, in the mid-nineties.

 

[George Harris]

I'd assume the ties were done at the same time as the rails, since you'd have to tear out the rail they just put in to replace the ties. Ballast I think they can do later, just come in with a machine to raise up the rails and clean/replace the stuff.

No you don't. Ties are inserted from the side and slid under the rails. If the tie condition is poor, bad ties should be replaced before installing the rail. Even then, they are iserted from the side. Yes, ballast is usually added added after tie replacement, usually immediately after. Normally, unless it is really bad the old ballast is not taken out. The track is simply raised and the new ballast tamped around the ties.

 

[Donctor]

There is a news article in the Burlington Free Press with updates on the Vermonter construction work at http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20110822/NEWS02/110821021/Vermonter-tracks-undergo-74M-upgrade

The article suggests the bustitutions could continue into October: "crews are laying about three miles of rail a day and expect to reach the Massachusetts border by the end of the construction season in October."

According to the information I have, bussing will end on schedule in September. I double checked on that late last week. While track work will continue, they will work around the trains, like they did prior to the bussing. I'll post here if anything changes, but that's the state's plan as of last week.

Also, that article was part of a three part series. The third part is today:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20110823/NEWS02/110822032/Vermont-targets-rail-service-Montreal-within-3-years?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

To be fair, though, that's the Free Press. We used to edit a copy every morning.

Favorite story: In the "What's News" section, "17-year-old boy charged with shooting cow"

One morning the New York Times had a headline about a 90-year-old former Sobibor death camp guard sentenced to jail. Somehow, that only made the third page of the Free Press, who chose as their headline some piece about an 8-year-old who started a campaign to call restaurants out for assuming he wants a straw in his chocolate milk or Coke. He apparently has fans in Sri Lanka.

Sadly, the most well-written paper in Vermont belongs to Rutland.

 

[transit54]

To be fair, though, that's the Free Press. We used to edit a copy every morning.

Favorite story: In the "What's News" section, "17-year-old boy charged with shooting cow"

One morning the New York Times had a headline about a 90-year-old former Sobibor death camp guard sentenced to jail. Somehow, that only made the third page of the Free Press, who chose as their headline some piece about an 8-year-old who started a campaign to call restaurants out for assuming he wants a straw in his chocolate milk or Coke. He apparently has fans in Sri Lanka.

Sadly, the most well-written paper in Vermont belongs to Rutland.

You'll have no argument from me on the quality of the Free Press. Years ago it was a good paper but Gannett has just destroyed it. The Rutland Herald is indeed far superior.

I should have clarified...my information on the bussing is from a well-placed individual who has involvement in the project, not from the BFP.