VIA Announces Service Changes

[Guest]

Canada will not end up "like Mexico, with no passenger trains whatsoever." The Windsor-Toronto-(Ottawa)-Montreal-Quebec corridor will survive, as will the various commuter lines that exist.

Predicting that only the corridor services will survive is too pessimistic. Significantly no remote services were cut, a point that was made in the media release. Via also stated that the Canadian's traffic is growing during the peak season, but falling during the off season. Highly seasonal traffic patterns are nothing new on Canadian transcontinental trains; that was the case 50 years ago when I started riding. The difference is that then the trains were the mode of choice for a majority of travellers. Today with hourly flights from Toronto to Vancovuer that is no longer the case, hence the tour train personna. Still the Canadian fulfills a remote service mandate in Northern Ontario, even though it is not classified as such by Via.

The cutback to the Ocean is more worrisome, but the declining traffic pattern is clear, the result of improved road and air services in what a low population, economically challenged region.

As far as trimming the corridor services are concrned, the cuts will be to low usage evening or weekend services, or to trains which duplicate commuter services available on Go Transit. Some connections will be lost, but in the overall scheme of things the reductions were quite minor, notwithstanding what the railfan community has been saying.

Via says that it wishes to redeploy assets and is promising new services in the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto triangle once the track improvments are finished later this year. Canadian railfans are noting, correctly, that the prospect of additional frequences has been more talk than action so far. In the end getting additional trains will depend on the economy, as Via will be held to its budget, and it faces intense competition in the eastern triangle with the entry of regional carrier Porter Airlines.

 

[jis]

I think the Quebec City - Montreal - Ottawa - Toronto Corridor will do much better with more evenly distributed regular service than the episodic service that it has right now.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Looking over VIA's history, it's hard not to see numerous similarities with Amtrak.

Is there any national passenger railway in the Americas that is NOT struggling just to remain politically and financially viable over the long term?

 

[Gratt]

I would be more optimistic about these cuts if VIA was planning on using the excess equipment to run new trains. Bringing back The Atlantic on a three day a week schedule would be a good example.

At the rate things are going I predict the Canadian will be cut west of Winnipeg in the next 10 years. Service though the Rockies will be contracted to a private company which will default on the line several years latter.

I guess it is time to really start planning a trip on the Canadian.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

:unsure: Yeah, at the prices VIA charges...

Quite a bit more expensive than Amtrak, much too epxensive for the average person, much too expensive for me!

I was trying to say it seems Amtrak has weathered its cuts better than VIA has.

I agree with you. VIA has cut a lot of routes and probably struggle (a lot) more than Amtrak.

Basically, outside the corridor itself, I'm hard-pressed to see how you make a train system work in the way that Amtrak does unless you ramp up the speeds and run nonstop expresses at 90 MPH most of the way...and even then, the picture really isn't that clear. The cities just aren't large enough to provide the necessary ridership you'd need to support the

I heard than VIA trains usually run at 70 mph, which is even slower than Amtrak!

Is there any national passenger railway in the Americas that is NOT struggling just to remain politically and financially viable over the long term?

Not that I can think of. Panama might be doing all right, but the ones in S.A. are not doing too well except maybe PeruRail. I don't know much about Cuba but I don't think it's part of the Americas. It looks like Amtrak may actually be the best in both continents for passenger trains! :blink:

 

[Anderson]

Swadian,

I know that VIA may well run slower; I was strictly observing what would be needed for such a service to likely "sell" to a lot of folks and take enough of the regional travel market to get the trains reasonably full.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Cuba is indeed part of the Americas, but I am not sure of the status of their passenger network at all.

 

[Anderson]

Cuba is indeed part of the Americas, but I am not sure of the status of their passenger network at all.

My understanding is that it is decent, and reasonably well-used. However, it is also quite "well worn" and most of the equipment is older, and OTP isn't always so hot.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

I heard than VIA trains usually run at 70 mph, which is even slower than Amtrak!

 

Don't know where you heard that but there's lots of track in the corridor in the 95 > 100mph range and outside of the corridor……..many areas where speeds are in excess of 70mph:

Long stretches across the prairies where it's quite a sight to see a 25 car stainless steel Canadian rolling along in the 85mph range.

And on the Ocean/Chaleur route……in the Maritimes in CTC territory it will be in the 80 plus range and there's lots of high speed running west of Rivier-du-Loup.

Here's a high speed combined Ocean/Chaleur at Saint-Basile-le-Grand, Quebec.

 

[rrdude]

Looking over VIA's history, it's hard not to see numerous similarities with Amtrak.

Is there any national passenger railway in the Americas that is NOT struggling just to remain politically and financially viable over the long term?

Well, Mexico's national passenger rail system hasn't seen any cutback in YEARS, it has stayed status-quo for some time. That's good, right? Wait. OMG. Who killed Mexico's passenger trains? (It is a good read btw)

But truly, there haven't been any cutbacks lately!

 

[johnny.menhennet]

NS VIA FAN, that is a really good video. That train was ABSOLUTELY over 70, probably closer to 90 IYAM. Thanks for posting.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I heard than VIA trains usually run at 70 mph, which is even slower than Amtrak!

Don't know where you heard that but there's lots of track in the corridor in the 95 > 100mph range and outside of the corridor……..many areas where speeds are in excess of 70mph:

I heard the 70 mph limit on a Trainweb trip report. He said that crewmembers told him the Canadian runs at 70 mph max..

 

[bretton88]

I heard than VIA trains usually run at 70 mph, which is even slower than Amtrak!

Don't know where you heard that but there's lots of track in the corridor in the 95 > 100mph range and outside of the corridor……..many areas where speeds are in excess of 70mph:

I heard the 70 mph limit on a Trainweb trip report. He said that crewmembers told him the Canadian runs at 70 mph max..

The Canadian is limited to 70mph max outside of the corridor by CN. It can go up to 100 inside the corridor. But VIA has other trains that can go much faster (the corridor, and some of the east coast services).

 

[amtrakwolverine]

I think via limits all trains to 100MPH max or at least the P-42 is limited to that speed by VIA.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

The Canadian is limited to 70mph max outside of the corridor by CN. It can go up to 100 inside the corridor.

Sorry but that is not correct.......there are places outside the corridor where the Canadian is travelling in excess of 70 mph! I've been on it and have clocked it at 85mph across the prairies with a GPS and yes, my GPS is accurate....... and no we weren't making up time!

And where does the Canadian run "inside the corridor" as you say ? Other than a mile or so on each side of the USRC in Toronto (where speeds are restricted) and equipment moves to/from the TMC it does not run anywhere in the corridor.

 

[Nathanael]

I am most upset by the cuts to "Southwestern Ontario" rail service. These areas are the natural extension of the Toronto-Montreal Corridor, and is also the place where VIA links to the US.

And they're popular and crowded. The Stratford and London cuts appear to be arousing particular popular complaint.

http://www.southwesternontario.ca/news/via-cuts-stratford-service/

http://www.southwesternontario.ca/opinion/rail-service-cuts-hurt-passengers-city/

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/06/27/19925256.html

http://metronews.ca/news/london/279361/london-area-hit-hard-by-nationwide-via-rail-cuts/

Though I guess some of them are less popular than others.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/06/28/via-rail-cuts-means-fewer-trains-tofrom-windsor/

I realize that the "auto factory district" of Windsor/Detroit has been declining, but cutting rail service to it is NOT the answer.

The Niagara Falls cuts are particularly awful, poorly thought-out and generally a bad idea. VIA is cutting everything but the Maple Leaf!

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2012/06/27/niagara-travelers-impacted-by-via-cuts

And now, while GO Transit plans expansions to Niagara but before they are funded or implemented, is NOT the time for VIA to be cutting service to Niagara.

The Southwestern Ontario cuts are very poorly thought out and will be disastrous, both for the region and for VIA, which will earn permanent political hostility from the region for ill-thought-out cuts to busy trains on the implausible grounds of "focusing on VIA's core business" (by eliminating runs used heavily by commuters).

Sarnia will have ONE train per day. Niagara Falls will have ONE train per day, and it's the one from New York City, which means the westbound will never be on time. Windsor and London will still have multiple departures, but fewer. VIA has apparently decided that the Corridor ends in Toronto, and Southwestern Ontario can fend for itself.

Reading between the lines, it looks like VIA is trying to get GO to take over all the Southwestern Ontario services.

http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/752237--via-rail-blames-low-ridership-for-cuts-to-kitchener-service

But GO doesn't have the funding to replace VIA's services for years to come. I suppose it might get it -- but this path leads to the elimination of VIA in

its entirety. Canada's population is very Ontario-centric and very Toronto-centric, and if GO takes over all services in Southwestern Ontario, it won't be long before GO is taking over services from Toronto to Montreal and Quebec City too, and that's it for VIA.

---

It's also worth noting that there's a sharp dropoff in demand when you reduce a train from daily service to less-than-daily service; when the Ocean goes tri-weekly, it will probably lose even more money and will likely be axed entirely. It should have been left as a daily train, even if it isn't getting great ridership. VIA is making the mistakes which Amtrak *didn't* make back in the day; it's slicing off its potential sources of political support.

 

[Gord]

i know less than nothing of the canadian budget process and the needs of canada. i do recall however that the harper government is investing heavily in fancy fighter jets while cutting rail service.

And a billion dollar Windsor-Detroit bridge primarily for truckers / auto manfacturers at Windsor-Detroit.

Same old problem, chickenfeed subsidy to rail = nasty, horrible, socialist subsidy, huge subsidy to private enterprise = investment. Insult to injury, Canadian taxpayers are picking up most of the bridge tab even though it benefits both countries business.

Gord