viewliner diner 8400

[Swadian Hardcore]

It looks like Amtrak really likes the LSL considering they are giging them priority. This could mean extra Sleepers and maybe more Pennsy/CL through cars.

 

[jis]

Diners first. Everyone's just guessing when it comes to the other classes of car, since Amtrak hasn't said. However, it seems clear Amtrak wants to retire the Heritage Diners ASAP. All 25 diners will probably go into service before we see more than a token number of other cars.

(I'm not sure if they'll literally build ALL the diners before building ANY of the other types of car -- perhaps one or two of each of the other types will be built early as a "did we get this right" model -- but they've said the first car will be a diner. And the fleet plan said that many diners will be in service before any sleepers, and that the Heritage diners will be retired before any baggage cars are retired. FY12 was supposed to have 7 Heritage diner overhauls, but they've been requiring so much work that they may only get 5 done -- they really want to stop using them.)

Makes sense.

So "initial delivery of new Viewliners to the LSL" means that the LSL will get the first two diners off the line. I'm not sure whether it means anything about how the new sleepers, bag-dorms, or baggage cars will be deployed -- if you have more information it would be appreciated.

The statement made by Brian Gallagher at the ESPA meeting paraphrased was "New Viewliners will be assigned first to the Lake Shore Limited". I remember thinking, that is neat and probably a case of new cars getting assigned to the boss's home train first. You see Brian is from Albany.

I've been trying to guess what order the other cars will arrive in, and I'm guessing bag-dorm first, but I have no direct evidence of this. I'm also guessing the bag-dorms will go first to the trains which aren't the LSL and don't require full baggage cars, so that those trains can run at full speed on the NEC ASAP.

I doubt that LD trains will run at 125 on the NEC until a sufficient number of 125mph capable Viewliner Sleepers are available to equip all consists of a train. So speed I suspect, will not be an issue in deciding where the Bag-Dorms or Bags go initially. Besides the baggage volume on the Silvers is at least as bad as on the LSL. And the LSL at least has two Baggage cars. The Silvers have to make do with one. OTOH, trains like the Palmetto could actually run faster on the corridor given a Viewliner baggage car.

I suspect that the new sleepers will probably end up being treated mostly as a captive fleet for one or two trains, due to their different capacity. And in order to not confuse people.

The numbers would suggest that they could be made captive to the Silver Service, leaving a few spare. But since Silver Service is also likely to get additional Sleepers, there will probably require more than 25 Sleepers overall.

 

[dlagrua]

The LSL uses three consists so thats 9 sleepers right there. Add the silvers and the total requirement is 21. That leaves 4 to be divided among the Keystone, Crescent and Cardinal consists. If Amtrak decides to keep what they now have and just add to it, they should have plenty of sleepers to go around. The baggage dorms will help free up space and the Cardinal may finally have some sleep space available. As 2013 is just around the corner, does anyone know when Amtrak will be taking initial deliveries of Viewliner II's and in what order they will be delivered?

 

[jis]

The LSL uses three consists so thats 9 sleepers right there. Add the silvers and the total requirement is 21. That leaves 4 to be divided among the Keystone, Crescent and Cardinal consists. If Amtrak decides to keep what they now have and just add to it, they should have plenty of sleepers to go around. The baggage dorms will help free up space and the Cardinal may finally have some sleep space available. As 2013 is just around the corner, does anyone know when Amtrak will be taking initial deliveries of Viewliner II's and in what order they will be delivered?

Huh? The Silvers require 12 + 8 = 20 themselves. The LSL require 9 so total 29 for those. So you have -4 to be divided. Also it is very likely that with the new Sleepers coming in the Silvers and Lake Shore will get an additional sleeper each.

The other Sleeper carrying trains are Crescent 8, Cardinal 2. Keystones don't carry sleepers, nor will they. The Pennsylvanian/Capitol connection will require 3 or 6 depending on how many sleepers it carries each day.

The order of delivery was discussed within the three posts prior to yours. Apparently you missed those?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Soon, Amtrak's ging to have 75 Viewliners. Amtrak currently uses 39 apparently. Add 3-6for Pannsy/CL. So the LSL could get another Sleeper, Cardinal another, Crescent another, then we still have some spares left. Where are those gonna go?

 

[Mackensen]

If anyone's obsessive the 8400 is on 49 (30). New wrinkle (for me, anyway) at dinner tonight. No reservations, with dinner served 5-6 and then again 7-9 (after leaving Albany). Things seemed to run very smoothly and my steak came out much faster than usual. Good stuff, good crew.

 

[afigg]

Soon, Amtrak's ging to have 75 Viewliners. Amtrak currently uses 39 apparently. Add 3-6for Pannsy/CL. So the LSL could get another Sleeper, Cardinal another, Crescent another, then we still have some spares left. Where are those gonna go?

Keep in mind that Amtrak in general puts about 80% of the rolling stock into daily revenue service. The remainder are used for stand-by reserve or are undergoing maintenance, service, mandated inspections, or off for extended overhauls. So that means with 25 new sleepers, ~20 would be available for daily service on any given day. The current 39 out of 50 is <80%, but with only 50 units, having to keep standby spares cuts into flexibility of how many units are used daily. But with a total of 75 sleepers, baring an extended period with the 50 current Viewliners getting updated and reconfigured, 80% means that 60 units should be available for daily use. Other trains which might use a couple of sleepers would be on the #66, #67. Add them up and figure out how they might get divvied out. But this has been discussed multiple times before on here.

This is the last day of fiscal year 2012 as I write this. How many new diner cars, maybe some baggage-dorms or sleepers may in service one year from now at the end of FY2013? The coming fiscal year should be an interesting one for Amtrak, one way or the other.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I suspect that the new sleepers will probably end up being treated mostly as a captive fleet for one or two trains, due to their different capacity. And in order to not confuse people.

I had wondered how Amtrak was going to handle the Viewliner Sleepers I vs. II. I thought possibly Amtrak will stop booking one of the roomettes on the Sleeper I so that they could be easily swapped out with a Sleeper II as required.

 

[Nathanael]

How many new diner cars, maybe some baggage-dorms or sleepers may in service one year from now at the end of FY2013?

Estimate in the fleet strategy plan IIRC was a mere 13 (maybe it was 12, my memory is poor), all diners. (Barring yet more delays in production.) Most of the new cars are going to go into service in FY2014, October or later.

 

[jis]

How many new diner cars, maybe some baggage-dorms or sleepers may in service one year from now at the end of FY2013?

Estimate in the fleet strategy plan IIRC was a mere 13 (maybe it was 12, my memory is poor), all diners. (Barring yet more delays in production.) Most of the new cars are going to go into service in FY2014, October or later.

Amtrak also has to find the money to actually make their payment for delivery too. That may or may not be a problem. it all depends.....

 

[PRR 60]

How many new diner cars, maybe some baggage-dorms or sleepers may in service one year from now at the end of FY2013?

Estimate in the fleet strategy plan IIRC was a mere 13 (maybe it was 12, my memory is poor), all diners. (Barring yet more delays in production.) Most of the new cars are going to go into service in FY2014, October or later.

Amtrak also has to find the money to actually make their payment for delivery too. That may or may not be a problem. it all depends.....

Now, that's the dirty, little secret, isn't it. Maybe they need another stop work order (find some new reason) to push the delivery and payments into yet another fiscal year?

 

[afigg]

How many new diner cars, maybe some baggage-dorms or sleepers may in service one year from now at the end of FY2013?

Estimate in the fleet strategy plan IIRC was a mere 13 (maybe it was 12, my memory is poor), all diners. (Barring yet more delays in production.) Most of the new cars are going to go into service in FY2014, October or later.

The FY2013 budget plan, which is dated January 2012, has a Rolling Stock Count and Availability table which projected the number of active Viewliners/LDSLs would increase from 51 to 76 by the end of FY13 for 25 new units in service. The number of active Heritage Diners would drop from 20 to 12, so I think the first 25 units to be delivered are not all diner cars. My guess would be some baggage-dorm cars in the early deliveries as well.

With the reported delays in production, probably won't see 25 new units in active service by the end of FY13. As for making the progress payments, Amtrak is still getting $1.42 billion in operating subsidy, debt service, and capital grants from Congress and will be getting the same funding levels for the first 6 months of FY2013 with the continuing budget resolution. Amtrak should be able to cover the CAF progress payments; just have to prioritize the capital spending. Although there is the prospect of the budget sequestration, which is throwing a huge monkey wrench into planning for many government agencies and contractors, but that is OT.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

OK, so I know the original Viewliner II delivery date was in October 2012 for the very first cars. What's the current ETA for intoduction of the Viewliner II?

 

[jis]

OK, so I know the original Viewliner II delivery date was in October 2012 for the very first cars. What's the current ETA for intoduction of the Viewliner II?

Late first quarter '13 for prototype for testing. Maybe third or fourth quarter for initial in service.

 

[Ryan]

You're talking CY, not FY, right? March, not December for testing?

 

[jis]

You're talking CY, not FY, right? March, not December for testing?

Right

If Amtrak cannot come up with the money by March, they certainly will have more difficulty later in the year, unless something happens that has a very minute probability of coming to pass, though one certain party seems to be working full time to raise that probability due to the bumbling of self and in spite of the tendency of the other party to fold at the oddest of moments. I am not naming names and will leave it at that

 

[AmtrakBlue]

You're talking CY, not FY, right? March, not December for testing?

Right

If Amtrak cannot come up with the money by March, they certainly will have more difficulty later in the year, unless something happens that has a very minute probability of coming to pass, though one certain party seems to be working full time to raise that probability due to the bumbling of self and in spite of the tendency of the other party to fold at the oddest of moments. I am not naming names and will leave it at that

Hmm? Wonder who that might be.