Viewliner Order in Jeopardy?

[dlagrua]

Its CAF's own fault that they are behind schedule. CAF probably didn't even start Viewliner production. The article appears to indicate that CAF is overwhelmed with transit contracts from SEPTA, CTA, SCCRA and not doing a good job of it.

Do you have any proof to back up those wild accusations, or are you just making stuff up again?

URPA is not what I would call a reliable, unbiased source.

No proof but I did thoroughly read both the article and NRPA statement. I assumed that since CAF is building other rail cars for state transportation agencies that something besides the Amtrak order is taking priority over the Viewliner order. Since we are not in a court of law here, I feel that ideas, opinions and assumptions are welcome. I do not believe that you have all of the facts either.

 

[jis]

Actually a quick look through the CAF site suggests that they do not keep every project and product on the site. Several of the projects/products announced in press releases over the last 3 or so years, some of which I know to be still active, are not on the list of projects and products. So I am not sure, that much should read into the absence of Amtrak from that list.

If it was such a huge event as an order cancellation I would expect to see it in Railway Age and Progressive Railway or such reputable industry journals.

Meanwhile, here is what is appearing in reputable news sources in the very recent past:

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/intercity/wabtec-to-supply-amtrak-car-components.html

 

[NE933]

The Railway Age article was about Wabtec supplying certain components. It appears that the difference between the DELIVERY date of the FIRST CAR, which is supposed to be October or so 2012, and the ENTRY INTO REVENUE SERVICE, which is slated for around March 2013, is causing speed readers to misinterpret the written word on this. The approx. 5 month difference was known since the order was made, but several posters here and abroad on other sites have misread the March 2013 entry to service date as a delay that threatens the entire order. Obviously Amtrak shall want to test them out at Pueblo and on actual routes, before signing an acceptance.

If this is not the case than will again, once more, I ask someone to step forward and explain what I'm not seeing?!

 

[Ryan]

Its CAF's own fault that they are behind schedule. CAF probably didn't even start Viewliner production. The article appears to indicate that CAF is overwhelmed with transit contracts from SEPTA, CTA, SCCRA and not doing a good job of it.

Do you have any proof to back up those wild accusations, or are you just making stuff up again?

No proof but I did thoroughly read both the article and NRPA statement. I assumed that since CAF is building other rail cars for state transportation agencies that something besides the Amtrak order is taking priority over the Viewliner order. Since we are not in a court of law here, I feel that ideas, opinions and assumptions are welcome. I do not believe that you have all of the facts either.

In other words "no".

I don't have all the facts, but I'm not jumping to any conclusions and making bold declarative statements based on nothing but hot air.

 

[Trogdor]

No proof but I did thoroughly read both the article and NRPA statement. I assumed that since CAF is building other rail cars for state transportation agencies that something besides the Amtrak order is taking priority over the Viewliner order. Since we are not in a court of law here, I feel that ideas, opinions and assumptions are welcome. I do not believe that you have all of the facts either.

What article are you talking about? Since you refer to "both the article and NRPA [sic] statement" I assume there are two places you went to get information.

Still, what other agencies are you referring to? The list in your first post (SEPTA, CTA, and SCRRA) was incorrect as none of them have any CAF products in service or on order.

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

Bruce Richardson, if you are reading me now, please engage with us why you have need to bring out a report that causes so much worry at a time in this uncertain chapter of our lives when clearly it is the last thing we need. You've done this steadily before. Isn't there some other, more constructive outlet for your own worries? If it's vengeance against Amtrak that you are after, then steal a bunch of napkins in the cafe car and kick a door. Then consider it done, and even, and don't look back. Please don't take us and yourself down this road.

If you are going down a road somewhere, though, do you think you could take Joe Vrainich with you?

 

[jis]

Still, what other agencies are you referring to? The list in your first post (SEPTA, CTA, and SCRRA) was incorrect as none of them have any CAF products in service or on order.

Scanning CAF's Press Releases back to 2010 AFAICT CAF has two LRT orders in the US, in addition to the Amtrak's 2010 order:

1. Houston (2011)

2. Cincinnati (recent)

Neither of those apparently were mentioned. Instead people keep harping on and on about the SEPTA and SCRRA and MNRR and CTA etc. orders which are not being handled by CAF. They are being handled respectively by Rotem, Rotem, Kawasaki and Bombardier. It is clearly unnecessary to check facts when one is suffering from the "Spout Forth Syndrom".

 

[VentureForth]

Yes. In the orginal article from last weeks TWAA by URPA, the orders mentioned AFTER CAF-USA's alleged stop work on the Viewliners were discussed in a manner showing how there are other passenger coach projects going on here in the USA, but the companies are all foreign based. The article lamented at the fact that there are currently no wholly owned American companies that make passenger railcars. The closest would be CAF-USA which has a foreign corporate headquarters, but is a wholly owned and operated American subsidiary. And they are still building railcars, but - again allegedly - not cranking out long distance Viewliners as they were supposed to.

 

[dlagrua]

Yes. In the orginal article from last weeks TWAA by URPA, the orders mentioned AFTER CAF-USA's alleged stop work on the Viewliners were discussed in a manner showing how there are other passenger coach projects going on here in the USA, but the companies are all foreign based. The article lamented at the fact that there are currently no wholly owned American companies that make passenger railcars. The closest would be CAF-USA which has a foreign corporate headquarters, but is a wholly owned and operated American subsidiary. And they are still building railcars, but - again allegedly - not cranking out long distance Viewliners as they were supposed to.

First the politicans create a situation where all of the domestic passenger railcar manufacturers were forced to close and now there are compaints about it. They apparently don't understand why, Budd, AMF, Pullman and other American railcar companies closed. It because America has been allowed to become the land of the fee and the home of the slave.

 

[jis]

I have finally got the scuttlebutt on this from reliable sources. Here is what happened....

Amtrak and CAF mutually discovered a concern with the design of the car underframe. The process for dealing with such a situation is to issue a stop work order until the issue is resolved to mutual satisfaction, so indeed a stop work order was issued. The issue is a relatively minor design issue and a fix is more or less in hand. Work resumes shortly with the agreed upon resolution.

As I have mentioned before, such stop work orders during the development and production of a new run is not unusual. you should see how many such were there in the Boeing 787 production line or the A-380 production line.

Hope this lays the wild rumors and speculations of lack of commitment to the order on the part of CAF or Amtrak, to rest.

Incidentally the source of this information is Amtrak personnel who were at the NARP Washington DC meeting earlier this week, and who were asked about it specifically by my friends who were at the meeting.

 

[afigg]

I have finally got the scuttlebutt on this from reliable sources. Here is what happened....

Amtrak and CAF mutually discovered a concern with the design of the car underframe. The process for dealing with such a situation is to issue a stop work order until the issue is resolved to mutual satisfaction, so indeed a stop work order was issued. The issue is a relatively minor design issue and a fix is more or less in hand. Work resumes shortly with the agreed upon resolution.

Thank you for obtaining and posting this factual piece of information. Much better than the FUD spreading and major ax grinding that goes on in the URPA blog.

 

[Ryan]

I have finally got the scuttlebutt on this from reliable sources. Here is what happened....

Amtrak and CAF mutually discovered a concern with the design of the car underframe. The process for dealing with such a situation is to issue a stop work order until the issue is resolved to mutual satisfaction, so indeed a stop work order was issued. The issue is a relatively minor design issue and a fix is more or less in hand. Work resumes shortly with the agreed upon resolution.

Thank you for obtaining and posting this factual piece of information. Much better than the FUD spreading and major ax grinding that goes on in the URPA blog.

Seconded.

This board is a much better place for the valuable information that you bring to light.

 

[NE933]

Thank you, Jis, for an excellent report which clearly shows that while things aren't perfect, they are part of what really happens. And also for being true and honest to all of us and the readers of the world for upholding a higher set of principals; the world shall be a better place if more people act with the same intentions.

 

[OBS]

You mean the sky isn't falling?

 

[Donctor]

I have finally got the scuttlebutt on this from reliable sources.

Thank you very much for doing so.

Edit: typo

 

[George Harris]

Yes. In the orginal article from last weeks TWAA by URPA, the orders mentioned AFTER CAF-USA's alleged stop work on the Viewliners were discussed in a manner showing how there are other passenger coach projects going on here in the USA, but the companies are all foreign based. The article lamented at the fact that there are currently no wholly owned American companies that make passenger railcars. The closest would be CAF-USA which has a foreign corporate headquarters, but is a wholly owned and operated American subsidiary. And they are still building railcars, but - again allegedly - not cranking out long distance Viewliners as they were supposed to.

First the politicans create a situation where all of the domestic passenger railcar manufacturers were forced to close and now there are compaints about it. They apparently don't understand why, Budd, AMF, Pullman and other American railcar companies closed.

The political actions in this whole area is best described by the joke (I hope it was, at least) I heard about the child that muredered his parents and then asked the judge for mercy because he was an orphan.

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

I add my thanks to jls for the research.

Now, AlanB, wouldn't the last 5 posts (and no doubt 20 more that stayed silent) been better off as "likes?" ;-)

 

[Ryan]

No.

 

[PRR 60]

Would I be wrong in assuming that the truth of the issue lies somewhere in between URPA's obviously biased opinion that the issue is major, and Amtrak's obviously biased opinion that this is a "relatively minor design issue" and that the fix is "more or less in hand?" Boeing said the same sort of things about the early issues with the 787, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[VentureForth]

The whole reason I even posted this to begin with war because I was suspect about the lack of sources and news online. I figured someone would get to the bottom of it. Thanks jis!

URPA is NOT without merit. However, even I can discern when more data is needed.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

URPA is sometimes righ, sure. Similarly, broken clocks are right twice a day.

 

[VentureForth]

Hyuck hyuck hyuck.....

 

[AlanB]

Now, AlanB, wouldn't the last 5 posts (and no doubt 20 more that stayed silent) been better off as "likes?" ;-)

I didn't make the decision to not turn on that feature. It didn't exist in earlier versions of the software and therefore when it became available, it was automatically turned off as a new feature.

After people asked about it a while ago, I started a topic for the staff regarding it, and more were opposed than in favor. So it remains off.

 

[Blue Marble Travel]

Well argued!

No.

 

[Ryan]

Yeah, we already had a thread where it was well argued.

You don't need to keep bringing it up in thread after thread.

The staff doesn't want it. If you want "likes", go play on Facebook.