B
Ben
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In Amtrak's 130 Viewliner car order, there is an option for 70 more of the same type of cars. Why couldn't these be coach cars instead to supplement the sleepers/diners/baggage cars?
The short haul bi-level car order is mostly to deal with service expansion, and are in general not the Superliner replacement that the Fleet Plan talks about, though some of those will help release Superliner Coaches from short haul runs to beef up consists of LD Superliner trains. They are supposed to be mostly funded by state supported corridor initiatives.Because any order for single level coach cars is going to need direct federal funding in combination with orders placed by states to support expanded corridor services. Ohio, for example, was supposed to order new equipment to support the 3C service. I think Iowa is expected to order new equipment as part of the $230 million FY2010 HSIPR award for the Iowa City - Chicago route. Illinois is likely to need new equipment if they want to expand services on the Chicago-St. Louis or the other Illinois corridors.
If I recall correctly, after the Viewliner 2 order for the LD trains and the ACS-64 electric locomotive order, Amtrak has identified their next most pressing need as ordering 150 bi-level cars. California did get $100 million in the recent FY10 grants to buy ~40 bi-level coaches and 6 locomotives for the Surfliner & San Joaquin services. The mid-West states and Amtrak may team with the California order for bi-level coach cars and Amtrak work to get some Superliner 3s as part of the order. Or the mid-West states may order Talgo trainsets instead, although the whole mess with Wisconsin will complicate going that route.
I agree. The AEM-7s gutted would be light as a feather, even if you try to weigh it down. Besides, you'd be turning them into a non-revenue piece of equipment. At least with a cab car you have 70 or so revenue seats.I hadn't heard of any idea to convert AEM-7s into cab cars.
As jis (and others) mentioned when this question was asked last week, Amtrak's fleet strategy plan (see his post for the link) details the order in which Amtrak intends to replace equipment and supplement existing equipment with additional pieces. (And, it should be noted, the desire for all-Viewliner trainsets is nowhere to be found in the planning.) After the Heritage equipment is replaced, and if funding is available, adding additional sleeping cars to single-level trains comes as a higher priority than replacing/supplementing coach cars on single-level trains.Those 130 cars should cover all the Heritage fleet, plus more. So with all that covered, why would the 70 option cars be still the same type? It would seem easy to put seats in them instead of sleeping compartments. If those 70 cars were coaches, entire trainsets could be Viewliners. The Amfleet IIs replaced could go towards replacing the Amfleet Is. The Capitol Limited and City of New Orleans could be replaced with these Viewliner trainsets, releasing Superliners to other long-distance trains.
More like with the 130 order you'll just barely bring the Eastern system to the point where it can function without extra strain of equip shortages. If we got 70 more of the same type we might actually be able to get a new train out of the ground. You could, hypothetically, make the CL single-level to free up its SL consists if you want to bring back, say, the Desert Wind-- or just use it to bring back the Silver Palm and maybe an abandoned route. I know the CL plan is to quasi resurrect the Three Rivers, but you could just do it all the way if you vary the stops in Ohio just a bit-- Hudson (Akron/Kent) and maybe Youngstown.Because the sleepers regularly sell out and Amtrak needs more sleeping cars?
That's my point. Do they have enough Amfleet IIs to start new trains? How can you make the CL single-level if you don't have enough coaches to supplement the Viewliner sleepers/diners?More like with the 130 order you'll just barely bring the Eastern system to the point where it can function without extra strain of equip shortages. If we got 70 more of the same type we might actually be able to get a new train out of the ground. You could, hypothetically, make the CL single-level to free up its SL consists if you want to bring back, say, the Desert Wind-- or just use it to bring back the Silver Palm and maybe an abandoned route. I know the CL plan is to quasi resurrect the Three Rivers, but you could just do it all the way if you vary the stops in Ohio just a bit-- Hudson (Akron/Kent) and maybe Youngstown.Because the sleepers regularly sell out and Amtrak needs more sleeping cars?
My guess is that at least initially they will augment coach capacity on LD trains using Amfleet Is that will be used for short haul passengers, of which there are many, on the LD trains. So instead of getting 4 Amfleet IIs they will get 3 Amfleet IIs and 1 Amfleet I for example. They will also probably create a pool of state funded cars that can be assigned to LD trains passing through the state in question.That's my point. Do they have enough Amfleet IIs to start new trains? How can you make the CL single-level if you don't have enough coaches to supplement the Viewliner sleepers/diners?
The RFP covers only 4 car types as spelled out, and notice that there are no Coaches in that list. So any cars that are acquired through this RFP including the additional options cars, will not have any Coaches in them. That will involve modification of the RFP and re-negotiation of prices.PURCHASE OF "VIEWLINER 2" LONG-DISTANCE SINGLE-LEVEL PASSENGER CARS
RFP# X-047-9167-001
INTRODUCTION:
Amtrak intends to issue a competitive Request for Proposal for a vendor to
design, manufacture and deliver 130 "Viewliner 2" Long Distance Single-Level
Passenger Cars, with an option for Amtrak to purchase up to an additional 70
cars. The "Viewliner 2" rolling stock which is fully described in the
Technical Specifications, will be used as Amtrak passenger trains, primarily
in long-distance service, but capable of operating anywhere within Amtrak's
system. There are four (4) "Viewliner 2" car types: Diners, Sleepers,
Baggage-Dorms and Baggage cars. The "Viewliner 2" cars will be modeled on
the concept of the Amtrak "Viewliner 1" cars.
AFAIK, there is no RFP out for single level Coaches from Amtrak. The specification for such is currently in the draft stage.IIRC isn't there an RFP out there for coaches for single level cars for short distance trains? It seems like using this order you could put it out there to make some cars comfortable for medium distance trips like the Pennsylvanian, Vermonter, Maple Leaf, Carolinian, etc...
From what I've heard, within Amtrak there is considerable debate as to what the new Single Levels will be. There are three ideas that I've personally heard of: 1) A car substantially based on the design of the Acela sets, but of lighter construction- essentially an LRC. 2) A smooth-sided modification of the Viewliner's basic design, but with a single row of large windows (ala Acela) and (obviously) two sets of vestibules. 3) A totally new design that reflects the Acela in shape but is based on neither the engineering of the LRC (as the Acela is) nor based on Amtrak's existing Viewliner design.
Sense would dictate the first two options, but Amtrak has been known to reinvent the wheel pointlessly.
The question is about single level coaches which will be spec'ed to be capable of 125 mph operation. The Viewliner 2s will run at 125 mph when on the NEC. The LD and corridor trains will run at 110 mph elsewhere as the corridors are upgraded. The cars will have to meet FRA requirements. Amtrak and the prospective manufacturers will have to work out with the FRA on how to meet those requirements.How light can you make the cars without running up against FRA regulations? The Acela is amazingly overweight due to crash-survival regulations; would new long-distance cars be built to the same specs, or are they less stringent, since LD trains go slower, generally 79 mph maximum?
Is a problem that there aren't enough of them?I've said it before and I'll say it again... what is wrong with the Amfleet II's that they need to be replaced? I've ridden on them plenty of times and they seem just fine...
Suffice it to say that there is very little to maintain in the basic body shell, which what the discussion of the base design is all about. The interior can be equipped with the same seats, toilets and luggage racks, and even HVAC packs, irrespective of which shell is used, specially in case of a Coach. In any case the wheelsets are going to be somewhat different from the current Viewliner ones, is what I have heard, which is one part that does need maintenance.This may sound dumb, but wouldn't the Viewliner-based option make more sense for places like Hialeah that already know how to maintain the Viewliner?
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