Viewliner Ride Quality...I'm Impressed!

[Mike S.]

Hey guys,

I suppose I should do a trip write up, but I've been busy. I took the LSL in a roomette from BUF to NY and back on the weekend of the 10th. I was very impressed with the viewliners.

The roomette compartment is nice, private and fairly modern. The interior of the car as a whole is very modern. The white lights and light plastic look much more updated than an Amfleet (and they should at 15 years newer!). The most impressive part was how much nicer they rode than the amfleet's over the same track. I've ridden the Empire Corridor several times now in Amfleets (about a 2 weeks prior to my first viewliner trip too) and I couldn't get over how much better the viewliners rode. When the Amfleets get above 80mph on the Empire Line they start to rattle and vibrate pretty bad. Not so with the viewliners. Now...the track may be worse on this line than say in the NE Corridor where Amfleets seem to ride fine there from my limited experience. The other convincing factor was how much more smoothly they took crossovers joints at track speed. The amfleets SLAM over them while the viewliners kind of thud and feel much more solid.

Agreee?

Mike S.

 

[spacecadet]

I've only ridden on a Viewliner once, but it was on the same route, and I was actually scared for my life a few times!

I wasn't very impressed with the ride quality. I was jolted awake at least ten times during the night - a couple times almost thrown out of my bunk (I was on the bottom or I would have been in the net).

There are various things that can affect ride quality, though. It's possible that there have been repairs or upgrades made to the track in the time since I rode. It's also possible that our train was trying to make up time whereas yours wasn't; we were very late. So speed might have been a factor. It's also possible that our car just had a worn-out suspension. But there's no question that the old heritage diner on our train had a better ride. I didn't really ride in the Amfleet coaches on our train long enough to do a direct comparison (I just walked through them a couple times).

Our door also rattled something fierce; I had to prop my shoes up against the door to shut it up.

I did like the layout of the room itself. I thought it was comfortable. I think the cars themselves are a little cold and antiseptic, though.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The Amfleets have outboard bearing trucks designed for higher speeds- 125 vs 110. The Viewliners use GSI trucks, which are superior in ride quality.

The Morrison-Knudson (which made primarily transit vehicles) built Viewliners don't have a stitch on the Edward G. Budd-built Amfleets in practically any area but ride comfort. They are better built, better designed, better performing, and more intelligently designed. If Amtrak lets them, the Amfleets will outlive the Viewliners.

That being said, the Amfleet II was not the right car. Amtrak built them with the idea that they be able to handle the same speeds as the Amfleet Is, but they shouldn't have. The Amfleet II was a weak modification of the Amfleet I design, and compromised as such. The Amfleet/Metroliner/SPV design was never intended for long-distance work.

But the Amfleets are better designed. The quality, durability, and solidity of Budd's rail car bodies is legendary, and rightfully so. Frankly, there were a hell of a lot of Heritage cars sent to the scrapyard or off to private ownership when they should still be forming the backbone of Amtrak's single level long-distance fleet. The Viewliners were a purchase that shouldn't of been made, built by a company that shouldn't have played with building LD railcars, and an order that never should have been placed. The 10-6s and Slumbercoach cars were what Amtrak should have based their future on. Not this poorly constructed heap of garbage we now know as the Viewliner.

 

[Larry H.]

We also rode the View liners from New York to Chicago a few weeks ago.. I had a roomette, and my mom a bedroom.. I can see perhaps how you might like the roomette design over say the superliners as they have at least a toilet. And in the roomettes the ride was not too bad. Personally I didn't like the design of the cars, they seemed cold and poorly designed.. I longed for the old pullman feeling of wrap around quality and comfort.. The bedroom was absolutely the worst riding and nosiest experience I have ever had.. The noise was so bad at some speeds you couldn't hold a conversation, and how you slept in there with all the banging and rattling was beyond me.. In fact I wrote them about coming up with a fix for some of those issues on return. I am still amazed at how the powers that be at amtrak can ignore the most basic and aggravating problems which might be easily solved with a bit of effort. I think that banging sliding bedroom divider could be fixed with a few hours of thought and pretty cheaply.. But no they just let them bang, why not they don't ride! The bedroom seemed cold and I didn't like the odd open spaces that go off in every direction and walls that stopped short of the ceiling. A small part, but if you like good design, they aren't. In the roomette I had exactly one Velcro pad that lined up with anything which made using the toilet and even dressing a challenge. Unfortunately that is not only a view liner issue. I wrote and ask them how hard it would be to set a standard of a piece of velcro every 12' and make all of them to match.. Mine were sewn all at different heights and only the one matched the wall or connecting other curtain. Here again, a management decision that shows no one cars what the heck goes.. The reading lights were both broke in my room, one had no light the other was so dim it was useless and it fell out in my hand when I tried to adjust it.. The bedroom had holes sawed out of the doors and some hardware store latch applied which didn't tighten the door so it added to being hard to use as well looking very unprofessional.

Isn't it a shame to have to be so negative? I don't really like it. But you just have to wonder who is in Charge! When I used to supervise people that did maintenance in buildings I would tell them if you could see something dirty or broken it needs to be fixed. Evidently that does not apply at amtrak.

Oh yes on the lakeshore is where the water was pouring in through the connecting hoods. The answer to that issue from the conductor was, "what do you expect its raining outside".. Well it wasn't pouring in any other cars and the slick metal floor was very dangerous covered with water, especially the way the cars were lurching and bouncing at the connections..

 

[Montanan]

My opinion is very similar to Larry's ... in general, I don't think the Viewliners are terribly well-designed, they're not well-maintained, and they're not holding up well under Amtrak's haphazard maintenance program. And though I like having the folding sink, I otherwise much prefer the Superliner arrangement with a larger seat and the toilets down the hall.

 

[Rafi]

Well, mark me down as one of the ones who, hands down, prefers the Viewliner's ride and room layout to that of a Superliner. Riding the NEC on a Viewliner at 125 MPH is like sitting on a cushion of air, and while the tracks south and west of DC are definitely bumpier, the ride the Viewliner provides on those routes is just smoother than the Amfleet II in my experience. I find the rooms to have a cleaner feel, and the added visibility that the upper level windows provide make the rooms fantastic for watching scenery. I just really like the Viewliner, I guess.

-Rafi

 

[Tony]

My opinion is very similar to Larry's ... in general, I don't think the Viewliners are terribly well-designed, they're not well-maintained, and they're not holding up well under Amtrak's haphazard maintenance program. And though I like having the folding sink, I otherwise much prefer the Superliner arrangement with a larger seat and the toilets down the hall.

I have to agree, too, that the Viewliners are not being well-maintained.

Everything from the non-functioning/non-existent coffee makers, to the replacement of the hallway side pull down blinds with poorly sized/designed blue curtains. The replacement of the built-in door locks, with those cabinet draw locks, is another poorly thought thru maintenance change.

There always seems to be at least one burnt out light bulb in every roomette I have ever had.

However, IMHO, the Viewliner's roomette's sink and toilet makes it far far better than the Superliner's roomette. Sorry, I absolutely hate having to worry if there will be a free common-use toilet available when I need it. Plus, I absolutely hate having to "dress" if I need to go in the middle of the night. I can brush my teeth and wash my hands whenever I want to with the in-roomette sink, without any regard to worrying that I might be holding up some stranger waiting outside.

Plus, of course, that nice storage cubby in the Viewliner's roomette makes convenient and more secure storage of my luggage (and laptop).

 

[Larry H.]

Rafi,

On the Lake Shore once it gets up to speed the noise of the bedrooms almost overcomes the jolting of the ride. I have a hard time agreeing on this one. It was by far the worst bedroom experience ever. Even though some super liners are a bit noisy at times, they are super quiet in comparison. Maybe on the north east corridor they ride better, but out in the real world it was awful. Now in defense of what you said, I did find the roomette a fairly nice ride and the feel of it better than the bedrooms which seemed to go off in all directions up a round the ceiling which was rather erie in my book.. Not a cozy feel by any means. The problems with the details exist system wide when it comes to lights, drapes, ect.

 

[Chatter163]

When one is in bed, in the darkness, there is always the illusion that one is going faster or that the ride is bumpier. Some of this has to do with the equilibrium of the body, the absence of passing images to equalize the sensory details taken in by the brain, and the horizontal position in the dark.

 

[spacecadet]

However, IMHO, the Viewliner's roomette's sink and toilet makes it far far better than the Superliner's roomette.

For one person, I can see that. For two people, it can be a little weird. And am I the only one that thinks it's a little disgusting sitting right next to a toilet bowl all the time? If you guys watched Mythbusters, you'd know how much fecal matter there is all over the average bathroom... (as they said, "there's poo everywhere!")

I liked it in the slumbercoaches because I was always traveling alone back then and, well, Mythbusters didn't exist yet

But now, traveling with my wife, I'd rather not have a toilet in the room unless it's got permanent walls around it, like in the regular bedrooms.

I don't know how many bathrooms there are in Superliners these days but when I last rode there was something like eight per car, which was more than enough for 30 passengers to basically never have to wait to use one.

 

[Bierboy]

Don't know if this is the right place to ask the question, but since we're discussing roomettes on the Viewliners vs. Superliners, here goes. The family took a rail trip to DC from Chicago on the Cardinal six years ago, and we had two roomettes (w/sink & toilet). Last year, the wife and I took the SW Chief to LA from Chicago in a bedroom (for our 30th anniversary....VERY nice). This spring we're taking the Empire Builder from Chicago to Essex, Montana to visit a good friend. We've booked a roomette for the overnight, and I'm curious if the seats on the Superliner roomettes are wider than on the Viewliners. I've read posts that they are, but I've checked the dimensions on Amraks Web site, and it lists the lower bunk as four inches narrower on the Superliner compared to the Viewliner. That would indicate to me that the seats would be narrower on the Superliner'? I would think without a toilet/sink in the Superliner roomette that the seats would be wider. What's the real story?

 

[Montanan]

Don't know if this is the right place to ask the question, but since we're discussing roomettes on the Viewliners vs. Superliners, here goes. The family took a rail trip to DC from Chicago on the Cardinal six years ago, and we had two roomettes (w/sink & toilet). Last year, the wife and I took the SW Chief to LA from Chicago in a bedroom (for our 30th anniversary....VERY nice). This spring we're taking the Empire Builder from Chicago to Essex, Montana to visit a good friend. We've booked a roomette for the overnight, and I'm curious if the seats on the Superliner roomettes are wider than on the Viewliners. I've read posts that they are, but I've checked the dimensions on Amraks Web site, and it lists the lower bunk as four inches narrower on the Superliner compared to the Viewliner. That would indicate to me that the seats would be narrower on the Superliner'? I would think without a toilet/sink in the Superliner roomette that the seats would be wider. What's the real story?

Basically, the short answer is that the two seats in a Superliner roomette are the same size, while a Viewliner roomette has one wide seat and one narrower one (on the toilet side). And for the same reason, the Viewliner beds are narrower at the foot than at the head, while the Superliner berths are rectangular.

 

[Tony]

If you guys watched Mythbusters, you'd know how much fecal matter there is all over the average bathroom... (as they said, "there's poo everywhere!")

If we watched the same episode, it has to do with flushing and the spray of "water" which can come out of a home toilet when its lid isn't closed first. On the trains, the toilets don't flush like they do at home.

Plus, the Viewliner's roomette toilet doesn't look much like a toilet when the lid/step is down.

Possibly, the Viewliner's roomette doesn't bother me, after "camping" in some smallish trailers with their "inventive" bathrooms.

 

[Railroad Bill]

Wife and I just returned from 30th Anniversary trip CLE-CHI-NOL-NYP-CLE. We had never ridden in a Viewliner sleeper having taken nearly all of our long distance trips on Superliners. We rode the Crescent from New Orleans to NYP and the Lake Shore from NYP to CLE.

We both agreed that although it was convenient in the middle of the night, we both prefer the bathroom to be outside our room. The Superliners had three bathrooms on the lower floor and one on the upper deck where our sleepers are and never found a time when all were in use. (especially at 2 or 3 in the morning )

I did enjoy the windows on the upper bunk, the larger storage area above the aisle enclosure and the increased lighting options. Seats were not that much different. Did enjoy the shower on the same floor.

Advantages and disadvantages to both. I agree if you are traveling along, the Viewliner is a nice ride with the toilet but we will vote for the Superliners when together and when available

Slept pretty well on the Crescent across the Carolinas and fairly well on the Lake Shore (of course we disembark at 3:30am in Cleveland

All depends on the track and how tired you are.

Railroad and Mrs. Bill-- lovin' Amtrak

 

[ralfp]

We also rode the View liners from New York to Chicago a few weeks ago.. I had a roomette, and my mom a bedroom.. I can see perhaps how you might like the roomette design over say the superliners as they have at least a toilet. And in the roomettes the ride was not too bad. Personally I didn't like the design of the cars, they seemed cold and poorly designed.. I longed for the old pullman feeling of wrap around quality and comfort.. The bedroom was absolutely the worst riding and nosiest experience I have ever had.. The noise was so bad at some speeds you couldn't hold a conversation, and how you slept in there with all the banging and rattling was beyond me.. In fact I wrote them about coming up with a fix for some of those issues on return. I am still amazed at how the powers that be at amtrak can ignore the most basic and aggravating problems which might be easily solved with a bit of effort. I think that banging sliding bedroom divider could be fixed with a few hours of thought and pretty cheaply.. But no they just let them bang, why not they don't ride! The bedroom seemed cold and I didn't like the odd open spaces that go off in every direction and walls that stopped short of the ceiling. A small part, but if you like good design, they aren't. In the roomette I had exactly one Velcro pad that lined up with anything which made using the toilet and even dressing a challenge. Unfortunately that is not only a view liner issue. I wrote and ask them how hard it would be to set a standard of a piece of velcro every 12' and make all of them to match.. Mine were sewn all at different heights and only the one matched the wall or connecting other curtain. Here again, a management decision that shows no one cars what the heck goes.. The reading lights were both broke in my room, one had no light the other was so dim it was useless and it fell out in my hand when I tried to adjust it.. The bedroom had holes sawed out of the doors and some hardware store latch applied which didn't tighten the door so it added to being hard to use as well looking very unprofessional.

Aside from the silly curtain velcro situation, I found that the Viewliner Roomette (on my one and only US sleeper trip) was very thoughtfully designed. It was perfect for one person. Space was very well utilized, but it did have a "hand made" (low quality) feel to it.

Some complaints:

• I wish the table were a bit wider. My notebook computer fit between the lips (whatever they're called), but not when headphones or my mouse were plugged in.
  
• There should be some way to lock the door when leaving the room. The lock doesn't have to be highly secure; even two connection points for zip-ties would be good.
  
• There are too many places for nasty stuff to hide (old food/wrappers, etc.), making the rooms tough to clean.
  
• The window on my upper bunk (by the wide section) was scratched up.
  

As for the toilet, the other passenger can always hang out outside for the duration of use.

 

[Bierboy]

Some complaints:

• There should be some way to lock the door when leaving the room. The lock doesn't have to be highly secure; even two connection points for zip-ties would be good.
  

That's one gripe I have; why don't they provide some kind of locking mechanism when you leave the room. They don't have these on the Superliner bedrooms or roomettes either. With the increase in technology, it makes one hesitant to leave your camcorder, GPS, laptop, portable scanner, etc. in the room when dining or heading to the observation/lounge car.

 

[Larry H.]

When one is in bed, in the darkness, there is always the illusion that one is going faster or that the ride is bumpier. Some of this has to do with the equilibrium of the body, the absence of passing images to equalize the sensory details taken in by the brain, and the horizontal position in the dark.

The worst section of track for sleeping now that I think about it was on the Empire Builder out of and returning too St. Paul.. I never did understand why that couple of sections could be so awful on an otherwise great ride.. Other than that I pretty much slept fine on my other west coast trips this and last year as well as the Capitol Limited a few weeks ago.. Really the viewliner roomette slept fine too, but as I pointed out the bedroom was unexceptable in noise and ride to me.

 

[Crescent ATN & TCL]

Some complaints:

• There should be some way to lock the door when leaving the room. The lock doesn't have to be highly secure; even two connection points for zip-ties would be good.
  

That's one gripe I have; why don't they provide some kind of locking mechanism when you leave the room. They don't have these on the Superliner bedrooms or roomettes either. With the increase in technology, it makes one hesitant to leave your camcorder, GPS, laptop, portable scanner, etc. in the room when dining or heading to the observation/lounge car.

They don't have locks so that the Sleeping Car Attendant can convert your bed from day use to night use while you're away at dinner.

 

[ralfp]

They don't have locks so that the Sleeping Car Attendant can convert your bed from day use to night use while you're away at dinner.

My zip-tie idea would allow this; just issue the attendant with a pair of scissors and more zip-ties to reseal the room.

Of course they'd probably have to be FRA-approved zip-ties, which run for $50 a piece.

 

[Crescent Mark]

Some complaints:

• There should be some way to lock the door when leaving the room. The lock doesn't have to be highly secure; even two connection points for zip-ties would be good.
  

That's one gripe I have; why don't they provide some kind of locking mechanism when you leave the room. They don't have these on the Superliner bedrooms or roomettes either. With the increase in technology, it makes one hesitant to leave your camcorder, GPS, laptop, portable scanner, etc. in the room when dining or heading to the observation/lounge car.

They don't have locks so that the Sleeping Car Attendant can convert your bed from day use to night use while you're away at dinner.

Put locks in, some sort of mini-key system and a master key for the attendants. Can't be that hard, surely.

 

[Bierboy]

...Put locks in, some sort of mini-key system and a master key for the attendants. Can't be that hard, surely.

Exactly....how hard would that be? Motels/hotels do it all over the world.

 

[Tony]

As for the toilet, the other passenger can always hang out outside for the duration of use.

That's exactly what we do.

And its a good excuse for the other passenger to stretch their legs and go for a walk.

 

[x-press]

As for the toilet, the other passenger can always hang out outside for the duration of use.

That's exactly what we do.

And its a good excuse for the other passenger to stretch their legs and go for a walk.

It solves the "privacy problem," but doesn't solve the problem that you're basically spending an overnight trip in a bathroom. Smells linger long after the business . . . I'm not even convinced it's sanitary.

 

[ralfp]

It solves the "privacy problem," but doesn't solve the problem that you're basically spending an overnight trip in a bathroom. Smells linger long after the business . . . I'm not even convinced it's sanitary.

I remember that the ventilation was actually quite good. One could always head over to another car and use the toilet there.

 

[Chris J.]

...Put locks in, some sort of mini-key system and a master key for the attendants. Can't be that hard, surely.

Exactly....how hard would that be? Motels/hotels do it all over the world.

The main difference is that in a hotel people tend to 'trickle' in and out, on a train board a train arrive and leave in very distinct 'blocks'.

The attendant would need to ensure keys were given out to passengers on arrival. This maybe not too hard, he/she needs to point them to their room anyway and so hand over the key at that time. The room should be unlocked before the passenger(s) get to it - you don't want the corridor full of people fiddling with keys at stops.

The keys also need to be collected before the passenger gets off the train. I guess the attendant could collect the keys when doing the "you'll be there in 30 mins" round?

I can imagine people losing the keys, forgetting to give it back and so on (which might be a problem if the room is re-used further along the route)