Viewliner Ride Quality...I'm Impressed!

[Ryan]

...Put locks in, some sort of mini-key system and a master key for the attendants. Can't be that hard, surely.

Exactly....how hard would that be? Motels/hotels do it all over the world.

The main difference is that in a hotel people tend to 'trickle' in and out, on a train board a train arrive and leave in very distinct 'blocks'.

The attendant would need to ensure keys were given out to passengers on arrival. This maybe not too hard, he/she needs to point them to their room anyway and so hand over the key at that time. The room should be unlocked before the passenger(s) get to it - you don't want the corridor full of people fiddling with keys at stops.

The keys also need to be collected before the passenger gets off the train. I guess the attendant could collect the keys when doing the "you'll be there in 30 mins" round?

I can imagine people losing the keys, forgetting to give it back and so on (which might be a problem if the room is re-used further along the route)

I was trying to post something along these lines just as the forum was going down last night - the key management would be a royal pain to deal with, and really the bottom line is that it's a solution in search of a problem. Theft from sleepers by all accounts is non existent. All one has to do is leave the curtain closed and a would be thief (a fellow sleeper pax most likely, since the coach folks are generally kept in the back) doesn't know if you're in the room or not, and is going to be extremely hesitant to try to come in. In the rare event that they do come in, where are they going to go on a moving train? Not far!

 

[Green Maned Lion]

My opinion is very similar to Larry's ... in general, I don't think the Viewliners are terribly well-designed, they're not well-maintained, and they're not holding up well under Amtrak's haphazard maintenance program. And though I like having the folding sink, I otherwise much prefer the Superliner arrangement with a larger seat and the toilets down the hall.

The Viewliners, as I mentioned earlier, were poorly built to begin with.

Well, mark me down as one of the ones who, hands down, prefers the Viewliner's ride and room layout to that of a Superliner. Riding the NEC on a Viewliner at 125 MPH is like sitting on a cushion of air, and while the tracks south and west of DC are definitely bumpier, the ride the Viewliner provides on those routes is just smoother than the Amfleet II in my experience. I find the rooms to have a cleaner feel, and the added visibility that the upper level windows provide make the rooms fantastic for watching scenery. I just really like the Viewliner, I guess.
-Rafi

It has some nice points, but dude... riding better than an Amfleet is not really something to crow about. A sawbacked horse walking in a pebble sea rides better than an Amfleet.

Put locks in, some sort of mini-key system and a master key for the attendants. Can't be that hard, surely.

For the past 140 years, indeeed, since the dawn of the sleeping car, American sleeping cars have never had exterior locking mechanisms. I don't know about all European trains, but I do recall that most cars don't have them, and the ones that did required the attendant to lock and open on request. There are many good reasons for this, including the transient nature of trains, and the highly limited nature of access, as well as the generally very low chance of theft to begin with.

It solves the "privacy problem," but doesn't solve the problem that you're basically spending an overnight trip in a bathroom. Smells linger long after the business . . . I'm not even convinced it's sanitary.

Practically every private room accomodation every built- I'm pretty sure I can accurately state every one built by Budd- had toilets in them. From the Master Rooms, Drawing Rooms, and Bedrooms, to the tiny Single and Double Slumbercoach rooms, they all had them. This leads some people to say that the Superliner Roomette/Economy Bedroom is more of an enclosed section than a true roomette/compartment. If you want to argue that the ventilation and latrine sealing cover are of poor effectiveness in the Viewliner, you may have a point. But there is no inherrent problem with open commode bathrooms. Heck, even the master suite of the Reading Railroad's business car has an unenclosed toilet. (If you wanna ride in that car, the Strasburg Railroad runs it as its Presidents car in the summer- read my trip report)

A quick hitory lesson about the Amfeet II and the Viewliner.

The Amfleet II was not actually intended to be a long-term long-distance car. It was intended to be more of a medium distance car, running on routes along the lines of the Vermonter, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, and Palmetto, as well as a stopgap until the arrival of the Superliner IIs could allow the last of the Pullman built Heritage fleet to be retired.

The Viewliner was intended to be the actual fleet of Amtrak long-distance coaches. Baggage-dorms, Diners, sightseer-like Lounge cars, and coaches were planned, as well as double the number of sleepers actually delivered. The Amfleet IIs were then to be consigned to the medium-distance routes (read: Day trains) they were designed for. They were initially designed by Budd and Amtrak jointly.

Two things happened. First, Budd went out of business. This should have killed the program- expecting anyone to built a car half as well as Budd could was an act of sheer optimism. Insanity even. Second, Reagan and Clinton cut Amtrak's funding. Amtrak had the ok to build cars, quickly found Morrison-Knudson willing to build them (MK had no experience with this kind of thing- it shouldn't have happened) and got as many cars out of them as money allowed.

It was the wrong course of action. The Viewliner as a whole program made plenty of sense. Budd knew how to build cars, and a set of pure long distance trains designed for the purpose would have been a boon to Amtrak. The Viewliner/Heritage/Amfeet II program simply doesn't work. It means there are 3 types of cars on any long distance single level, and all of them are very very different. It was a mistake, a comedy of errors only a government agency can conduct.

 

[sky12065]

I was trying to post something along these lines just as the forum was going down last night - the key management would be a royal pain to deal with, and really the bottom line is that it's a solution in search of a problem. Theft from sleepers by all accounts is non existent. All one has to do is leave the curtain closed and a would be thief (a fellow sleeper pax most likely, since the coach folks are generally kept in the back) doesn't know if you're in the room or not, and is going to be extremely hesitant to try to come in. In the rare event that they do come in, where are they going to go on a moving train? Not far!

I agree with what you've said! Since the caveman invented the train, passengers have not used locks to secure their rooms on trains except in some private train situations (Probably) or where some enterprising passenger found their own solution. So I see no reason to open a whole bag of additional problems for train attendants and conductors to deal with.

BTW, I know that the caveman invented the wheel and not the train, so let's not have anyone get their engineer's hat yanked down over their eyes and twisted over it! :lol:

 

[Bierboy]

Having only traveled on Amtrak a few times in the past six years, I'm glad to hear that theft is a nearly non-existent problem. My concern is the with the enormous increase in electronic "gadgets" used on trains (e.g., portable scanners, GPS, iPods, cell phones, PDAs, laptops, digital cameras, camcorders, etc.).

 

[AlanB]

Everything from the non-functioning/non-existent coffee makers, to the replacement of the hallway side pull down blinds with poorly sized/designed blue curtains. The replacement of the built-in door locks, with those cabinet draw locks, is another poorly thought thru maintenance change.

While I lament the loss of the original coffee makers, I do understand why they were removed. First, because the attendant had to frequently stop to make a new pot. Second, because many people were burned trying to pour the coffee out of the metal pot, when the train hit a bump. Only poor maintenance and/or a lack of a budget to repair the darn things can account for the non-functioning ones now installed.

As for the pull down blinds, while they were superior to the curtains both in terms on ease of use and room darkening, they were very costly to maintain and fix. Both the cost of parts and the labor to replace them when they started breaking, was the reason for the curtains being installed. They cost next to nothing to buy, maintenance is easy, and they are simple to replace when there is a problem.

The same applies to the door locks. Again they were very expensive to replace and maintain, and they were also confusing to many first time riders who'd panic when they couldn't open the door, even though they had unlocked it. The catch had this odd habit of jamming with the train's motion. One would often need to push the door fully closed in order to get the door to unlatch. If the door moved just slightly open, even though the catch was still holding, it would put too much tension on the mechanism and it would not release. Additionally the "lever" that one pushed had to be pushed just right, as it swung on a pivot point. If one pushed too much on the top IIRC, then the door would not open. One had to push harder at the lower end of the "lever", again IIRC (I might have it backwards as it's been a while since I've seen a working one).

I personally let more than a few people out of their room who couldn't figure out how to open the door because of the above issues, and I'm sure that most attendants had to do the same for their charges. So again to avoid those problems and reduce maintenance costs, the Viewliners have gradually had their door locks replaced as they rotate through the refurbishment programs. I think that there are probably still a few that haven't had the locks replaced, I had one last summer, but they are becoming rare. Note, these are the same style of locks that the Superliner's have had for years.

Could Amtrak perhaps have found some better answer to the shades and the locks? Possibly, although I'm not sure what they might have done. However it is clear that the built in shades and locks were a costly maintenance nightmare for Amtrak. So they choose the tried and true methods that have worked in the Superliner cars for years, when confronted by the much higher maintenance and replacement costs of the built in systems in the Viewliner cars.

 

[Bierboy]

Everything from the non-functioning/non-existent coffee makers, to the replacement of the hallway side pull down blinds with poorly sized/designed blue curtains. The replacement of the built-in door locks, with those cabinet draw locks, is another poorly thought thru maintenance change.

While I lament the loss of the original coffee makers, I do understand why they were removed. First, because the attendant had to frequently stop to make a new pot. Second, because many people were burned trying to pour the coffee out of the metal pot, when the train hit a bump. Only poor maintenance and/or a lack of a budget to repair the darn things can account for the non-functioning ones now installed.

As for the pull down blinds, while they were superior to the curtains both in terms on ease of use and room darkening, they were very costly to maintain and fix. Both the cost of parts and the labor to replace them when they started breaking, was the reason for the curtains being installed. They cost next to nothing to buy, maintenance is easy, and they are simple to replace when there is a problem.

The same applies to the door locks. Again they were very expensive to replace and maintain, and they were also confusing to many first time riders who'd panic when they couldn't open the door, even though they had unlocked it. The catch had this odd habit of jamming with the train's motion. One would often need to push the door fully closed in order to get the door to unlatch. If the door moved just slightly open, even though the catch was still holding, it would put too much tension on the mechanism and it would not release. Additionally the "lever" that one pushed had to be pushed just right, as it swung on a pivot point. If one pushed too much on the top IIRC, then the door would not open. One had to push harder at the lower end of the "lever", again IIRC (I might have it backwards as it's been a while since I've seen a working one).

I personally let more than a few people out of their room who couldn't figure out how to open the door because of the above issues, and I'm sure that most attendants had to do the same for their charges. So again to avoid those problems and reduce maintenance costs, the Viewliners have gradually had their door locks replaced as they rotate through the refurbishment programs. I think that there are probably still a few that haven't had the locks replaced, I had one last summer, but they are becoming rare. Note, these are the same style of locks that the Superliner's have had for years.

Could Amtrak perhaps have found some better answer to the shades and the locks? Possibly, although I'm not sure what they might have done. However it is clear that the built in shades and locks were a costly maintenance nightmare for Amtrak. So they choose the tried and true methods that have worked in the Superliner cars for years, when confronted by the much higher maintenance and replacement costs of the built in systems in the Viewliner cars.

Alan -

I appreciate your detailed explanations...make perfect sense.

John

 

[AlanB]

If you guys watched Mythbusters, you'd know how much fecal matter there is all over the average bathroom... (as they said, "there's poo everywhere!")

If we watched the same episode, it has to do with flushing and the spray of "water" which can come out of a home toilet when its lid isn't closed first. On the trains, the toilets don't flush like they do at home.

Plus, the Viewliner's roomette toilet doesn't look much like a toilet when the lid/step is down.

It should also be noted that unlike your home toilet, the toilets on the train use very little water during the flush mode and there is a vacuum sucking everything down the pipe. Even if there is any actual "spray" created by the flush, it wouldn't escape the vacuum pulling it down.

 

[access bob]

Hey guys,
I suppose I should do a trip write up, but I've been busy. I took the LSL in a roomette from BUF to NY and back on the weekend of the 10th. I was very impressed with the viewliners.

The roomette compartment is nice, private and fairly modern. The interior of the car as a whole is very modern. The white lights and light plastic look much more updated than an Amfleet (and they should at 15 years newer!). The most impressive part was how much nicer they rode than the amfleet's over the same track. I've ridden the Empire Corridor several times now in Amfleets (about a 2 weeks prior to my first viewliner trip too) and I couldn't get over how much better the viewliners rode. When the Amfleets get above 80mph on the Empire Line they start to rattle and vibrate pretty bad. Not so with the viewliners. Now...the track may be worse on this line than say in the NE Corridor where Amfleets seem to ride fine there from my limited experience. The other convincing factor was how much more smoothly they took crossovers joints at track speed. The amfleets SLAM over them while the viewliners kind of thud and feel much more solid.

Agreee?

Mike S.

I didn't have problem with the ride on the Cardinal, which is the only train I've ridden them on, however some of the design features are really poorly designed, (I'm an engineer) one of the dumbest features in the "H" room is that the only outlet is on the doorframe between the entry door and the bathroom door. gotta unplug anything to get in and out of the room or bathroom, and you better have an extension cord to reach the little table.

and have they ever tried to use the room in a wheelcbair??? gotta go into the bathroom to turn around or back out into the hall all the way to the vestibule to turn around,' and I don't know if it would even be possible to get out with the bed folded down at all, since the door won't open all the way with the bed down, if one has anything other than a minature wheelchair..

I don't think Amtrak believes that anyone in a wheelchair ever travels alone, nothing is set up for independent use it seems, and the Viewliner may be the worst, surprisingly the old 10/6 sleeper roomette 10H was much better even though much smaller...

the lower bed wasn't very comfortable either. and personally I don't like sleeping sideways to direction of travel, but others seem to prefer that so that is a personal opinion.

also only one person in the room can use the window because of the seat design, and while the seat is wide enough and Amtrak will sell it as a 3 person room, the seat is divided in half for reclining so if three persons they would all have to agree to seat angle.

one person's opinion though.

Bob

 

[Mike S.]

Back to my original post...I'm still impressed with how much smoother the viewliners rode over the same track than the Amfleet's. I was totally used to the amfleets slaming over switches at speed. Maybe the viewliners do too...but are just better isolated.

 

[The Metropolitan]

Yes, back to your original post.

I too was impressed with the Ride on the Viewliner the one time I rode one on the Crescent. I'm not too much of a detail noticer, but it dawned on me instantly when we pulled out of New Orleans. Even over switches and jointed rail, it just had this smooth gliding feel.

Big thumbs up from me.

That and the upper bunk you can actually sit in were big time plusses for me.

 

[Larry H.]

One other thing I noticed in the Viewliner Bed Room I didn't like.. On the superliners I would often lay on the lower seat to take a nap in my moms room.. On the viewliner my head wouldn't fit due to the length of the sofa and the arm rest.. I had to hang my head at an angle off the edge to lay down, not a bit comfortable.. it may be the same size, but something is different when laying down during the day. A small thing, but an inconvenience compared to the superliner bed room.

I didn't care for the coffee pot that uses liquid coffee concentrate either. The superliner drip or perk (?) pots made much better coffee to my taste.

 

[AlanB]

One other thing I noticed in the Viewliner Bed Room I didn't like.. On the superliners I would often lay on the lower seat to take a nap in my moms room.. On the viewliner my head wouldn't fit due to the length of the sofa and the arm rest.. I had to hang my head at an angle off the edge to lay down, not a bit comfortable.. it may be the same size, but something is different when laying down during the day. A small thing, but an inconvenience compared to the superliner bed room.

The lower bunk in a Viewliner bedroom is 3 inches shorter than the lower bunk in a Superliner bedroom.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

The keys also need to be collected before the passenger gets off the train. I guess the attendant could collect the keys when doing the "you'll be there in 30 mins" round?

While I'm really not convinced that installing hotel style locks on the sleeping cars is worth the effort, the typical magnetic key cards hotels use probably cost less than $.50 each. That's probably less than the value of the complimentary water bottles Amtrak provides to sleeping car passengers, so if passengers fail to return the key cards, it sort of wouldn't matter.

However, the other clever thing to do would be to make the ticket stub be the key, with a design so that the the key will work if the stub is still attached to the main body of the ticket. Maybe that doesn't work if Amtrak is going to e-ticketing. But otherwise, there could either be a magnetic stripe on a new form of ticket stock (possibly a poor choice if that means that all the tickets for non-sleeper passengers need a wasted magnetic stripe because the printers don't have bins for multiple stocks), or perhaps Amtrak could start printing barcodes on the ticket, and install barcode readers in the cars. You wouldn't necessarily need a barcode reader for every door; you could perhaps have a barcode reader that's shared between four adjacent roomettes, and which barcode is scanned will tell the reader which roomette to unlock.

I bet with the barcode approach, an e-ticket printout could have a barcode of sufficient quality for the barcode reader to recognize it.

I bet the complete cost of installing a barcode lock system like this would work out to less than $1k per compartment. That's basically nothing when you consider that each compartment probably produces well over $10 million of revenue in its lifetime.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The keys also need to be collected before the passenger gets off the train. I guess the attendant could collect the keys when doing the "you'll be there in 30 mins" round?

While I'm really not convinced that installing hotel style locks on the sleeping cars is worth the effort, the typical magnetic key cards hotels use probably cost less than $.50 each. That's probably less than the value of the complimentary water bottles Amtrak provides to sleeping car passengers, so if passengers fail to return the key cards, it sort of wouldn't matter.

However, the other clever thing to do would be to make the ticket stub be the key, with a design so that the the key will work if the stub is still attached to the main body of the ticket. Maybe that doesn't work if Amtrak is going to e-ticketing. But otherwise, there could either be a magnetic stripe on a new form of ticket stock (possibly a poor choice if that means that all the tickets for non-sleeper passengers need a wasted magnetic stripe because the printers don't have bins for multiple stocks), or perhaps Amtrak could start printing barcodes on the ticket, and install barcode readers in the cars. You wouldn't necessarily need a barcode reader for every door; you could perhaps have a barcode reader that's shared between four adjacent roomettes, and which barcode is scanned will tell the reader which roomette to unlock.

I bet with the barcode approach, an e-ticket printout could have a barcode of sufficient quality for the barcode reader to recognize it.

I bet the complete cost of installing a barcode lock system like this would work out to less than $1k per compartment. That's basically nothing when you consider that each compartment probably produces well over $10 million of revenue in its lifetime.

On the otherhand, they are an item of annoyance maintnence wise, will cost a fortune over its lifetime, and serves virtually no real purpose, and adds practically no value.

 

[Larry H.]

...Put locks in, some sort of mini-key system and a master key for the attendants. Can't be that hard, surely.

Exactly....how hard would that be? Motels/hotels do it all over the world.

In case you haven't noticed Amtrak is unable to do most things right that would put any hotel worth its salt out of business..

 

[spacecadet]

It should also be noted that unlike your home toilet, the toilets on the train use very little water during the flush mode and there is a vacuum sucking everything down the pipe. Even if there is any actual "spray" created by the flush, it wouldn't escape the vacuum pulling it down.

Not many people think their home toilet sprays all over the room either, but it does. And not to get too yucky or anything here, but any train car has the added possibility of somebody bumping into something (forwards or backwards) or falling on their seat/bed before they have fully re-dressed after using the toilet. I guarantee if you swabbed any Viewliner bedroom, it's going to have e. coli and other bacteria everywhere.

I mean, there are reasons why we don't all put toilets (even vacuum-driven ones) in the middle of our bedrooms at home.

I understand that every type of room on a train in the old days had a toilet. I'm not talking about toilets that are separate within a room, as in the regular bedrooms both today and in the past. I'm just talking about unsheltered toilets. And surely people can understand that standards of hygiene and cleanliness have changed over the years as we've learned about the causes of various illnesses. Remember how people used to talk about "24 hour flu"? Yeah, food poisoning or other bacterial infection. People used to die of fully preventable stuff like staph infections at a far greater rate than they do today. And a lot more people got sick, without knowing why. But we know why now, and a lot of it is simple cleanliness. (My wife's a nurse, so her philosophy has obviously rubbed off on me a little bit.)

I'd still ride in a Viewliner bedroom but I'll always feel a little dirty doing it, and I'd always be really careful about anything I ate in the room. You basically have to treat the whole room as if it's a bathroom.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

So why don't hospitals make more effort to get patients out of their bed and into bathrooms? I've generally gotten the impression that hospitals think that keeping people plugged into the walls in various ways (where it's generally not obvious what would be difficult about building a 50 foot extension cord if this mattered) is far more important...

Also, why do people keep their toothbrushes in their bathrooms if this is a problem?

 

[Galls]

For locking electronics up all Amtrak would need to do in that regard is provide an anchor point in the room and then sell laptop locks for a profit, I do not think anyone is gonna bring wire cutters on a train.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

For locking electronics up all Amtrak would need to do in that regard is provide an anchor point in the room and then sell laptop locks for a profit, I do not think anyone is gonna bring wire cutters on a train.

My last couple of train trips, I've brought tools that are probably perfectly adequate for cutting and stripping 14 guage copper wire in a pinch, and quite possibly some larger sizes. I'm not sure they'd quite work for cutting laptop locks, though.

 

[Bierboy]

For locking electronics up all Amtrak would need to do in that regard is provide an anchor point in the room and then sell laptop locks for a profit, I do not think anyone is gonna bring wire cutters on a train.

My last couple of train trips, I've brought tools that are probably perfectly adequate for cutting and stripping 14 guage copper wire in a pinch, and quite possibly some larger sizes. I'm not sure they'd quite work for cutting laptop locks, though.

I don't think I wanna travel on the same train as you....

 

[Green Maned Lion]

It should also be noted that unlike your home toilet, the toilets on the train use very little water during the flush mode and there is a vacuum sucking everything down the pipe. Even if there is any actual "spray" created by the flush, it wouldn't escape the vacuum pulling it down.

Not many people think their home toilet sprays all over the room either, but it does. And not to get too yucky or anything here, but any train car has the added possibility of somebody bumping into something (forwards or backwards) or falling on their seat/bed before they have fully re-dressed after using the toilet. I guarantee if you swabbed any Viewliner bedroom, it's going to have e. coli and other bacteria everywhere.

I mean, there are reasons why we don't all put toilets (even vacuum-driven ones) in the middle of our bedrooms at home.

I understand that every type of room on a train in the old days had a toilet. I'm not talking about toilets that are separate within a room, as in the regular bedrooms both today and in the past. I'm just talking about unsheltered toilets. And surely people can understand that standards of hygiene and cleanliness have changed over the years as we've learned about the causes of various illnesses. Remember how people used to talk about "24 hour flu"? Yeah, food poisoning or other bacterial infection. People used to die of fully preventable stuff like staph infections at a far greater rate than they do today. And a lot more people got sick, without knowing why. But we know why now, and a lot of it is simple cleanliness. (My wife's a nurse, so her philosophy has obviously rubbed off on me a little bit.)

I'd still ride in a Viewliner bedroom but I'll always feel a little dirty doing it, and I'd always be really careful about anything I ate in the room. You basically have to treat the whole room as if it's a bathroom.

Pfui. Thats just ridiculous. The whole world is full of germs. Treat the whole world as you would a bathrrom my friend. Sheesh.

 

[Chris J.]

While I'm really not convinced that installing hotel style locks on the sleeping cars is worth the effort, the typical magnetic key cards hotels use probably cost less than $.50 each. That's probably less than the value of the complimentary water bottles Amtrak provides to sleeping car passengers, so if passengers fail to return the key cards, it sort of wouldn't matter.
However, the other clever thing to do would be to make the ticket stub be the key, with a design so that the the key will work if the stub is still attached to the main body of the ticket. Maybe that doesn't work if Amtrak is going to e-ticketing. But otherwise, there could either be a magnetic stripe on a new form of ticket stock (possibly a poor choice if that means that all the tickets for non-sleeper passengers need a wasted magnetic stripe because the printers don't have bins for multiple stocks), or perhaps Amtrak could start printing barcodes on the ticket, and install barcode readers in the cars. You wouldn't necessarily need a barcode reader for every door; you could perhaps have a barcode reader that's shared between four adjacent roomettes, and which barcode is scanned will tell the reader which roomette to unlock.

I bet with the barcode approach, an e-ticket printout could have a barcode of sufficient quality for the barcode reader to recognize it.

I bet the complete cost of installing a barcode lock system like this would work out to less than $1k per compartment. That's basically nothing when you consider that each compartment probably produces well over $10 million of revenue in its lifetime.

Putting bar code scanners on all the roomettes sounds like a maintaiance nightmare, there will be barcodes that don't scan, people will have to fiddle around with their tickets to open the door, or they'll leave the tickets in their room (I always keep mine with me but people will forget), and how long before the scanners break down? I've seen someone try barcode ticketing on a bus - it was a bit of a disaster!

It might cost $1k in hardware to install, but it'll cost a lot more than that to setup the systems behind it to keep it running.

 

[JohnF]

I've only ridden on a Viewliner once, but it was on the same route, and I was actually scared for my life a few times!
I wasn't very impressed with the ride quality. I was jolted awake at least ten times during the night - a couple times almost thrown out of my bunk (I was on the bottom or I would have been in the net).

There are various things that can affect ride quality, though. It's possible that there have been repairs or upgrades made to the track in the time since I rode. It's also possible that our train was trying to make up time whereas yours wasn't; we were very late. So speed might have been a factor. It's also possible that our car just had a worn-out suspension. But there's no question that the old heritage diner on our train had a better ride. I didn't really ride in the Amfleet coaches on our train long enough to do a direct comparison (I just walked through them a couple times).

Our door also rattled something fierce; I had to prop my shoes up against the door to shut it up.

I did like the layout of the room itself. I thought it was comfortable. I think the cars themselves are a little cold and antiseptic, though.

I took the LSL last May from Chicago to Buffalo and I have to agree with Spacecadet here. The ride was extremely rough, slamming over the road crossings would almost toss you out of bed and sleeping for any length of time was impossible except at station stops. I personally thought it was the condition of the CSX track. I had no problem with the viewliner itself, but then mine had just been refurbished.

 

[Ispolkom]

Two things happened. First, Budd went out of business. This should have killed the program- expecting anyone to built a car half as well as Budd could was an act of sheer optimism. Insanity even. Second, Reagan and Clinton cut Amtrak's funding. Amtrak had the ok to build cars, quickly found Morrison-Knudson willing to build them (MK had no experience with this kind of thing- it shouldn't have happened) and got as many cars out of them as money allowed.
It was the wrong course of action. The Viewliner as a whole program made plenty of sense. Budd knew how to build cars, and a set of pure long distance trains designed for the purpose would have been a boon to Amtrak. The Viewliner/Heritage/Amfeet II program simply doesn't work. It means there are 3 types of cars on any long distance single level, and all of them are very very different. It was a mistake, a comedy of errors only a government agency can conduct.

But what was Amtrak supposed to do? It needed single-level sleepers, and for political reasons had to use an American builder. Refurbish heritage sleepers? Replumb their toilets? Stop having sleepers out of Penn Station? If all you have are bad choices, bad results are not surprising.

 

[Walt]

And not to get too yucky or anything here, but any train car has the added possibility of somebody bumping into something (forwards or backwards) or falling on their seat/bed before they have fully re-dressed after using the toilet. I guarantee if you swabbed any Viewliner bedroom, it's going to have e. coli and other bacteria everywhere.

Well, I still remember one of the TV news magazine shows doing a check of rooms at the national chain hotels. They are pretty disgusting too. While they might change the sheets (if the maid isn't upset that day), but they don't clean the floors, walls, bedspreads, drapes, chairs, etc. There is bacteria, fetal mater, urine, etc, all over the place (and I don't mean in the bathrooms)!

As GML says, it is all over. If you think your Amtrak bedroom, or your Hilton suite is clean, think again.