Were Employee Attitudes Better

[Everydaymatters]

My first Amtrak trip was around 1987 or 88 on the SWC from Chicago to LA. At that time there was a crew chief. It was a very pleasant trip. The crew chief hosted Bingo in the diner and there were other games during the trip - such as guess how many passengers, etc.

I personally know someone who was a crew chief. He wrote up his crew for bad attitudes and rudeness.

Now there are so many complaints about crew rudeness and attitude. Could it be that changing rude crew behavior is as simple a fix as just going back to having crew chiefs on the LD trains?

 

[had8ley]

Unfortunately Betty, many of the crew chiefs came from the ranks and overlooked some of their fellow workers behavior. There were also Chiefs that headed right to their room and were the first ones off at the terminating station. One trip I wasn't feeling up to dressing early so I ordered breakfast in the room. I heard the SCA coming down the hall and opened my door. He had a tray and I just assumed it was for me. Wrong; "This here is for the Chief!", I was told.Also, IIRC, they were union just like those they oversaw~not an ideal situation. :blink:

 

[rrdude]

I'd have to echo what Jay wrote. Just because you had an OBS Chief, it didn't necessarily mean a better crew.

I really don't know WHAT the answer is to improving Amtrak's OBS employee's attitudes. I keep referring to the "Disney experience" of hospitality training, and I know hundreds of companies spends millions of dollars annually having Disney train their front-line staff.

I'm all about REWARDING good behavior,...........But man, how to do that in a union environment is beyond me...

 

[MrFSS]

Before I retired a number of years ago I worked for over 40 years in an industry with no union.

The work philosophy was very simple: Do your job - keep your job - don't do your job - lose your job.

 

[Steve4031]

I would agree too Some OBS were good, others just banded together with the crew. In the second scenario, passengers rarely got good service.

 

[Hanno]

Before I retired a number of years ago I worked for over 40 years in an industry with no union.

The work philosophy was very simple: Do your job - keep your job - don't do your job - lose your job.

I agree with this work philosophy! One of the challenges with Amtrak relative to personnel is that it is directly government subsidized and thus the free market is not able to work as it does in other industries (well almost all other industries except the banking industry and the auto industry). It must be government subsidized and I personally think it is money well spent but the outcome is that jobs are not lost due to poor performance. And if you have done any amount of Amtrak travel you will unfortunately see poor performance. You will also see excellent performance. However it is the poor performance that is remembered longer and raises the most concern!

 

[rrdude]

Before I retired a number of years ago I worked for over 40 years in an industry with no union.

The work philosophy was very simple: Do your job - keep your job - don't do your job - lose your job.

I agree with this work philosophy! One of the challenges with Amtrak relative to personnel is that it is directly government subsidized and thus the free market is not able to work as it does in other industries (well almost all other industries except the banking industry and the auto industry). It must be government subsidized and I personally think it is money well spent but the outcome is that jobs are not lost due to poor performance. And if you have done any amount of Amtrak travel you will unfortunately see poor performance. You will also see excellent performance. However it is the poor performance that is remembered longer and raises the most concern!

I don't agree with the thinking that ".......because Amtrak receives Gov't subsidies, they put up with more poor-performing employees than a firm that didn't receive any Gov't subsidies......."

I think it is more of a Top-Down Culture thing, both from management, AND from the unions involved.

If the prez and CEO of Amtrak made "service with a smile" (or something similar) TOP priority, and could "sell it" thru the ranks of middle-management, (who will be there when Boardman leaves, and the NEXT prez leaves, and the NEXT prez leaves, you get the idea) then you might see a real, permanent change.

Same for unions. There are some GREAT union presidents, local presidents, and staffers who DO NOT put up with poor, shoddy, or unethical work by their union members. YES, they may try to re-educate the offending union member first, as that is their job, but in the end, having members who reflect poorly on their union does no one any good in the long term.

Problem is, almost everyone has a "short term" view, vs. "long term" view. That's where competition comes plays a factor. With Amtrak it's the airlines, cars, and buses. With the United States Postal Service, it's email, FedX, and "Big Brown". Problem is, so few employees think, or even care, about the competition.

The sad part is, Amtrak DOESN'T need hundreds of millions of dollars to "fix" the employee problem, it needs commitment from the top down, and middle management.

 

[Hanno]

Before I retired a number of years ago I worked for over 40 years in an industry with no union.

The work philosophy was very simple: Do your job - keep your job - don't do your job - lose your job.

I agree with this work philosophy! One of the challenges with Amtrak relative to personnel is that it is directly government subsidized and thus the free market is not able to work as it does in other industries (well almost all other industries except the banking industry and the auto industry). It must be government subsidized and I personally think it is money well spent but the outcome is that jobs are not lost due to poor performance. And if you have done any amount of Amtrak travel you will unfortunately see poor performance. You will also see excellent performance. However it is the poor performance that is remembered longer and raises the most concern!

I don't agree with the thinking that ".......because Amtrak receives Gov't subsidies, they put up with more poor-performing employees than a firm that didn't receive any Gov't subsidies......."

I think it is more of a Top-Down Culture thing, both from management, AND from the unions involved.

If the prez and CEO of Amtrak made "service with a smile" (or something similar) TOP priority, and could "sell it" thru the ranks of middle-management, (who will be there when Boardman leaves, and the NEXT prez leaves, and the NEXT prez leaves, you get the idea) then you might see a real, permanent change.

Same for unions. There are some GREAT union presidents, local presidents, and staffers who DO NOT put up with poor, shoddy, or unethical work by their union members. YES, they may try to re-educate the offending union member first, as that is their job, but in the end, having members who reflect poorly on their union does no one any good in the long term.

Problem is, almost everyone has a "short term" view, vs. "long term" view. That's where competition comes plays a factor. With Amtrak it's the airlines, cars, and buses. With the United States Postal Service, it's email, FedX, and "Big Brown". Problem is, so few employees think, or even care, about the competition.

The sad part is, Amtrak DOESN'T need hundreds of millions of dollars to "fix" the employee problem, it needs commitment from the top down, and middle management.

You make an excellent point and I appreciate your input. I totally agree with the need for committment to come from the top and beleive if it was done ardently it would trump my concerns about government subsidies. I guess the point I was trying to make is that there needs to be consequences for poor performance!

 

[rrdude]

There are consequences for poor behavior, but the bar is so high, er, I guess "low" would be a better description, the bar is so low, that the poor performing employees know that they can inch right up to the bar, (i.e. give sub-par or indifferent service) and never really have anything to worry about.

That's one of the reasons I think that AU should start an "Amtrak Employee of the Year" award. It's independent of Amtrak, it may be arbitrary, but given time, I think the prestige could grow.

Even if Amtrak does offer their own version, nothing prevents outside organizations from recognizing independently.

There are many, many examples of this in the real world.

 

[Hanno]

There are consequences for poor behavior, but the bar is so high, er, I guess "low" would be a better description, the bar is so low, that the poor performing employees know that they can inch right up to the bar, (i.e. give sub-par or indifferent service) and never really have anything to worry about.

That's one of the reasons I think that AU should start an "Amtrak Employee of the Year" award. It's independent of Amtrak, it may be arbitrary, but given time, I think the prestige could grow.

Even if Amtrak does offer their own version, nothing prevents outside organizations from recognizing independently.

There are many, many examples of this in the real world.

Excellent idea. How do we go about making such an "Amtrak Employee of the Year Award"?

 

[haolerider]

There are consequences for poor behavior, but the bar is so high, er, I guess "low" would be a better description, the bar is so low, that the poor performing employees know that they can inch right up to the bar, (i.e. give sub-par or indifferent service) and never really have anything to worry about.

That's one of the reasons I think that AU should start an "Amtrak Employee of the Year" award. It's independent of Amtrak, it may be arbitrary, but given time, I think the prestige could grow.

Even if Amtrak does offer their own version, nothing prevents outside organizations from recognizing independently.

There are many, many examples of this in the real world.

Excellent idea. How do we go about making such an "Amtrak Employee of the Year Award"?

The independent Amtrak Advisory Board routinely recognizes outstanding employee customer service and the "good" Amtrak employees recognize the award as a true honor. Unfortunately, there are still be "bad" Amtrak employees who could care less about awards and recognition.

I do agree, however, that the emphasis needs to come from the top down - and from the bottom up as well!

Many people talk about the Disney experience, but it is really a totaly different environment than Amtrak. The employees are all in one place- albiet a large place - and their management is on the property constantly. Amtrak employees are all over the country servicing 500 individual cities/stops and management is not able to be present on every train, on every route, on every day. It is a tough situation and as noted in a previous post, the former Chiefs program was disbanded, based on inconsistent supervision from the Chiefs who were, in fact, union employees and in many cases long time friends of the employees they were supposed to supervise, manage and discipline. It simply did not work!

 

[Pastor Dave]

I'd have to echo what Jay wrote. Just because you had an OBS Chief, it didn't necessarily mean a better crew.

I really don't know WHAT the answer is to improving Amtrak's OBS employee's attitudes. I keep referring to the "Disney experience" of hospitality training, and I know hundreds of companies spends millions of dollars annually having Disney train their front-line staff.

I'm all about REWARDING good behavior,...........But man, how to do that in a union environment is beyond me...

I've done a couple of Disney Institute seminars and they've been very helpful. But, I've also spent most of my working life as a "lone ranger," and have not had to pass along their model to multiple staff.

It's kind of sad, but many organizations (including Amtrak) are often judged by their weakest links. Most OBS do their job and do it well, but the few bad apples end up categotizing everyone,

 

[Everydaymatters]

I'd have to echo what Jay wrote. Just because you had an OBS Chief, it didn't necessarily mean a better crew.

I really don't know WHAT the answer is to improving Amtrak's OBS employee's attitudes. I keep referring to the "Disney experience" of hospitality training, and I know hundreds of companies spends millions of dollars annually having Disney train their front-line staff.

I'm all about REWARDING good behavior,...........But man, how to do that in a union environment is beyond me...

Jerry, I used something I noticed from a trip to Disneyland. In a group I once belonged to, speakers before me tried to get the group to move closer to the podium without success. I did what I had seen at Disneyland and it worked! Everyone moved closer! If Amtrak can't afford training by Disney, they should send some of their employees to Disneyland for an observational experience! I'm sure the employees would like that. It might even give them a better attitude.

 

[Pastor Dave]

I'd have to echo what Jay wrote. Just because you had an OBS Chief, it didn't necessarily mean a better crew.

I really don't know WHAT the answer is to improving Amtrak's OBS employee's attitudes. I keep referring to the "Disney experience" of hospitality training, and I know hundreds of companies spends millions of dollars annually having Disney train their front-line staff.

I'm all about REWARDING good behavior,...........But man, how to do that in a union environment is beyond me...

Jerry, I used something I noticed from a trip to Disneyland. In a group I once belonged to, speakers before me tried to get the group to move closer to the podium without success. I did what I had seen at Disneyland and it worked! Everyone moved closer! If Amtrak can't afford training by Disney, they should send some of their employees to Disneyland for an observational experience! I'm sure the employees would like that. It might even give them a better attitude.

Greetings All!

The Disney Institute is not cheap by any means (I think I paid over $3000 for my last experience), but for key Amtrak employees it would be worth the cost. Some Amtrak folks tend to forget that besides being in the human transportation business that they are in the hospitality business. Being hospitable doesn't cost anything and basically is nothing more than practicing Luke 6:31 - "Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Now, in defense of OBS, there are some very trying passengers who have to challenge the last ounce of patience of even the greatest saint. Those of us who travel frequently by Amtrak have come to accept this. But I feel sorry for the first-time traveller whose experience is tainted by a staff person having a bad day.

I did send a letter to Amtrak a few years back suggesting that they allow us as the travelling public to spend time shadowing OBS to gain a better understanding of what they have to put up with. I am still waiting for a response.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The Disney Institute is not cheap by any means (I think I paid over $3000 for my last experience), but for key Amtrak employees it would be worth the cost.

I don't expect Disney service on Amtrak. I only expect basic courtesy and manners. This isn't about good people having a random bad day, this is about the folks who couldn't care less about their passengers and who have no business being in a front line job. For them the $3,000 would be a complete waste of money. But if they had to sit through repeated trips to a $30 manners class they might finally get the message and either improve to avoid another visit or simply leave. Either way I'm happy.

I feel sorry for the first-time traveller whose experience is tainted by a staff person having a bad day.

Based on what I've seen this is a pretty big problem for Amtrak, and one that helps explain why American voters don't see much benefit to keeping Amtrak around.

I did send a letter to Amtrak a few years back suggesting that they allow us as the travelling public to spend time shadowing OBS to gain a better understanding of what they have to put up with. I am still waiting for a response.

I'm not sure what more there is to see besides sleeping and restroom breaks or maybe a smoke break in the baggage car. I think we can already see most of what the OBS actually do.

 

[AlanB]

I feel sorry for the first-time traveller whose experience is tainted by a staff person having a bad day.

Based on what I've seen this is a pretty big problem for Amtrak, and one that helps explain why American voters don't see much benefit to keeping Amtrak around.

Sorry, but most American voters have never even set foot on an Amtrak train to learn if the service is good, bad, or indifferent.

Most Americans that oppose Amtrak do so simply because they can’t see how the train is an advantage to them.

 

[had8ley]

I'd have to echo what Jay wrote. Just because you had an OBS Chief, it didn't necessarily mean a better crew.

I really don't know WHAT the answer is to improving Amtrak's OBS employee's attitudes. I keep referring to the "Disney experience" of hospitality training, and I know hundreds of companies spends millions of dollars annually having Disney train their front-line staff.

I'm all about REWARDING good behavior,...........But man, how to do that in a union environment is beyond me...

It's kind of sad, but many organizations (including Amtrak) are often judged by their weakest links. Most OBS do their job and do it well, but the few bad apples end up categotizing everyone,

There is a notable exception when it comes to Amtrak~ you are sometimes stuck for 2 or 3 days with that weakest link on an LD train, like it or not, and from the posts on this site it seems we have no shortage of weak links!I often wonder if these links are as miserable themselves as they can make the pax? :angry:

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I feel sorry for the first-time traveller whose experience is tainted by a staff person having a bad day.

Based on what I've seen this is a pretty big problem for Amtrak, and one that helps explain why American voters don't see much benefit to keeping Amtrak around.

Sorry, but most American voters have never even set foot on an Amtrak train to learn if the service is good, bad, or indifferent.

Most Americans that oppose Amtrak do so simply because they can’t see how the train is an advantage to them.

Let's take a deeper look at that though. Let's say that most American voters have probably never set foot on an Amtrak train. Fair enough, I'll grant you that. But why haven't they? Some simply don't have access to any trains that depart and arrive where they're going. There's not much we can do about that with our current system. Some balk at the prices that are routinely undercut by cars, trucks, buses and even flights. I doubt there is much we can do about that either, at least not directly. Some can find a train that goes where they're going but the schedule doesn't work with them. There's not likely to be much money to buy more hardware to increase schedules or to negotiate any additional service with the freight railroads. And finally some folks are simply put off by the indifferent service found on board.

Out of the relatively few things that Amtrak can actually change, basic service levels sound like the best possible opportunity for low-cost improvement. It's not just those who have ridden who know about Amtrak's flaky service issues, it's also known by everyone they talk to about it and who those people talk to. In an era where Amtrak is up against the wall, even word of mouth is working against them. What should be one of the few bright spots in Amtrak's reputation, one of the few areas they have direct control over, is being squandered into yet another neutral/negative quality. And that's why I say it helps explain why American voters don't hold Amtrak in high regard. Even when Amtrak has the opportunity to improve its reputation it simply chooses not to. Or at least that's how it seems to me.

Here on AU we routinely see people who were willing to abandon their comfort zone and pay through the nose for a quirky and unreliable schedule on a skeletal network only to end up annoyed and frustrated with the indifferent staff. Too many regulars seem content to simply deflate new riders' expectations with snarky replies instead of welcoming their concerns and looking for ways to actually make Amtrak better than it is today. Maybe even something that's good enough for voters who don't ride it to be proud of.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Or we are simply realists.

 

[Pastor Dave]

The Disney Institute is not cheap by any means (I think I paid over $3000 for my last experience), but for key Amtrak employees it would be worth the cost.

I don't expect Disney service on Amtrak. I only expect basic courtesy and manners. This isn't about good people having a random bad day, this is about the folks who couldn't care less about their passengers and who have no business being in a front line job. For them the $3,000 would be a complete waste of money. But if they had to sit through repeated trips to a $30 manners class they might finally get the message and either improve to avoid another visit or simply leave. Either way I'm happy.

I feel sorry for the first-time traveller whose experience is tainted by a staff person having a bad day.

Based on what I've seen this is a pretty big problem for Amtrak, and one that helps explain why American voters don't see much benefit to keeping Amtrak around.

I did send a letter to Amtrak a few years back suggesting that they allow us as the travelling public to spend time shadowing OBS to gain a better understanding of what they have to put up with. I am still waiting for a response.

I'm not sure what more there is to see besides sleeping and restroom breaks or maybe a smoke break in the baggage car. I think we can already see most of what the OBS actually do.

A very good point about courtesy. It costs nothing to extend and is valued immensely. Maybe it's the long hours or just dis-satisfaction with the job, but rudeness is inexcusable. Is the problem made worse by the union? I don't know. I'm in sort of a union. The pay and benefits aren't real great but the ultimate retirement plan is "out of this world...."

 

[howard]

i feel this if a crew member wants to treat me with rudeness then i can treat them the same way and if a crew member is nice and i should treat him with respect .

 

[Trainmans daughter]

Howard, if a crew member treats me with rudeness, I respond with friendliness for several reasons.

*Maybe they are having a rough time and my kindness will do them good.

*Maybe they will see the contrast between their attitude and mine and will change.

*Maybe they will continue to be rude, but I won't stoop to their level.

*Being rude makes me feel crummy, and I don't want to feel crummy....especially on a train!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Good post!

You never know WHY a person is rude.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Just cause your having family problems personal problems marriage problems etc YOU DON'T TAKE YOUR PROBLEMS OUT ON THE CUSTOMERS! it's not our fault your life sucks.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

In an ideal world, yes. In the real world when you're in a foul mood, you're just in a foul mood.