What Routes Would You Add?

[Evan]

This topic has been covered before, but I'm sure there are some new ideas out there. What routes do you think should be added to the system that would be instant successes given decent speed and frequency? IMO, the Amtrak system covers most of all the major markets, but just needs more frequencies on current routes. However, to me, there are 3 blatant holes in Amtrak's route structure-

1. LA-Las Vegas

One of the busiest air markets in the country. Needs at least 2 roundtrips a day.

2. Dallas-Houston

The 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, 250 miles apart. Also a major air market. Needs at least 2 rountrips a day.

3. Chicago-Atlanta-Florida

This is the 3rd largest long-distance market in the country, behind only Chicago-Northeast and Northeast-Florida. There needs to be at least 1 roundtrip per day.

The tracks along all these corridors are in excellent shape, just crowded with freights. Ideally, some of the high-speed rail money should be directed at these corridors for additional capacity.

What are yours?

1.a. SLC-LA: Desert Wind

b. LA-LV: Desert Flyer (commuter train)

2. SLC-Seattle: Pioneer

3. StL-Portland: Oregon trail

4. Chicago-Miami: Floridian

5. Florida-New Orleans: Gulf Coast Flyer

 

[Evan]

This topic has been covered before, but I'm sure there are some new ideas out there. What routes do you think should be added to the system that would be instant successes given decent speed and frequency? IMO, the Amtrak system covers most of all the major markets, but just needs more frequencies on current routes. However, to me, there are 3 blatant holes in Amtrak's route structure-

1. LA-Las Vegas

One of the busiest air markets in the country. Needs at least 2 roundtrips a day.

2. Dallas-Houston

The 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, 250 miles apart. Also a major air market. Needs at least 2 rountrips a day.

3. Chicago-Atlanta-Florida

This is the 3rd largest long-distance market in the country, behind only Chicago-Northeast and Northeast-Florida. There needs to be at least 1 roundtrip per day.

The tracks along all these corridors are in excellent shape, just crowded with freights. Ideally, some of the high-speed rail money should be directed at these corridors for additional capacity.

What are yours?

1.a. SLC-LA: Desert Wind

b. LA-LV: Desert Flyer (commuter train)

2. SLC-Seattle: Pioneer

3. StL-Portland: Oregon trail

4. Chicago-Miami: Floridian

5. Florida-New Orleans: Gulf Coast Flyer

 

[SP&S]

PDX to SLC as The City of Portland or Portland Rose but not as The Pioneer; with possible thru car(s) to SEA

LAX to SLC via ANA and Las Vegas as The Jindall Express

These combine in SLC continue to CHI as The Overland Zephyr, not as part of the CZ

SEA and PDX to CHI The North Coast Hiawatha

One can dream.

 

[nightrider]

All good suggestions....but you guys left out the most obviously missing link. One that justs screams for service. A major black hole on the Amtrak route map. Wait for it........

The Butte Special!!! :giggle:

 

[eagle628]

This topic has been covered before, but I'm sure there are some new ideas out there. What routes do you think should be added to the system that would be instant successes given decent speed and frequency? IMO, the Amtrak system covers most of all the major markets, but just needs more frequencies on current routes. However, to me, there are 3 blatant holes in Amtrak's route structure-

1. LA-Las Vegas

One of the busiest air markets in the country. Needs at least 2 roundtrips a day.

2. Dallas-Houston

The 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, 250 miles apart. Also a major air market. Needs at least 2 rountrips a day.

3. Chicago-Atlanta-Florida

This is the 3rd largest long-distance market in the country, behind only Chicago-Northeast and Northeast-Florida. There needs to be at least 1 roundtrip per day.

The tracks along all these corridors are in excellent shape, just crowded with freights. Ideally, some of the high-speed rail money should be directed at these corridors for additional capacity.

What are yours?

1.a. SLC-LA: Desert Wind

b. LA-LV: Desert Flyer (commuter train)

2. SLC-Seattle: Pioneer

3. StL-Portland: Oregon trail

4. Chicago-Miami: Floridian

5. Florida-New Orleans: Gulf Coast Flyer

All of those make sense but St. Louis-Portland, I think. I can't imagine there's enough people along that route to make it worth it; it could serve as another River Runner frequency, but there's practically no one between Kansas City and Denver, and then no one between Denver and Portland, other than maybe Boise. I don't think there'd be a ton of people traveling from St.Louis west by train, certainly not as many as come from Chicago. Two trains a day along the UP from Denver to Portland seems excessive for the population. I could see a St. Louis-Denver train, with either through cars or a cross-platform transfer to the Portland train working, but not an entire St. Louis-Portland run. I think a better investment of that money would be to just upgrade and add frequencies to the Lincoln Service route, and route midwest long-distance passengers through Chicago, instead of having multiple long-distance trains originating in multiple locations. Seems a better use of money and equipment

 

[Grandpa D]

This topic has been covered before, but I'm sure there are some new ideas out there. ...

2. Dallas-Houston

The 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, 250 miles apart. Also a major air market. Needs at least 2 rountrips a day.

Yes! We need that again. There used to be a "split" of the Texas Eagle at Dallas with a sleeper and two coaches going to HOS and the rest to SAS plus the reverse on the northbound run; similar to the Portland/Seattle split of the EB.

One other I'd add to the list is Phoenix to Los Angeles. And really Phoenix, not Maricopa 40 miles away. It should be at least daily and at reasonable hours, not the middle of the night.

We can dream. And reminisce.

 

[henryj]

This topic has been covered before, but I'm sure there are some new ideas out there. ...

2. Dallas-Houston

The 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, 250 miles apart. Also a major air market. Needs at least 2 rountrips a day.

Yes! We need that again. There used to be a "split" of the Texas Eagle at Dallas with a sleeper and two coaches going to HOS and the rest to SAS plus the reverse on the northbound run; similar to the Portland/Seattle split of the EB.

We can dream. And reminisce.

And DFW to Denver, Colorado being the top vacation spot for Texans.

 

[George Harris]

2. Dallas-Houston

The 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, 250 miles apart. Also a major air market. Needs at least 2 rountrips a day.

Yes! We need that again.

Unfortunately the Texas Eagle connection was S-L-O-O-O-W by the schedule and, the one time I saw it, at College Station, running late on that. If it had managed a schedule anywhere close to driving time, and acutally kept it, it probably would have developed some decent ridership.

 

[Hamhock]

I'd like to see a daily Washington DC - Portland, Maine overnight train (including sleeper and diner), circumventing Boston by way of Worcester. And during the summer months, the train runs through to Rockland for ferry connection to Bar Harbor.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

And DFW to Denver, Colorado being the top vacation spot for Texans.

Really? I probably would have picked Florida. I do recall seeing "TEXAN GO HOME" bumper stickers in Colorado though, so I guess we're well known in those parts as well.

 

[Grandpa D]

Unfortunately the Texas Eagle connection was S-L-O-O-O-W by the schedule and, the one time I saw it, at College Station, running late on that. If it had managed a schedule anywhere close to driving time, and acutally kept it, it probably would have developed some decent ridership.

The same can be said for today's Texas Eagle SAS-DAL segment. It's over 8 hours! I could drive it in less than half that time.

 

[guest]

Bring back the sleepers on 66/67 for the entire run NYP-BOS, with a set-out sleeper for NYP.

 

[guest]

I would extend the Lynchburg,VA Regional to Roanoke/Knoxville/Nashville/Memphis.

Cardinal daily split at Cincinatti to Louisville/Evansville/St. Louis/Kansas City.

 

[henryj]

And DFW to Denver, Colorado being the top vacation spot for Texans.

Really? I probably would have picked Florida. I do recall seeing "TEXAN GO HOME" bumper stickers in Colorado though, so I guess we're well known in those parts as well.

Yep the 'greenies' want our money but not us. It matters little as it's still the #1 destination. Florida is #2. But then Amtrak has killed that route as well. It was also really sloooooow.

The last Eagle connection via the old T&NO route was around 6 hours. When the SP ran it it was 4 1/2. Progress? I still think the B-RI joint line would be a better choice for Houston to DFW as it's shorter and faster.

 

[jeff_in_phx]

Some other suggestions:

Houston - Dallas

Los Angeles - Las Vegas

Los Angeles - Bakersfield

Oklahoma City - Kansas City

Restoration of SWC service to Phoenix

Oops. I made an error. It's the Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle that almost serves Phoenix, not the Chief.

I agree 100%. I would also suggest:

LA - Phoenix (in addition to restoring the SL/TE)

Tucson - Phoenix - Flagstaff

Nogales - Tucson

Atlanta - Macon - Florida

Jacksonville - Daytona Beach - Melbourne

 

[George Harris]

And DFW to Denver, Colorado being the top vacation spot for Texans.

Really? I probably would have picked Florida. I do recall seeing "TEXAN GO HOME" bumper stickers in Colorado though, so I guess we're well known in those parts as well.

Yep the 'greenies' want our money but not us. It matters little as it's still the #1 destination. Florida is #2. But then Amtrak has killed that route as well. It was also really sloooooow.

The last Eagle connection via the old T&NO route was around 6 hours. When the SP ran it it was 4 1/2. Progress? I still think the B-RI joint line would be a better choice for Houston to DFW as it's shorter and faster.

The B-RI line needs major work. Speed limit is 40 mph. Probably a major rail relay, plus a lot of tie replacement. Plus, it misses College Station, which should be a major source of passengers if the speed gets at all reasonable.

The ex SP route probably also need quite a bit of work to bring it up to a 79 mph railroad throughout. Have no idea what the traffic shifts are since the UP absorption of almost everybody in Texas, which could play a lot into what needs to be done in the wasy of extra sidings and second track segments.

There are several points aloong the Ft. Worth to San Antonio that could be speeded up without major outlays of cash, but not for free. Anybody out there with an open checkbook?

Colorado: Apparently they are not thrilled with the tourist clutter from more places than Texas. There is or was a bumper sticker seen in the past that said, "Don't Californicate Colorado"

 

[George Harris]

I would extend the Lynchburg,VA Regional to Roanoke/Knoxville/Nashville/Memphis.

Problem here is lack of track between Knoxville and Nashville. When it existed, in the form of Southern between Knoxville and Harriman and Tennessee Central between Harriman and Nashville, the run time was about 8 hours for 200 miles. I40 is about 175 miles and easily driven in uder 3 hours. The Nashville to Memphis line on whcih passenger trains operated, through Jackson TN, is also no more west of Bruceton. When it was through, 5h15m was the best it ever got. 235 miles, again, I40 is shorter, and even Greyhound does it in 4 hours.

For all teh route from Roanoke to at least Chattanooga you are stuck with the inherent issue in Appalachia of a low speed alignment due to curves.

 

[henryj]

And DFW to Denver, Colorado being the top vacation spot for Texans.

Really? I probably would have picked Florida. I do recall seeing "TEXAN GO HOME" bumper stickers in Colorado though, so I guess we're well known in those parts as well.

Yep the 'greenies' want our money but not us. It matters little as it's still the #1 destination. Florida is #2. But then Amtrak has killed that route as well. It was also really sloooooow.

The last Eagle connection via the old T&NO route was around 6 hours. When the SP ran it it was 4 1/2. Progress? I still think the B-RI joint line would be a better choice for Houston to DFW as it's shorter and faster.

The B-RI line needs major work. Speed limit is 40 mph. Probably a major rail relay, plus a lot of tie replacement. Plus, it misses College Station, which should be a major source of passengers if the speed gets at all reasonable.

The ex SP route probably also need quite a bit of work to bring it up to a 79 mph railroad throughout. Have no idea what the traffic shifts are since the UP absorption of almost everybody in Texas, which could play a lot into what needs to be done in the wasy of extra sidings and second track segments.

There are several points aloong the Ft. Worth to San Antonio that could be speeded up without major outlays of cash, but not for free. Anybody out there with an open checkbook?

Colorado: Apparently they are not thrilled with the tourist clutter from more places than Texas. There is or was a bumper sticker seen in the past that said, "Don't Californicate Colorado"

Actually I think the B-RI is in pretty good shape. It is still ABS territory and the track looked perfect when I drove by it. Even on their passenger occupied track in Texas the bnsf seems to limit freights to 55mph so I don't put any special significance to the 40mph limit. The line sees a lot of grain trains. This route had a four hour timing from Houston to Dallas from the late 1930's until discontinuance of passenger service in the mid 1960's. Of course it would take plenty of 'money' to get anything up and running as there has been no significant service for over 45 years. Even on routes Amtrak uses the schedules make no sense. For instance between San Antonio and Houston, only 200 miles, Amtrak cards the Sunset at 5 hours. It often makes it in four. Speed limits are mostly 70-79 on the route. Ft Worth to San Antonio there are some major bottle necks but the Eagle makes pretty good time in spite of those.

The Californicate sign has more significance than just tourists as thousands of Californians have flocked to Colorado to escape the high taxes and such and have driven up land prices and taxed services. The whole front range from pretty much the Wyoming border to Pueblo is filling up and I25 is a mess. They have also bought up much of the property around Durango and now complain constantly about the engine smoke from the Durango and Silverton RR. It's like the invasion of the nimby's. For most of us this is all just fantasy land anyway as nothing is going to change in our lifetime barring some super catastrophic event.