What Routes Would You Add?

Advertise with us
Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Ben

Guest
This topic has been covered before, but I'm sure there are some new ideas out there. What routes do you think should be added to the system that would be instant successes given decent speed and frequency? IMO, the Amtrak system covers most of all the major markets, but just needs more frequencies on current routes. However, to me, there are 3 blatant holes in Amtrak's route structure-

1. LA-Las Vegas

One of the busiest air markets in the country. Needs at least 2 roundtrips a day.

2. Dallas-Houston

The 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, 250 miles apart. Also a major air market. Needs at least 2 rountrips a day.

3. Chicago-Atlanta-Florida

This is the 3rd largest long-distance market in the country, behind only Chicago-Northeast and Northeast-Florida. There needs to be at least 1 roundtrip per day.

The tracks along all these corridors are in excellent shape, just crowded with freights. Ideally, some of the high-speed rail money should be directed at these corridors for additional capacity.

What are yours?
 
I'm a photographer - and every year there is a rather big convention in Las Vegas. I have never actually attended, but certainly would have gone a few times - if there was a train. In fact - several photographer friends I know fly out there every year, and they love the convention, great workshops, free software, share ideas with other photographers, hang out and talk shop, and they also have a very large trade show... I don't mind flying, but it is just so hard for me to take any time off - especially for a "non revenue" event like this - even if it is a "business write off". But if I could take a train to Las Vegas - in a Roomette, with a Sightseer Lounge, etc... and also pay for it with "pre-tax" business dollars (as a legitimate business expense), I would jump at the chance. Might even go every year?

This year we are sending an employee - who happens to be my daughter too. She is looking forward to the trip. It;'s a little like a bonus for her, but I know she will thrive on the workshops.

Anyway, if I could somehow take a train - I would find the time to take off. As it is - my son and I are doing a "vacation" on Amtrak this December - for 8 days. Since I'm doing that - I don't want to take another "non-revenue" week in Feb, just to fly to Vegas. I would rather spend my down time on a train - and I get so few chances to ever take time off. So yes, they really should have rail service to Las Vegas. I know I would have been there by now...

I think that the bus connection from the SW Chief is in the middle of the night. No way I would attempt that. And I did actually consider taking the Cardinal/SW Chief to LA - and then catch a $60 one way flight from LAX to Las Vegas. But I realized that I can fly to Las Vegas from Richmond, VA for $155 each way, so how can you justify the $60 flight - in addition to the rather high rail fare for a transcontinental train (with a Roomette). Just not logical from a business point of view.. Either fly - or just take the train. But there is no train that goes to Las Vegas.
 
I would add a route directly from Chez Traveler East to Chez Traveler West!
mosking.gif


Seriously, LA to Las Vegas should be done ASAP! When I took the Desert Wind, it was almost a full train every time - and most got on or off in Vegas! Plus, it would keep many cars off the parking lot - aka I-15!
wacko.gif
 
All these routes are pretty nice. I am especially interested in the CHI-ATL-MIA route :rolleyes: .
 
Last I read private investors were working on restoring passenger service from LA to LAS Vegas but this route should be a top prority.

I say the second priority should be to let the Sunset Limited once again continue running East on the NOL to Florida leg. The track is all there in good shape and Amtrak will not need to add any new equipment.

Certainly Chicago to Florida should be considered but the original Floridian route took a more direct path through Louisville, Nashville, Birmingham, South Georgia, Jacksonville and then South. For a time the midwest AutoTrain coupled onto the Floridian which raises questions as to whether a LD route or new AutoTrain or a combo train route would be better.

I would also like to see the Broadway Limited return to service so that passengers from PHL could appreciate direct service to CHI.

However, lets realize that this is all talk. There is no equipment or a budget to consider any of this right now.
 
Ben said:
This topic has been covered before, but I'm sure there are some new ideas out there. What routes do you think should be added to the system that would be instant successes given decent speed and frequency? IMO, the Amtrak system covers most of all the major markets, but just needs more frequencies on current routes. However, to me, there are 3 blatant holes in Amtrak's route structure-

1. LA-Las Vegas

One of the busiest air markets in the country. Needs at least 2 roundtrips a day.

2. Dallas-Houston

The 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, 250 miles apart. Also a major air market. Needs at least 2 rountrips a day.

3. Chicago-Atlanta-Florida

This is the 3rd largest long-distance market in the country, behind only Chicago-Northeast and Northeast-Florida. There needs to be at least 1 roundtrip per day.

The tracks along all these corridors are in excellent shape, just crowded with freights. Ideally, some of the high-speed rail money should be directed at these corridors for additional capacity.

What are yours?
Click to expand...
Excellent suggestions. High density, no overnight for the first two. Biggest need for a long distance train for the third.
 
Vegas Vegas Vegas Vegas Vegas! I went out for a friend's wedding in October and, while the time spent there was pleasant, the trip to/from was awful. I even blogged (read: whined) about it:

Part 1: Total lack of alternatives

Part 2: The I-15 experience

Of course, I have a vivid childhood memory of waiting for my mom to come home from Vegas on the Desert Wind. The train was ~2hrs late leaving Vegas, and then Amtrak pulled their locomotive off their train and moved it to haul (I believe) an even-later Sunset that broke down in Arizona. They had to wait in the desert for 6 hours while another engine was dispatched to haul them. They finally got in to VRV 11 hours late.
 
NorthCoastHiawatha said:
OK I'll bite, I maintain a list of five routes.

1. Northcoast Haiwatha

2. Pioneer

3. Desert Wind

4. Lone Star

5. Floridian
Click to expand...
Missing is the Texas Zephyr route DFW to Denver via Amarillo. Texas most important destination is Colorado. Cool mountains in the summer and skiing in the winter. Connects with the Pioneer for service to the Pacific Northwest.

To bring back the Lone Star, just extend the Hearland flyer south to Houston and north to Kansas City to connect with the SWC.
 
Thanks Ben for starting this topic. I am sure we all have ideas and even more reasons why other peoples ideas are bad. ;)

Personally I would divide this up into a few categories

Long Distance

1. NCH

2. "Caprock Limited" running from SAS-FTW-Lubbock-Amarillo-DEN

3. Pioneer/Dessert Wind -I don't think they would work well separately but maybe as a straight train from SEA-LAX it must also be timed to "add" another cascade train.

4. Chicago-Florida service... Maybe...

Short Distance/State

1. Lax-vegas

2. HOS-Dal -though I dont know if the direct or college station line is better (much less if Texas will front the costs)

3. Gulf wind- (Basically SL East as a separate train)

4. I can think up a dozen other state type trains and extensions of others :ph34r: but these really add to the system.

Overnight trains- I think Amtrak should focus on a third market namely trains that run only over night. The criteria would be start and end cities must be over 1 million (preferably two at least in the greater area) and they are between 350-850 miles apart.

Candidates I would suggest would be.

1. NYP- TWO

2.NYP- MTR

3. LAX-SFC

4. Maybe HOS-NOL

I know many people might take issue with some of these ideas, :unsure: personally though I dont mind :cool:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hanno said:
The Broadway Limited!
Click to expand...
I've never been to Las Vegas and have no immediate need to go there. That being said, I have to think that a Los Angeles to Las Vegas run would be a good idea. For me personally, I'd like to see the Broadway Limited restored. I would be happy to commit up to $100 :eek:hboy: to assist with this (as long as it could be a pledge payable over 10 years....)
 
Anything to do with Atlanta. It has the worlds busiest airport and only one train each direction each day.
 
Gratt said:
Short Distance/State
3. Gulf wind- (Basically SL East as a separate train)
Click to expand...
I personally would LOVE a train heading from Florida to New Orleans ~ without having to go Tampa ~ Raleigh ~ Charlotte ~ New Orleans! The Charlotte connection is a BAD one! The Carolinian arrives from Raleigh at 8:14pm and the Crescent departs Charlotte for New Orleans at 2:45am! :eek: :wacko:
I understand why this route is no longer available, but I'm sure it would get a good number of passengers if it was reinstated.
 
TransitGeek said:
Vegas Vegas Vegas Vegas Vegas! I went out for a friend's wedding in October and, while the time spent there was pleasant, the trip to/from was awful. I even blogged (read: whined) about it:

Part 1: Total lack of alternatives

Part 2: The I-15 experience
Click to expand...
Aloha

Long ago I used the Desert Wind as part of my trip to Vegas from Honolulu for a convention. An incredible trip. Well circumstances have relocated me to Vegas. Having the Desert Wind back would be so nice, since mt daughter and Grandaughter lives near Fullerton.

You did not say what day you left but Friday to Vegas and Sunday back are the worst drive days. When I visited the kids for Thanksgiving Wed and Saturday was at speed but the road was full. Going the opposite way was a parking lot.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gratt said:
Thanks Ben for starting this topic. I am sure we all have ideas and even more reasons why other peoples ideas are bad. ;)

Personally I would divide this up into a few categories

Long Distance

2. "Caprock Limited" running from SAS-FTW-Lubbock-Amarillo-DEN

Short Distance/State

12. HOS-Dal -though I dont know if the direct or college station line is better (much less if Texas will front the costs)

I know many people might take issue with some of these ideas, :unsure: personally though I dont mind :cool:
Click to expand...
Gratt, you mention the Caprock Express or whatever they call it. I have heard that mentioned before and it is even discussed in detail on the TXARP web site.

http://0048534.netsolhost.com/caprock_express.htm

Recently it has made it into the 'Texas Rail Plan'.

http://www.txdot.gov/public_involvement/rail_plan/trp.htm

I just wonder who is pushing this so called plan? It must be someone with money and influence from Lubbock. As far as I can see it's been DOA since it was first proposed way back in 2001. It's a non starter, a boondoggle, a looser to use a few terms. Why does it keep coming back up?

Sure the route is just about 50 miles longer than the usual BNSF route through Wichita Falls and Amarillo over Trinchera Pass, but the track is just almost derilict over much of it and unsignalled, and the BNSF has now downgraded the La Junta track also. The only good track is from Fort Worth to Sweetwater on the old T&P, now UP. From Pueblo it has to go up the front range just like the Texas Zephyr route dodging all those coal trains so what is the advantage? It would take hours longer and require more sets of equipment and more crews and I would question whether they would even allow a passenger train on some of that track. It would also cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make the track even usable. By contrast the BNSF route is first class, signaled, CTC, etc. all the way to Pueblo. Sure it's busy but that's why the track is first class track. I am afraid I just don't get it. I think proposals like this boongoggle is one of the main reasons why passenger rail in Texas is so slow to make any headway. You have to first kill all these ridiculous proposals that keep coming up every time rail is mentioned around here. Meanwhile we have no trains between DFW and Houston, the two biggest population centers in the state. Houston, our largest city has one train three times a week. If you look at the Texas Rail Plan they want to spend 4.5 million studying the Caprock Express route. WHAT????????????

These people are just nuts. Texas is now around 20 billion in the hole on next years budget. They are not going to spend a penny on rail period. They are cutting expenditures on schools and medicaid. Who is going to budget something for rail in that kind of atmoshpere.
 
I thought of another route that could be added Chicago-Milwaukee-Green Bay-maybe upper Michigan.

I seem to remember reading somewhere the state of Wisconsin was studying such an option.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GG-1 said:
Aloha

Long ago I used the Desert Wind as part of my trip to Vegas from Honolulu for a convention. An incredible trip. Well circumstances have relocated me to Vegas. Having the Desert Wind back would be so nice, since mt daughter and Grandaughter lives near Fullerton.

You did not say what day you left but Friday to Vegas and Sunday back are the worst drive days. When I visited the kids for Thanksgiving Wed and Saturday was at speed but the road was full. Going the opposite way was a parking lot.
Click to expand...
Went out Friday afternoon, came back Monday, but the day after 10/10/2010. It was wedding central as far as the eye can see- people wanted the anniversary. (Probably because it'd be easy to remember, eh?)
 
NorthCoastHiawatha said:
I thought of another route that could be added Chicago-Milwaukee-Green Bay-maybe upper Michigan.

I seem to remember reading somewhere the state of Wisconsin was studying such an option.
Click to expand...
MKE-GBY is part of the WisDOT long-range rail planning and Midwest Regional Rail Initiative planning. (Of course, so is/was MKE-Madison, and that is now in serious jeopardy, so don't hold your breath waiting for Hiawathas to run north of MKE.)
 
I agree that a Chicago-Atlanta-Miami route is a major gap in the network. And as a former Atlantan, I can testify that that city needs a lot more Amtrak service. Dare I say a second Crescent too, at least between ATL and NYP?

I also think that service between New Orleans and Jacksonville (formerly the Sunset) needs to be reinstated post haste. I understand why the service has been suspended these last 5 years, but it's an important route that needs to be served.

But a particularly large gap in the network, which has the shortest distance of all the gaps, is the Chicago-Detroit-Windsor-London-Toronto route. It would be tremendously helpful for riders on Via's Corridor services to be able to easily connect to Chicago, hub of the Amtrak network, without first changing trains in New York. Amtrak already operates service between Chicago and Detroit. And Via's Corridor services between Quebec City and Windsor stop just across the river.

Some other suggestions:

Houston - Dallas

Los Angeles - Las Vegas

Los Angeles - Bakersfield

Oklahoma City - Kansas City

Restoration of SWC service to Phoenix
 
Tracktwentynine said:
New Orleans and Jacksonville (formerly the Sunset) needs to be reinstated post haste. I understand why the service has been suspended these last 5 years
Click to expand...
You do understand it?
huh.gif
Then please explain it!
blink.gif


And don't say that Katrina ripped up the tracks! So why did CSX repair them within a short time and are using them everyday - and the SL-East is still "temporarily suspended" all these years later?
huh.gif
 
I'd love to see a "Front Range Flyer", going ELP-ABQ-Pueblo-Colorado Springs-DEN. There's a serious lack of north-south connections west of the Mississippi. Of course, this is actually on the drawing board, but totally unfunded since the states of NM and CO don't have any spare cash for the time being. But it's something they've both expressed serious interest in. And on a related note, keep watching for some news in the first week of January about possible time and/or routing changes to the Southwest Chief...

I'd also like a train going from Chicago to Kansas City at least once a day; the SWC is generally packed year-round on that portion, at least in coach. It could actually be done as a lead/follow for the SWC, so that the SWC could run NONSTOP (imagine that!!) between those two cities, cutting an hour or more off the total trip time. And with a secondary train, some intermediate additional stops could be added (remember Marceline, MO?).

And not to keep harping on the SWC (though it IS quite the workhorse), but I'd also like a SECOND SWC each day, running about 12 hours different, which would probably make it more appealing for those who live in the places where it stops in the middle of the night (NDL, KNG, NEW, and DDG stand out as potentially big business). If I recall correctly, the Super Chief and the Chief ran each day on nearly identical routes, so there's certainly a precedent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top