Why can the CZ not start and end in Omaha?

[iowa train fan]

Just curious on any thoughts out there. Amtrak claims it is only running from Denver west because it can not turn the train around in Omaha. Omaha is the home of UP and there is a fairly large rail yard right at the station. Are they being honest or is this more of a financial decision Just curious. I have a week to go until taking CZ and still no word on whether it will be by bus or rail

 

[jackal]

It may have to do with the lack of Amtrak switching crews in Omaha, although it might be possible to pay a BNSF switching crew to handle the moves, but that brings in policy issues (BNSF employees aren't likely to be trained to handle passenger equipment), liability issues, as well as extra costs.

Then again, I'm not sure why they're able to do it in DEN, then, as I doubt there's any Amtrak switching crews based in Denver, either.

Maybe Denver has a balloon loop track or a wye big enough to handle a whole Amtrak train, which would allow the Amtrak road crew to easily turn the train around. Maybe Omaha doesn't...although as you said, it's the UP's home base and I'm sure a major rail yard like that would have a wye or something.

 

[PRR 60]

It may have to do with the lack of Amtrak switching crews in Omaha, although it might be possible to pay a BNSF switching crew to handle the moves, but that brings in policy issues (BNSF employees aren't likely to be trained to handle passenger equipment), liability issues, as well as extra costs.
Then again, I'm not sure why they're able to do it in DEN, then, as I doubt there's any Amtrak switching crews based in Denver, either.

Maybe Denver has a balloon loop track or a wye big enough to handle a whole Amtrak train, which would allow the Amtrak road crew to easily turn the train around. Maybe Omaha doesn't...although as you said, it's the UP's home base and I'm sure a major rail yard like that would have a wye or something.

Amtrak turns every train that comes into Denver in order to back into the station.
If the BNSF doesn't have facilities to handle the servicing and turning of the train in Omaha, then Amtrak would have to use the Union Pacific yard. Amtrak would not have crews qualified to operate on the UP tracks at Omaha. They would need to get pilots from the UP to move the train into the yard, turn it, service it, and run it back to the station. That would be costly and a logistic problem for both the UP and Amtrak. If they were busing across Iowa, then it might be worth it. But with no through passengers to or from the east, Omaha becomes a stub end that probably boards too few passengers to make the cost worthwhile.

 

[jackal]

It may have to do with the lack of Amtrak switching crews in Omaha, although it might be possible to pay a BNSF switching crew to handle the moves, but that brings in policy issues (BNSF employees aren't likely to be trained to handle passenger equipment), liability issues, as well as extra costs.
Then again, I'm not sure why they're able to do it in DEN, then, as I doubt there's any Amtrak switching crews based in Denver, either.

Maybe Denver has a balloon loop track or a wye big enough to handle a whole Amtrak train, which would allow the Amtrak road crew to easily turn the train around. Maybe Omaha doesn't...although as you said, it's the UP's home base and I'm sure a major rail yard like that would have a wye or something.

Amtrak turns every train that comes into Denver in order to back into the station.
If the BNSF doesn't have facilities to handle the servicing and turning of the train in Omaha, then Amtrak would have to use the Union Pacific yard. Amtrak would not have crews qualified to operate on the UP tracks at Omaha. They would need to get pilots from the UP to move the train into the yard, turn it, service it, and run it back to the station. That would be costly and a logistic problem for both the UP and Amtrak. If they were busing across Iowa, then it might be worth it. But with no through passengers to or from the east, Omaha becomes a stub end that probably boards too few passengers to make the cost worthwhile.

Ah, interesting--I didn't know the trains backed into Denver Union Station. (When I boarded it, I arrived at the station after the train had already arrived, so I didn't see it arrive.) That would explain my confusion when I was trying to Google Map the train's route into and out of Denver...

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Doesn't Amtrak also already have crew and equipment for the manuvering of the CHI-DEN sleeper?

 

[Neil_M]

Why does Amtrak have a burning need to turn/wye every train? I suppose its fine if you can do it, but in times of disruption then just taking the locos off and putting them on the other end is not the end of the world, or is it?

 

[VentureForth]

I think it mostly has to do with keeping the consists in the same order throughout the duration of the ride. Keeps folks from being confused about which way to the diner. It also would be a big disruption to passengers if that happened en-route. At terminals, if they swapped locos, the crew would have the added task of flipping the seats around.

Frankly, in my humble opinion, a good consist is bi-directional. You can go forward or backwards without having to do any switching.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak already has a spare locomotive in Denver, some cleaning crews and crews trained in rewatering the train. And yes they switch off that CHI-DEN sleeper there too. Additionally there is management there, an agreement with a local hotel for rooms for the crews that short turn. So it just makes far more sense, and probably considerably less expense, to turn the train in Denver, rather than Omaha.

 

[wayman]

Amtrak already has a spare locomotive in Denver, some cleaning crews and crews trained in rewatering the train. And yes they switch off that CHI-DEN sleeper there too. Additionally there is management there, an agreement with a local hotel for rooms for the crews that short turn. So it just makes far more sense, and probably considerably less expense, to turn the train in Denver, rather than Omaha.

In riding the train from Chicago to Grand Junction, I noticed something like a third of the coach passengers seemed to get off at Denver and that many new passengers reboarded. (Maybe my observations were inaccurate, or maybe that was atypical. But let's proceed assuming it's relatively typical.) None of those "Zone 3-only" riders are affected by the flooding, while perhaps as many as half (or more) of the folks who ride just in the "Zone 2-only" or "Zones 2-and-3" are forced to bus or are simply out of luck from the flooding. That's a substantial revenue hit, and extending to Omaha (but not further east) strikes me as unlikely to help from a revenue standpoint (weighing additional fares against increased operating costs).

Basically, if UP were running this train--if it were the City of San Francisco--Omaha would be a logical option, because operating costs wouldn't increase by all that much to terminate in Omaha. Relocating crews, having engineers trained on the relevant track, having standing hotel arrangements made, all of those would be minimal costs for the UP. But they're big costs for Amtrak in Omaha, and they're already-taken-care-of (by-and-large) costs for Amtrak in Denver.

I myself wondered "why not Omaha?" before reading this thread, but now it makes perfect sense to have chosen Denver. It's unfortunate for those riders who live between Denver and Omaha, but that's just the way the economics works when you have a tight-budgeted passenger railroad running on a separate, and somewhat begrudging and profit-hungry, freight railroad's tracks.

Whereas if we had a nationalized freight-and-passenger rail system, where rail was widely seen as a "public good", I suspect the train would be turning in Omaha instead. But we're not there.

 

[yarrow]

we just rode the cz from sac-den, asked the same question and were told it was much easier to provision the train in denver and that they had an extra engine there (which it turns out was needed as we lost one heading over the rockies).

 

[Zephyr Rocket]

I remember about 10 years ago, when there was flooding in Iowa (not as serious), they actually did turn the train around in Omaha. I am not sure if they just switched the locomotives or if the entire train was turned around. This only lasted about a week as the tracks were not out of service very long (compared to this time). But I had fun going down to the Amtrak station in the daytime and really enjoyed walking along the platform with the train just sitting there and getting cleaned.

 

[Trogdor]

I'm told it's because it would require an extra trainset to run to OMA, and that trainset is currently east of the blockage.

 

[iowa train fan]

Thanks to all for for great responses, I knew I came to the right place. I am still praying that things will return to normal by July 3 all though that sounds more and more unlikely with the more I read. Thanks again, you guys are great. Don