Why the lack of concrete ties?

[JxGx78]

Wikipedia has a section on rubber composite railroad ties, its seems that these offer a good cross between upkeep and installation. Does anyone know if Amtrak has any plans to use rubber composite ties?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Somehow, I can't imagine it taking the heat generated on the NEC for example.

 

[George Harris]

Wikipedia has a section on rubber composite railroad ties, its seems that these offer a good cross between upkeep and installation. Does anyone know if Amtrak has any plans to use rubber composite ties?

Do you have any links or sources other than Wikipedia. I found several, all by promoters of various rubber and other composite products. The funeral of the wood tie has been preached since the 1920's, and it ain't dead yet. Other than concrete, most of the substitutes that have come along to kill the wood tie off are dead. I have seen several come along, and a couple looked pretty good, but for one reason or another none made the cut.

I have a simple rule for promoters of new products: If they start by trying to sell the management on their wonderful idea, show them the door without giving them a hearing. If they start by trying to talk to the technical people that will use the product, they might have a good idea. Listen and maybe even try it.

 

[JxGx78]

Wikipedia has a section on rubber composite railroad ties, its seems that these offer a good cross between upkeep and installation. Does anyone know if Amtrak has any plans to use rubber composite ties?

Do you have any links or sources other than Wikipedia. I found several, all by promoters of various rubber and other composite products. The funeral of the wood tie has been preached since the 1920's, and it ain't dead yet. Other than concrete, most of the substitutes that have come along to kill the wood tie off are dead. I have seen several come along, and a couple looked pretty good, but for one reason or another none made the cut.

I have a simple rule for promoters of new products: If they start by trying to sell the management on their wonderful idea, show them the door without giving them a hearing. If they start by trying to talk to the technical people that will use the product, they might have a good idea. Listen and maybe even try it.

I don't know much about rail ties (like anything), just saw this thread, thought the topic was interesting, and looked it up on wikipedia. The composites sounded kind of cool, but wikipedia had very little information on them. I noticed no one here had mentioned composites just timber and concrete. I'm biased toward timber products, but understand the creosote to be kind of unhealthy. I have also heard some good things about modern composite lumber, and wanted to see if any one knew anything about composite rail ties. The only other link I have is one of the source articles from wikipedia

 

[George Harris]

The Union Paciifc "million tie" order from Tie Tek was spread over 5 years at 200,000 per year. This year (2008) is the last year of it. Will be interesting to see if they order more. At this point this sounds like a large scale expeiriment or series of test installations.

Based on the Tie Tek literature, the material is hgh density polyethelene (HDPE), not rubber. In the late 70's Koppers promoted HDPE tie plates. A few were installed in a couple of test sections. After a few years, they quietly went away. I visited one of the test installations at least 3 times. In a word, they were unsucessful. I have a couple that were taken out of one of the test section after the railroad went in and removed all those that had not failed. They had the grain of the wood imprinted in their bottom side, but that was not their failure, just a symptomof their hardness relative to the hardness of the wood. The shoulders broke off. Where any small rock had gotten between rail and plate, it was driven into the plate.

When they are talking about getting the price down to something in the range of twice the cost of a wood tie, they will not sell other than as either an expeiriment or for a special use. Concrete ties are cheaper than that. Even if it lasts twice as long as a wood tie, a present worth analysis says it is not worth doing.

 

[Guest_MontanaJim_*]

I know this is a little off-topic, but is there any track in the Amtrak system that still has jointed rail? I miss the glory days of railroading and the sound of "clickety clack".

 

[gswager]

Yes, SWC in NM (between Lamy and Trinidad), along with semiphores. I think there's additional section, maybe Colorado or Kansas.