Winter Planning for Empire Builder Trips

[montana mike]

I saw that too and my heart skipped a beat at seeing two "greens" on the status map. Both #8 in MN and #7 in ND are on time, BUT, BNSF drastically curtailed movement of all of its trains on the hi-line for the Thanksgiving holiday according to my local contact who sent me a note about the same time I was looking at the status boards. It looks like #8 has a chance to actually make it into CHI on time--which would be a first in many, many months. They likely will greet the train with champagne and a band!! (Just kidding). Wait until next week's trains to get a better picture of the new "normal".

Weekends appear to help somewhat, so that should be in your favor.

 

[tim49424]

BUT, BNSF drastically curtailed movement of all of its trains on the hi-line for the Thanksgiving holiday according to my local contact who sent me a note about the same time I was looking at the status boards.

I was told the same thing as well by a friend who is an Amtrak employee and also has many contacts with BNSF and CP. However, when I was on #8 on Tuesday, it arrived into Chicago after 6 PM. OTOH, it was well off the hi-line and out of BNSF territory into CP's jurisdiction when it started losing major time. It left MSP 1 hour and 15 minutes late and arrived in TOH, where I boarded, nearly 2 hours and 10 minutes behind schedule. I have heard that the CP dispatchers are not as kind to Amtrak as the BNSF ones. I've noticed quite a time loss daily for the most part from MSP to RDW, sometimes 45 minutes to an hour, so my gut feeling is CP is to blame for a good deal of that.

 

[montana mike]

CP has had some bridge issues lately, which could have been the cause for your delay. Several hours later and #8 is still on time not to far from MKE. Unless something unusual happens it should arrive on time in Chicago--chill that Champagne!!!!!!

 

[montana mike]

Note: today's #8 arrival into CHI: 14 minutes EARLY. First time that has happened in a very long time!!!!!!!!!! Amazing what a national holiday can do in this regard to remove most of the freight traffic.

 

[Guest]

The legal obligation of the freight railroads is to provide priority to Amtrak operations. If Amtrak feels they are not getting priority, that freight is being moved to the detriment of Amtrak operations, Amtrak's recourse by law is through the Surface Transportation Board. The STB has the final say. Amtrak does not have the option to take court action.

I'm pretty sure Amtrak can sue; the priority law predates the STB, it does *not* say that the STB has discretionary authority, and the STB can be overruled by the courts. There is some question over whether Amtrak can sue before it has tried an STB case, but Amtrak can certainly sue after trying the STB.

 

[Nathanael]

I have heard that the CP dispatchers are not as kind to Amtrak as the BNSF ones.

Hunter Harrison developed a reputation for bad dispatching of passenger rail, to the point of violating contracts with passenger rail agencies, when he was at CN -- and he moved to CP a year or two ago.
Matt Rose stated some years back that the cost of dispatching Amtrak on-time is minimal compared to the public relations benefits.

So yeah, I would be unsurprised if CP is causing trouble. Whereas I am inclined to give BNSF the benefit of the doubt and assume that they really are doing their best and are having trouble with trackwork.

 

[tim49424]

I have heard that the CP dispatchers are not as kind to Amtrak as the BNSF ones.

Hunter Harrison developed a reputation for bad dispatching of passenger rail, to the point of violating contracts with passenger rail agencies, when he was at CN -- and he moved to CP a year or two ago.
Matt Rose stated some years back that the cost of dispatching Amtrak on-time is minimal compared to the public relations benefits.

So yeah, I would be unsurprised if CP is causing trouble. Whereas I am inclined to give BNSF the benefit of the doubt and assume that they really are doing their best and are having trouble with trackwork.

Don't the freight lines have a contract with the government and thus they are breaching that contract by attitudes such as Harrison's and Rose's? That would be like me having a leaky pipe above my apartment and the landlord saying "Well, we'll get to you when we get to you" and the ceiling collapses due to the weight of the water.

 

[tim49424]

Both 7 and 8 have been taken off the map due to Service Disruptions out west. Anybody know why this happened?

 

[yarrow]

Both 7 and 8 have been taken off the map due to Service Disruptions out west. Anybody know why this happened?

8 isn't shown making it west of spk and 7 isn't shown east of libby. something must have happened. slide, track problem...?

 

[oregon pioneer]

Both 7 and 8 have been taken off the map due to Service Disruptions out west. Anybody know why this happened?

8 isn't shown making it west of spk and 7 isn't shown east of libby. something must have happened. slide, track problem...?

According to amtrak.com, train 8 was at Sandpoint 4 hours and 12 minutes late, but has not arrived in Libby (maybe never left SPT). Train 7 made it to Libby, but not through to Sandpoint. Can't find anything on the news about why that is.

 

[EB_OBS]

Both 7 and 8 have been taken off the map due to Service Disruptions out west. Anybody know why this happened?

8 isn't shown making it west of spk and 7 isn't shown east of libby. something must have happened. slide, track problem...?

According to amtrak.com, train 8 was at Sandpoint 4 hours and 12 minutes late, but has not arrived in Libby (maybe never left SPT). Train 7 made it to Libby, but not through to Sandpoint. Can't find anything on the news about why that is.

BNSF freight crew had a rules violation west of Sandpoint, ID.

They passed a stop signal and damaged a switch.

 

[yarrow]

Both 7 and 8 have been taken off the map due to Service Disruptions out west. Anybody know why this happened?

8 isn't shown making it west of spk and 7 isn't shown east of libby. something must have happened. slide, track problem...?

According to amtrak.com, train 8 was at Sandpoint 4 hours and 12 minutes late, but has not arrived in Libby (maybe never left SPT). Train 7 made it to Libby, but not through to Sandpoint. Can't find anything on the news about why that is.

BNSF freight crew had a rules violation west of Sandpoint, ID.

They passed a stop signal and damaged a switch.

good grief. thanks for the info

 

[montana mike]

The poor EB just can't cut a break!! Well, we had one day of on time trains--better than none.

:-(

 

[tim49424]

Both 7 and 8 have been taken off the map due to Service Disruptions out west. Anybody know why this happened?

8 isn't shown making it west of spk and 7 isn't shown east of libby. something must have happened. slide, track problem...?

According to amtrak.com, train 8 was at Sandpoint 4 hours and 12 minutes late, but has not arrived in Libby (maybe never left SPT). Train 7 made it to Libby, but not through to Sandpoint. Can't find anything on the news about why that is.

BNSF freight crew had a rules violation west of Sandpoint, ID.

They passed a stop signal and damaged a switch.

From what I've heard, that's the second time that happened in the last couple weeks.

 

[tim49424]

The poor EB just can't cut a break!! Well, we had one day of on time trains--better than none.

:-(

Today's arrived into CHI about 45 minutes late. Not bad, as it seemedly made all connecting trains.

 

[montana mike]

Looks like #8 in eastern MT is several hours late due to the BNSF SNAFU earlier today. Meanwhile 28 left PDX only a little over 2 hours behind. Remarkable, considering it was 6 hours late arriving!

 

[NW cannonball]

Now, #8 in eastern Montana has fallen of the map (both JB's and Amtrak's tracker) and it seems today's #8 didn't depart SEA (bustitution?)

Looks like another interesting midnight in Spokane - :wacko:

 

[the Other Mike]

Follow the money.

If railroad X is paid minimum $ for allowing Amtrak to use it's rails

and, railroad X is paid a premium for Amtraks "on time" performance ( keeping the tracks clear )

and railroad X pays a penalty for "not keeping the tracks clear"

yet railroad X can earn 100 times more than the penalty to run 40 or 50 other trains

What's the name of the bus driver ?

It's all about the money

 

[montana mike]

Back to "normal". Three of the four EBs are "in the red" as usual this Morning. Bummer.

 

[yarrow]

i guess amtrak's eb service advisory for novemeber has expired. wonder what the december advisory will look like? "you might get there and you might not. merry xmas from amtrak."

 

[montana mike]

I stand corrected--ALL of the EBs currently enroute are in the red--with at least two over 4 hours behind. My BNSF contact said BNSF is back to "normal" freight ops now, so he said expect to see up to 2 hour delays as the EBs travel thru MT and ND each way until a similar holiday schedule around Christmas.

 

[yarrow]

I stand corrected--ALL of the EBs currently enroute are in the red--with at least two over 4 hours behind. My BNSF contact said BNSF is back to "normal" freight ops now, so he said expect to see up to 2 hour delays as the EBs travel thru MT and ND each way until a similar holiday schedule around Christmas.

we are going spk-chi on 12/26 to connect with the cono. i hope we hit the holiday work lull.

 

[mwmnp]

In a few more days, the following information, lifted from the BNSF System Special Instructions, may be relevant. For the Empire Builder, Spokane is where the "regions" split: "Region 1" is the route west of Spokane and "Region 2" is the route east of Spokane to the Twin Cities.

On the CP, cold weather speed restrictions don't go into effect until the temperature reaches -30°F or colder, with the exception of Chicagoland, where a temperature of -10°F or colder may trigger restrictions. In any event, temperatures that cold along the CP line from St. Paul to Chicago are virtually unheard of in this day and age.

 

[montana mike]

-20 degrees is pretty standard fare for Eastern MT and much of ND in the winter, so these next 4-5 days should be tough ones for the EBs as well.

:-(

 

[Joe F]

Today's eastbound EB is over 9 hours late out of Rugby, ND. Looks like the on-time arrivals in Chicago over the weekend were flukes.

I ride Amtrak MSP-CHI-DER a couple of times a year. The 2 hour connection in Chicago was never a problem, and in nearly 25 years taking this route I never had a bustitution until about 4 years ago. Since then, EVERY trip has involved a bus on one of the two legs. (Eastbound only; the return trip has never been a problem).