Improvements To NEC Services

[AlanB]

The All Aboard section of Arrive is where Amtrak's President writes about his thoughts and ideas or whatever he thinks is important to say. In the July/August issue of Arrive Alex Kummant talks about the coming improvements to the NEC services.

He touches upon trying to improve services to exceed the expectations of customers, in fact the entire piece is entitled "Exceeding Expectations." He says "We want to make sure the experience of riding with us exceeds your expectations." A very lofty goal IMHO and one that they may not be able to actually accomplish, but still I applaud him for trying.

He then goes on to mention that Amtrak will be expanding the at-seat cars service on Acela express, as well as the new menus in First Class. He also states that "in the coming months that Amtrak will begin a two year project to refurbish First and Business Class interiors with new leather seats and carpeting." That's interesting since last I knew only FC was to receive the new leather seats, not to mention the fact that at least one trainset already has the leather seats at least in FC. Don't know if BC has leather.

Additionally he mentions that Regional service has now been renamed Northeast Regional. They also expect to refurbish Business class with new seats and interiors; improve the menu offerings to include fresh salads and sandwiches; as well as en-route cleanings to keep the trains and bathrooms cleaner. The later I know will be very welcome news to many people. In fact we had a big discussion on that very thing several months ago. Finally he mentions that the entire Northeast Regional fleet will have cafe cars with all tables on both ends. I don't know if that means the demise of the Club-Dinette car being used on some trains as the BC car or not.

 

[Steve4031]

That sounds like a good plan. I hope he has plans for the Midwest too.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I suspect it means, among other things, that the 66/67 are getting their sleepers back in the near future. Why? Because that train makes absolutely no sense with a full B/C car. So the only way to be accurate in that statement, and still have 66/67 make sense, it won't be a regional. Instead, Federal/Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner. I'm idly guessing, but a lot of things are suggesting to me that the Cardinal is going Superliner and its sleepers will go to 66/67

 

[wayman]

I suspect it means, among other things, that the 66/67 are getting their sleepers back in the near future. Why? Because that train makes absolutely no sense with a full B/C car. So the only way to be accurate in that statement, and still have 66/67 make sense, it won't be a regional. Instead, Federal/Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner. I'm idly guessing, but a lot of things are suggesting to me that the Cardinal is going Superliner and its sleepers will go to 66/67

... with the Cardinal terminating in WAS? I see no problem with that myself, but it would be a consequence of this and should be considered.

 

[Guest_soitgoes_*]

Link:

http://www.arrive-digital.com/arrive/20080...1&u1=friend

 

[amamba]

I think that NEC trains could absolutely use an upgrade to their business class cars - sounds exciting to me! I would also be super excited for the return of the sleepers on the 66/67 route. My husband and I have already pretty much sworn off flying between BOS and NYC/WAS, but how nice if we could sleep our way there overnight in a roomette.

It will be interesting to see what these changes are!

 

[AlanB]

I suspect it means, among other things, that the 66/67 are getting their sleepers back in the near future. Why? Because that train makes absolutely no sense with a full B/C car. So the only way to be accurate in that statement, and still have 66/67 make sense, it won't be a regional. Instead, Federal/Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner. I'm idly guessing, but a lot of things are suggesting to me that the Cardinal is going Superliner and its sleepers will go to 66/67

... with the Cardinal terminating in WAS? I see no problem with that myself, but it would be a consequence of this and should be considered.

I see a big problem with the Cardinal going back to Superliners, even though I personally would prefer that as nothing less that a Sightseer Lounge does justice to the New River Gorge.

But terminating the Cardinal in DC will kill its ridership numbers. They have soared beyond the normal annual increases that Amtrak has seen, ever since the train started providing one seat rides to NYP, PHL, WIL, and BAL. That revenue will be hard to replace, unless the Cardinal goes daily from DC to CHI.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I see a big problem with the Cardinal going back to Superliners, even though I personally would prefer that as nothing less that a Sightseer Lounge does justice to the New River Gorge.

Is the Sightseer Lounger superior to a traditional dome car on a single level train?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I suspect it means, among other things, that the 66/67 are getting their sleepers back in the near future. Why? Because that train makes absolutely no sense with a full B/C car. So the only way to be accurate in that statement, and still have 66/67 make sense, it won't be a regional. Instead, Federal/Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner. I'm idly guessing, but a lot of things are suggesting to me that the Cardinal is going Superliner and its sleepers will go to 66/67

You seem to be making the assumption that Amtrak would never do something that makes no sense. Which somehow strikes me as an odd assumption, given Amtrak's past history.

 

[Trogdor]

I know this is wishful thinking, but it would be nice if Amtrak could run the Cardinal a little bit later eastbound, a little bit earlier westbound, and through-route it to Boston on 66/67's schedule.

 

[planetcadillac]

I suspect it means, among other things, that the 66/67 are getting their sleepers back in the near future. Why? Because that train makes absolutely no sense with a full B/C car. So the only way to be accurate in that statement, and still have 66/67 make sense, it won't be a regional. Instead, Federal/Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner. I'm idly guessing, but a lot of things are suggesting to me that the Cardinal is going Superliner and its sleepers will go to 66/67

I have ridden 66/67 and sometimes they have had full B/C cars and sometimes a half compartment in front of the café. Some of those half compartments have been with leather seats. I would agree that it would be wise to go back to a sleeper from WAS to BOS. I quit riding that overnight train because I can't sleep in a chair even in B/C.

The ? would be would there be sufficient demand for sleepers on the NEC. While it is an overnight train the pax seem to be especially eclectic and use it (at least as I have observed in my travels) as a commuter at night as opposed to more traditional long term riders. A majority if not most passengers seem to get on or off in NYC or Philly or something.

 

[AlanB]

I see a big problem with the Cardinal going back to Superliners, even though I personally would prefer that as nothing less that a Sightseer Lounge does justice to the New River Gorge.

Is the Sightseer Lounger superior to a traditional dome car on a single level train?

In a word, NO!

But a Sightseer lounge is far superior to an Amfleet lounge, be it an AMF I or AMF II lounge.

 

[AlanB]

I suspect it means, among other things, that the 66/67 are getting their sleepers back in the near future. Why? Because that train makes absolutely no sense with a full B/C car. So the only way to be accurate in that statement, and still have 66/67 make sense, it won't be a regional. Instead, Federal/Night Owl/Twilight Shoreliner. I'm idly guessing, but a lot of things are suggesting to me that the Cardinal is going Superliner and its sleepers will go to 66/67

I have ridden 66/67 and sometimes they have had full B/C cars and sometimes a half compartment in front of the café. Some of those half compartments have been with leather seats. I would agree that it would be wise to go back to a sleeper from WAS to BOS. I quit riding that overnight train because I can't sleep in a chair even in B/C.

The ? would be would there be sufficient demand for sleepers on the NEC. While it is an overnight train the pax seem to be especially eclectic and use it (at least as I have observed in my travels) as a commuter at night as opposed to more traditional long term riders. A majority if not most passengers seem to get on or off in NYC or Philly or something.

Actually the Federal used to offer both a Viewliner sleeper for those willing to pay, as well as the Club-Dinette which offers the 2 & 1 seating with faux leather.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

I see a big problem with the Cardinal going back to Superliners, even though I personally would prefer that as nothing less that a Sightseer Lounge does justice to the New River Gorge.

Is the Sightseer Lounger superior to a traditional dome car on a single level train?

In a word, NO!

But a Sightseer lounge is far superior to an Amfleet lounge, be it an AMF I or AMF II lounge.

Nothing beats a dome. A ride in a dome car is the Royal Flush of rail travel.

 

[had8ley]

I see a big problem with the Cardinal going back to Superliners, even though I personally would prefer that as nothing less that a Sightseer Lounge does justice to the New River Gorge.

Is the Sightseer Lounger superior to a traditional dome car on a single level train?

In a word, NO!

But a Sightseer lounge is far superior to an Amfleet lounge, be it an AMF I or AMF II lounge.

Nothing beats a dome. A ride in a dome car is the Royal Flush of rail travel.

I'll raise that Royal Flush with a cride on the the back platform of a UP business car or a cab ride in the business train E-9's.

 

[jis]

I see a big problem with the Cardinal going back to Superliners, even though I personally would prefer that as nothing less that a Sightseer Lounge does justice to the New River Gorge.

Is the Sightseer Lounger superior to a traditional dome car on a single level train?

I think a traditional single level dome car is superior to a Sightseer lounge car.

However, in the context of the single level Cardinal, it does not have a dome car, and if it did it would not fit into New York Penn Station anymore thus negating the whole purpose of running it with single level equipment.

 

[PRR 60]

I see a big problem with the Cardinal going back to Superliners, even though I personally would prefer that as nothing less that a Sightseer Lounge does justice to the New River Gorge.

Is the Sightseer Lounger superior to a traditional dome car on a single level train?

I think a traditional single level dome car is superior to a Sightseer lounge car.

However, in the context of the single level Cardinal, it does not have a dome car, and if it did it would not fit into New York Penn Station anymore thus negating the whole purpose of running it with single level equipment.

An interesting academic question is whether an NEC-capable dome care could be designed using the cross section geometry of the NJT multi-level as a template. I'm not sure how comfortable I would be sitting in a dome looking at an 11,000 volt wire just inches away, but I wonder if it could be done.

 

[wayman]

An interesting academic question is whether an NEC-capable dome care could be designed using the cross section geometry of the NJT multi-level as a template. I'm not sure how comfortable I would be sitting in a dome looking at an 11,000 volt wire just inches away, but I wonder if it could be done.

How much taller is the NJT multi-level than an Amfleet? If it's two feet taller, I'd say it could be done.... Since the car would be non-revenue (aside from food service), nobody has to sit there once it's on the NEC. It wouldn't just be the potential fear-factor; the wire would also really clutter the view fore and aft, as well as perhaps cast weird shadows. Of course, the wire would be just as close to the top of an NJT roof, it's just that its out-of-sight, out-of-mind there.

I like this idea. Though I don't know how designing such a car would actually be worth it financially for Amtrak--I doubt it would substantially improve ridership if it were part of the regular consist. Unless... it was a dome sleeper. I bet you could do an offset dome (towards one end of the car) and six roomettes, a shower, and an attendant room, in the other half. The problem is, do you limit the dome to sleeper passengers, or do you put a door between the dome half and the sleeper half and always position the car dome-end towards the food service so coach passengers never walk through the sleeper area? Car location and orientation shouldn't be that difficult a thing to make happen, but it seems like it often is for Amtrak since they can never say which side a given roomette will be on....

 

[Chessie Hokie]

I know this is wishful thinking, but it would be nice if Amtrak could run the Cardinal a little bit later eastbound, a little bit earlier westbound, and through-route it to Boston on 66/67's schedule.

That would be great. Until a couple of years ago that is the way the schedule worked...it allowed for Charlottesville folks to ride to Staunton, have lunch at the Pullman Restaurant in the former C&O station and return to Charlottesville on the eastbound Cardinal. That was a very popular excursion for kids' birthday parties...I did it for my youngest son once! All the railfans in C'ville would love to be able to do that little jaunt again...the current schedule has the eastbound and westbound crossing each other about halfway between C'ville and Staunton, around Afton.

BTW, for those not fortunate enough to be native Virginians...the correct pronunciation of Staunton is STAN-ton...birthplace of President Woodrow Wilson. I wonder how many Yankee spies in the Valley slipped up on that one durring the "late unpleasantness"?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

However, in the context of the single level Cardinal, it does not have a dome car, and if it did it would not fit into New York Penn Station anymore thus negating the whole purpose of running it with single level equipment.

P42s don't operate into Penn Station either, and somehow they manage to run P42s on the Cardinal west of WAS.

 

[VentureForth]

I would really like to see an increase in real service in business class outside of the NEC, ie: The Carolinian (leather seats) and the Palmetto (enough beverages to last the entire route).

 

[wayman]

That would be great. Until a couple of years ago that is the way the schedule worked...it allowed for Charlottesville folks to ride to Staunton, have lunch at the Pullman Restaurant in the former C&O station and return to Charlottesville on the eastbound Cardinal. That was a very popular excursion for kids' birthday parties...I did it for my youngest son once! All the railfans in C'ville would love to be able to do that little jaunt again...the current schedule has the eastbound and westbound crossing each other about halfway between C'ville and Staunton, around Afton.

My first trip on Amtrak was when I was about 13, taking the eastbound Cardinal from Clifton Forge to Staunton, having a couple hour layover there, and then taking the westbound Cardinal back, having dinner in the diner. I have no idea if photos exist; I don't actually remember the trip myself. I'm sure it was wonderful, though.

 

[George Harris]

In early Amtrak days, the train on the Cardinal route, I believe called either the James Whitcomb Riley, or the George Washington, which were the names of the pre-Amtrak trains west and east of Cincinatti, respectively, carried a dome between Chicago and Charlottesville, VA. I was one of about three people that spent a goodly part of the night and then saw the dawn over West Virginia from it, one night/morning in late 1971. Beautiful.

 

[PRR 60]

...How much taller is the NJT multi-level than an Amfleet? If it's two feet taller, I'd say it could be done.... Since the car would be non-revenue (aside from food service), nobody has to sit there once it's on the NEC. It wouldn't just be the potential fear-factor; the wire would also really clutter the view fore and aft, as well as perhaps cast weird shadows. Of course, the wire would be just as close to the top of an NJT roof, it's just that its out-of-sight, out-of-mind there.
I like this idea. Though I don't know how designing such a car would actually be worth it financially for Amtrak--I doubt it would substantially improve ridership if it were part of the regular consist. Unless... it was a dome sleeper. I bet you could do an offset dome (towards one end of the car) and six roomettes, a shower, and an attendant room, in the other half. The problem is, do you limit the dome to sleeper passengers, or do you put a door between the dome half and the sleeper half and always position the car dome-end towards the food service so coach passengers never walk through the sleeper area? Car location and orientation shouldn't be that difficult a thing to make happen, but it seems like it often is for Amtrak since they can never say which side a given roomette will be on....

The NJT multi-level is 22 inches taller above top of rail than an Amfleet car (14' 6 vs 12' 8). The 22" height adder for the dome would be marginal. And I agree completely that this is one of those "wouldn't it be nice" ideas that makes no business sense at all.

But while I'm at it, here's another. Assuming they have not been scrapped, there are two or three Viewliner prototypes at Bear DE just sitting. Let's gut them, mechanically bring them up to 2008, and turn them into "Atlantic Palour" cars. The car shells should be fine. The double row of windows would make for sort of an observation car feel. Then let's select one of the two Silver Service trains, and make it an east coast version of the Coast Starlight with upgraded food and the Palour for Sleeper passengers. They would need more than two or three, but you got to start somewhere. Right now, the Silvers seem to be a ride and not much more. Compared to Superliner trains, the single level trains are pretty rag-tag. The so-called "lounge" on the single level LD's is something a tad short of a "lounge car". Having an Atlantic Palour (they can use that name for free: my gift to Amtrak) would be a nice perk. This may be just another idea that has no chance, but daydreaming is fun, and free.

 

[AlanB]

However, in the context of the single level Cardinal, it does not have a dome car, and if it did it would not fit into New York Penn Station anymore thus negating the whole purpose of running it with single level equipment.

P42s don't operate into Penn Station either, and somehow they manage to run P42s on the Cardinal west of WAS.

And just this past October Amtrak ran the one remaning full dome that it owns on the Adirondack.