Other Auto Train routes?

[colobok]

Anybody knows what "other places" for new Auto Train routes they are talking about (see bold)?

That would be an excellent plan!

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prda...ws.asp?id=20445

Amtrak launches construction on new Auto Train station in Florida. Yesterday, Amtrak broke ground on a new Auto Train station in Sanford, Fla., the southern most terminus for the service, which enables passengers to travel with their own vehicles from Lorton, Va., to Sanford.

Amtrak plans to seek other places throughout the country where it can launch other Auto Train services.

 

[TampAGS]

Anybody knows what "other places" for new Auto Train routes they are talking about (see bold)?That would be an excellent plan!

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prda...ws.asp?id=20445

Amtrak launches construction on new Auto Train station in Florida. Yesterday, Amtrak broke ground on a new Auto Train station in Sanford, Fla., the southern most terminus for the service, which enables passengers to travel with their own vehicles from Lorton, Va., to Sanford.

Amtrak plans to seek other places throughout the country where it can launch other Auto Train services.

I too was intrigued by their announcement of additional possible Auto-Train routes. I guess they are hoping to create another cash-cow, seeing as the existing Lorton-Sanford route is one of Amtrak's most lucrative.

 

I've seen speculation in various parts of the web about possible routes from the Chicago area down to Florida, as well as Michigan to Florida. The Midwest in general seems to be the region most able to support a second Auto-Train. Are there any destinations outside of Florida that would have the demand for this service, either north-south or east-west routes?

 

I guess one place they won't be taking the Auto-Train to is Louisville, KY. Never mind the fact that trains don't serve Louisville now... Before Amtrak ran the service, when Auto-Train was a private company, they expanded by creating a second route from Louisville to Sanford. This turned out to be a mistake and the route cost the company millions of dollars, hastening their ultimate demise, which cleared the way for Amtrak to launch the Auto-Train we know today. I'm not sure what the exact nature of the problems were with the KY-FL route, but I've heard track problems were a big factor, which perhaps explains why Amtrak doesn't service Louisville by train today. I've also read criticism of the KY location being too far south and east, putting it too close to the Lorton facility to draw enough of its own business.

 

[SUNSETLIMITED01]

Anybody knows what "other places" for new Auto Train routes they are talking about (see bold)?That would be an excellent plan!

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prda...ws.asp?id=20445

Amtrak launches construction on new Auto Train station in Florida. Yesterday, Amtrak broke ground on a new Auto Train station in Sanford, Fla., the southern most terminus for the service, which enables passengers to travel with their own vehicles from Lorton, Va., to Sanford.

Amtrak plans to seek other places throughout the country where it can launch other Auto Train services.

I too was intrigued by their announcement of additional possible Auto-Train routes. I guess they are hoping to create another cash-cow, seeing as the existing Lorton-Sanford route is one of Amtrak's most lucrative.

 

I've seen speculation in various parts of the web about possible routes from the Chicago area down to Florida, as well as Michigan to Florida. The Midwest in general seems to be the region most able to support a second Auto-Train. Are there any destinations outside of Florida that would have the demand for this service, either north-south or east-west routes?

 

I guess one place they won't be taking the Auto-Train to is Louisville, KY. Never mind the fact that trains don't serve Louisville now... Before Amtrak ran the service, when Auto-Train was a private company, they expanded by creating a second route from Louisville to Sanford. This turned out to be a mistake and the route cost the company millions of dollars, hastening their ultimate demise, which cleared the way for Amtrak to launch the Auto-Train we know today. I'm not sure what the exact nature of the problems were with the KY-FL route, but I've heard track problems were a big factor, which perhaps explains why Amtrak doesn't service Louisville by train today. I've also read criticism of the KY location being too far south and east, putting it too close to the Lorton facility to draw enough of its own business.

I heard the Orginial also had derailments tha took place as well. This was also a factor as well.

 

[WICT106]

TampaGS has two of the reasons correct, in that for many Midwesterners, Louisville is already "South." The issues of dilapidated track in IN continue to exist for any service outside of a couple of well maintained main lines. Another reason that could be added to what TampAGS has already listed is the alignment through TN and GA, which would require considerable upgrades if not realignment or reconstruction, in order to increase speeds between Nashville and points southeast. Even during the "Glory Days" of the 1920's, 30's and through the 50's, the track speeds on considerable stretches of track between Nashville and the SE were in the 35 - 50 mph range. These segments of track would have to be upgraded, along with the track in AL and GA in order to allow average speeds in excess of 60 mph.

This poster has noticed that in order to get average speeds over 60 mph, it may be necessary to have top speeds in excess of 100 mph, necessitating FRA Class 6 track.

Also to be addressed is the fact that the Chicago Market is less than half the size (depending on how it is measured ) of the market of the NEC. This market also does not have the proportional affinity for going to FL that the Northeasterners do. Indeed, the question remains, "Where else can a service such as Auto - Train be placed?"

 

[colobok]

Indeed, the question remains, "Where else can a service such as Auto - Train be placed?"

What about East to West?

Basically it can be placed anywhere. Even without terminals.

How much spaces do you need to load autos to the train? Just a small parking lot.

Just load them somewhere near the station and connect this car to one of existing trains!

It's very easy and it's done this way in Europe.

Actually several major Amtrak trains can be also "Auto Trains" with "auto" service between terminuses.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Anybody knows what "other places" for new Auto Train routes they are talking about (see bold)?That would be an excellent plan!

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prda...ws.asp?id=20445

Amtrak launches construction on new Auto Train station in Florida. Yesterday, Amtrak broke ground on a new Auto Train station in Sanford, Fla., the southern most terminus for the service, which enables passengers to travel with their own vehicles from Lorton, Va., to Sanford.

Amtrak plans to seek other places throughout the country where it can launch other Auto Train services.

I too was intrigued by their announcement of additional possible Auto-Train routes. I guess they are hoping to create another cash-cow, seeing as the existing Lorton-Sanford route is one of Amtrak's most lucrative.

 

I've seen speculation in various parts of the web about possible routes from the Chicago area down to Florida, as well as Michigan to Florida. The Midwest in general seems to be the region most able to support a second Auto-Train. Are there any destinations outside of Florida that would have the demand for this service, either north-south or east-west routes?

 

I guess one place they won't be taking the Auto-Train to is Louisville, KY. Never mind the fact that trains don't serve Louisville now... Before Amtrak ran the service, when Auto-Train was a private company, they expanded by creating a second route from Louisville to Sanford. This turned out to be a mistake and the route cost the company millions of dollars, hastening their ultimate demise, which cleared the way for Amtrak to launch the Auto-Train we know today. I'm not sure what the exact nature of the problems were with the KY-FL route, but I've heard track problems were a big factor, which perhaps explains why Amtrak doesn't service Louisville by train today. I've also read criticism of the KY location being too far south and east, putting it too close to the Lorton facility to draw enough of its own business.

I heard the Orginial also had derailments tha took place as well. This was also a factor as well.

Yes it it did have derailments and other problems. In fact its demise and history were kind of similar to that of the ill fated Floridian.

 

[henryj]

The obvious first choice is Chicago(Midwest) to Florida as the Sanford terminal is already available. Historically there were three main routes and three delux trains that ran on alternate days plus a fourth route we shall look at later. First was the 'City of Miami' which ran down the IC as far as Fulton, a route still used by the CONO. It then diverted to Birmingham and used CofGa and ACL to get to Jacksonville. The L&N ran the 'South Wind' which used the Pennsy Chi to Cincinnati then went via Louisville, Nashville, Birmingham and Montgomery. This seems to be the route that Amtrak's Floridian and Auto Train used(the two trains were combined beyond Louisville). The L&N also ran two more trains through Knoxville and Atlanta. Then the C&EI ran the Dixie Flyer via Evansville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta and Waycross. Some of you experts would have to speak as to the condition of these routes today.

But, the Southern, now NS ran it's own trains the 'Royal Palm' and the 'Ponce De Leon' from Cincinnati down the 'rat hole' via Lexington, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Macon and Valdosta. NS tracks all the way. A look at the NS route map show these tracks still shown as main lines. We know the 'rat hole' as far as Chattanooga is in excellent condition. What about the rest of the route? Total route miles from Cincinnati is 840 and took 22hours. Currently Amtrak has service as far as Cincinnati as the Cardinal. It takes 8 1/2 hours to go the 319 miles. Perhaps this route would work for Chi to Florida service plus Auto Train. Timing was overnight Chi to Cincinnati, day service thru Chattanooga and Atlanta and overnight between Atlanta and Jacksonville. The Southern also ran the 'Ponce De Leon' on an opposite schedule which would be more usable for an Auto Train. Interesting and amazing that all these trains were available from the Midwest to Florida and now there are none.

Other routes that cry out for Auto Train service are out West. Chi to Glacier Park/Yellowstone Park area, Chi to Colorado, Chi to the west coast, Texas(DFW) to Colorado and Calif to the Pacific NW.

 

[wayman]

Also to be addressed is the fact that the Chicago Market is less than half the size (depending on how it is measured ) of the market of the NEC. This market also does not have the proportional affinity for going to FL that the Northeasterners do.

On a one-week trip to the Tampa area in spring 2001, my friend and I kept an informal tally of license plates by state/province. After Florida, the most common two license plates were Michigan and Ontario, by a pretty wide margin over anything in the northeast. Of course, this doesn't mean midwesterners outnumbered northeasterners in Florida that week--I'm sure tons of northeasterners did just what my friend and I did, fly down and rent a car (with Florida license plates, of course). But it does mean that lots and lots of midwesterners love their cars enough that they're willing to drive to Florida ... and they would probably be very happy to take an Auto Train from the midwest.

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

The obvious first choice is Chicago(Midwest) to Florida as the Sanford terminal is already available. Historically there were three main routes and three delux trains that ran on alternate days plus a fourth route we shall look at later. First was the 'City of Miami' which ran down the IC as far as Fulton, a route still used by the CONO. It then diverted to Birmingham and used CofGa and ACL to get to Jacksonville. The L&N ran the 'South Wind' which used the Pennsy Chi to Cincinnati then went via Louisville, Nashville, Birmingham and Montgomery. This seems to be the route that Amtrak's Floridian and Auto Train used(the two trains were combined beyond Louisville). The L&N also ran two more trains through Knoxville and Atlanta. Then the C&EI ran the Dixie Flyer via Evansville, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta and Waycross. Some of you experts would have to speak as to the condition of these routes today.
But, the Southern, now NS ran it's own trains the 'Royal Palm' and the 'Ponce De Leon' from Cincinnati down the 'rat hole' via Lexington, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Macon and Valdosta. NS tracks all the way. A look at the NS route map show these tracks still shown as main lines. We know the 'rat hole' as far as Chattanooga is in excellent condition. What about the rest of the route? Total route miles from Cincinnati is 840 and took 22hours. Currently Amtrak has service as far as Cincinnati as the Cardinal. It takes 8 1/2 hours to go the 319 miles. Perhaps this route would work for Chi to Florida service plus Auto Train. Timing was overnight Chi to Cincinnati, day service thru Chattanooga and Atlanta and overnight between Atlanta and Jacksonville. The Southern also ran the 'Ponce De Leon' on an opposite schedule which would be more usable for an Auto Train. Interesting and amazing that all these trains were available from the Midwest to Florida and now there are none.

Other routes that cry out for Auto Train service are out West. Chi to Glacier Park/Yellowstone Park area, Chi to Colorado, Chi to the west coast, Texas(DFW) to Colorado and Calif to the Pacific NW.

Just a slight note.You refer to the Dixie Flyer as one of the deluxe trains from CHI to Miami.Well, the Dixie Flyer did run that route, but the deluxe train was the Dixie Flagler.In 1954 it was re equipped and renamed the Dixieland.But in November 1957 it was discontinued. The Dixie Flyer and also the Dixie Limited had been grand and glorious trains during the steam engine heavyweight days. But with the coming of the Dixie Flagler (and also the Georgian from Chicago/ST.Louis to ATL) their status declined signifcantly.

My apology if you already knew this, the alliteration sort of does its thing between Flyer and Flagler.

And yes, the Floridian inherited the South Wind route. In fact in the original days of Amtrak the name South Wind was kept.

 

[wayman]

TampaGS has two of the reasons correct, in that for many Midwesterners, Louisville is already "South."

What about Indianapolis/Beech Grove as a midwestern terminus? Well-positioned--3 hrs from Chicago, 4 from St. Louis, 5 from Detroit, 5 from Milwaukee, 4 from Toledo, 2 from Cincinnati, 2 from Louisville....

Would it be possible to run it on the Cardinal's route to Cincinnati, then on the old Powhatan Arrow route from Cincinnati through Bluefield, Christiansburg, Roanoke, Lynchburg to Petersburg, where it would turn south and follow the existing Silver/AutoTrain route to Sanford? I don't know what the track condition and speed restrictions are from Cincinnati to Roanoke along that route today, but I'm guessing it's not bad.... I'm not suggesting the train make stops at those intermediate cities, I'm just listing them to make the route clear.

The Mountaineer did Chicago to Petersburg in 24 hrs 30 min; without stops, without splitting off the JWR, perhaps it could do that stretch in 22 hrs? And then from Petersburg to Sanford is another ... 16 hrs? 38 hrs total, scheduled to depart 5pm on Monday and arrive 7am on Wednesday? It's a long train ... it's anything but efficient, but it's probably smoother than the Kentucky route by far. You'd have to have some sort of substantial on-board entertainment, an amusement car for kids. But maybe you could get Disney to sponsor the amusement car....

 

[henryj]

Just a slight note.You refer to the Dixie Flyer as one of the deluxe trains from CHI to Miami.Well, the Dixie Flyer did run that route, but the deluxe train was the Dixie Flagler.In 1954 it was re equipped and renamed the Dixieland.But in November 1957 it was discontinued. The Dixie Flyer and also the Dixie Limited had been grand and glorious trains during the steam engine heavyweight days. But with the coming of the Dixie Flagler (and also the Georgian from Chicago/ST.Louis to ATL) their status declined signifcantly.
My apology if you already knew this, the alliteration sort of does its thing between Flyer and Flagler.

And yes, the Floridian inherited the South Wind route. In fact in the original days of Amtrak the name South Wind was kept.

Sorry Bill. I misstated. I was using the 1956 Official Guide and you are correct the flagship was the Dixieland. The Dixie Flyer was a secondary train on the route which also carried the Hummingbird and the Georgian.

Have any idea what the status is of the NS route or if it could be used?

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

Just a slight note.You refer to the Dixie Flyer as one of the deluxe trains from CHI to Miami.Well, the Dixie Flyer did run that route, but the deluxe train was the Dixie Flagler.In 1954 it was re equipped and renamed the Dixieland.But in November 1957 it was discontinued. The Dixie Flyer and also the Dixie Limited had been grand and glorious trains during the steam engine heavyweight days. But with the coming of the Dixie Flagler (and also the Georgian from Chicago/ST.Louis to ATL) their status declined signifcantly.
My apology if you already knew this, the alliteration sort of does its thing between Flyer and Flagler.

And yes, the Floridian inherited the South Wind route. In fact in the original days of Amtrak the name South Wind was kept.

Sorry Bill. I misstated. I was using the 1956 Official Guide and you are correct the flagship was the Dixieland. The Dixie Flyer was a secondary train on the route which also carried the Hummingbird and the Georgian.

Have any idea what the status is of the NS route or if it could be used?

I think it still sees a lot of freights through Atlanta and Chattanooga.

 

[DAWall]

Just a slight note.You refer to the Dixie Flyer as one of the deluxe trains from CHI to Miami.Well, the Dixie Flyer did run that route, but the deluxe train was the Dixie Flagler.In 1954 it was re equipped and renamed the Dixieland.But in November 1957 it was discontinued. The Dixie Flyer and also the Dixie Limited had been grand and glorious trains during the steam engine heavyweight days. But with the coming of the Dixie Flagler (and also the Georgian from Chicago/ST.Louis to ATL) their status declined signifcantly.
My apology if you already knew this, the alliteration sort of does its thing between Flyer and Flagler.

And yes, the Floridian inherited the South Wind route. In fact in the original days of Amtrak the name South Wind was kept.

Sorry Bill. I misstated. I was using the 1956 Official Guide and you are correct the flagship was the Dixieland. The Dixie Flyer was a secondary train on the route which also carried the Hummingbird and the Georgian.

Have any idea what the status is of the NS route or if it could be used?

I had this posted on another thread on midwest Florida service:

I would enjoy seeing a Chicago-Florida train again too...maybe routed via Cincinnti because of better track conditions. Or how about a Midwest Auto train, out of lets say Beech Grove in Indianapolis. They have plenty of spare land around the area that could be developed, its close to the Interstate...It's central to many midwest cites...and what better place to maintain the train, with you main Superliner shop right next door

 

[RTOlson]

How about NOL-ORL?

Yes, I'm kidding. I think the Midwest is probably the best option, but there the route would need to be relatively direct and speedy.

 

[Guest_TransAtlantic_*]

How about CHI to southern Texas, w/ access to Galveston, Padre Island, etc.?? Still close to NOL, lots of available land for building a new station, etc.

 

[VentureForth]

This has been pounded to death in other threads, but the conclusion I have come to is that for the Auto Train to work, you have to have a route short enough to make daily non-stop round trips with enough time for basic maintenance, loading and unloading at either end, and schedule pad to be successful. In addition, you have to place that defined trip time (mileage is not as important as is a guaranteed trip time) in between MAJOR human migratory routes. That's why the Auto Train today works - it's a 17 hour trip between the heavily populated NE and the heavily populated SE. Really, the existing terminii are just about perfect. From Sanford, you have one hour access to Orlando or Daytona, you have 3 hour access to Tampa and about 5 hours to go to get to Miami. If the Northern terminus could be brought up closer to Baltimore or Newark, I think that ridership would increase dramatically, but it would be impossible to make the trip with two trainsets.

So, that all being said, is Louisville a practical terminus for another Auto Train route? I don't think that the flow of people from Chicago/ Indianapolis/ Cincinnati to the SE even comes close to the migratory pattern of those travelling from NY, NY, et al. Rader seemed to think there was 20 years ago, and who knows? Perhaps if the track conditions were NEC quality from Louisville to Sanford, then it could happen. But Auto Train can't afford to upgrade the Freight's track for that level of required service.

Where else do such migratory patterns occur? I think the only other is between Chicago and NY. But that's a lot shorter route than Lorton to Sanford, and there are so many more places in between that makes frequent stops more desireable than non stop Chicago to NY daily for 400 pax and their cars. Perhaps if it were run as a day train, that would make a difference.

I don't know if California - Washington State has that level of migratory activity either. Both are rather temperate year 'round. I don't know of a "Snow Bird" pattern of Washingtonians fleeing to Southern California for the Winter. I could be wrong, though, since I've never really assessed that market.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Guest]

Before Amtrak ran the service, when Auto-Train was a private company, they expanded by creating a second route from Louisville to Sanford. This turned out to be a mistake and the route cost the company millions of dollars, hastening their ultimate demise, ...

That sounds like the exact reason Amtrak would do it; the potential to loose millions of dollars.

 

[Tony]

Where else do such migratory patterns occur? I think the only other is between Chicago and NY. But that's a lot shorter route than Lorton to Sanford, and there are so many more places in between that makes frequent stops more desireable than non stop Chicago to NY daily for 400 pax and their cars. Perhaps if it were run as a day train, that would make a difference.
I don't know if California - Washington State has that level of migratory activity either. Both are rather temperate year 'round. I don't know of a "Snow Bird" pattern of Washingtonians fleeing to Southern California for the Winter. I could be wrong, though, since I've never really assessed that market.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I think that is a very good point.

The current route works, because there are many potential travelers who stay in FL for long periods of time. Long enough that it is financially beneficial to take one's car with you, rather than rent. In other words, with some rare exceptions, week-long vacationers would find renting a car in FL cheaper.

IMHO, it is really a unique "mind set" for people living in the Northeast, to temporarily move to their 2nd homes in FL, rather than just simply move there permanently. Possibly strong ethic-based ties to family and community?

Where else in the USA are there substantial number of 2nd homes, equal to those in FL? And where do those 2nd home owners have their 1st home?

 

[colobok]

This has been pounded to death in other threads, but the conclusion I have come to is that for the Auto Train to work, you have to have a route short enough to make daily non-stop round trips with enough time for basic maintenance, loading and unloading at either end, and schedule pad to be successful. In addition, you have to place that defined trip time (mileage is not as important as is a guaranteed trip time) in between MAJOR human migratory routes. That's why the Auto Train today works - it's a 17 hour trip between the heavily populated NE and the heavily populated SE.

I think it's mistake. The current Auto Train route is too short. Most of people will prefer to drive WAS-ORL in one day than pay several hundred dollars one way for Auto Train. Auto Train will work better for real long distance. Driving CHI-ORL or West Coast to East Coast is really a pain.

 

[haolerider]

This has been pounded to death in other threads, but the conclusion I have come to is that for the Auto Train to work, you have to have a route short enough to make daily non-stop round trips with enough time for basic maintenance, loading and unloading at either end, and schedule pad to be successful. In addition, you have to place that defined trip time (mileage is not as important as is a guaranteed trip time) in between MAJOR human migratory routes. That's why the Auto Train today works - it's a 17 hour trip between the heavily populated NE and the heavily populated SE.

I think it's mistake. The current Auto Train route is too short. Most of people will prefer to drive WAS-ORL in one day than pay several hundred dollars one way for Auto Train. Auto Train will work better for real long distance. Driving CHI-ORL or West Coast to East Coast is really a pain.

Actually you could not be more incorrect. The Auto Train continues to be the most successful train in the Amtrak system and the demographic for that train does not "prefer to drive WAS-ORL in one day" - that is why they take Auto Train.

 

[AlanB]

This has been pounded to death in other threads, but the conclusion I have come to is that for the Auto Train to work, you have to have a route short enough to make daily non-stop round trips with enough time for basic maintenance, loading and unloading at either end, and schedule pad to be successful. In addition, you have to place that defined trip time (mileage is not as important as is a guaranteed trip time) in between MAJOR human migratory routes. That's why the Auto Train today works - it's a 17 hour trip between the heavily populated NE and the heavily populated SE.

I think it's mistake. The current Auto Train route is too short. Most of people will prefer to drive WAS-ORL in one day than pay several hundred dollars one way for Auto Train. Auto Train will work better for real long distance. Driving CHI-ORL or West Coast to East Coast is really a pain.

Actually you could not be more incorrect. The Auto Train continues to be the most successful train in the Amtrak system and the demographic for that train does not "prefer to drive WAS-ORL in one day" - that is why they take Auto Train.

Agreed Haolerider, the Auto train is the only long distance Amtrak train that actually covers its operating expenses. It makes a profit for Amtrak, at least above the rails. After factoring in other shared expenses, the AT still does loose money. But again, no other LD does better than the AT.

 

[VentureForth]

This has been pounded to death in other threads, but the conclusion I have come to is that for the Auto Train to work, you have to have a route short enough to make daily non-stop round trips with enough time for basic maintenance, loading and unloading at either end, and schedule pad to be successful. In addition, you have to place that defined trip time (mileage is not as important as is a guaranteed trip time) in between MAJOR human migratory routes. That's why the Auto Train today works - it's a 17 hour trip between the heavily populated NE and the heavily populated SE.

I think it's mistake. The current Auto Train route is too short. Most of people will prefer to drive WAS-ORL in one day than pay several hundred dollars one way for Auto Train. Auto Train will work better for real long distance. Driving CHI-ORL or West Coast to East Coast is really a pain.

There certainly is no evidence to back up the fact that the current Auto Train logistics is a mistake. Cutting out 855 miles of driving has a strong appeal to many folks - especially in the NE.

The problem with going longer is that there is a limit to going and going and going without getting off. Sure, many of US would enjoy being on the same train non stop for 36 hours or more.

Let's see what the problems would be with a transcontinental Auto Train. First, that 855 miles becomes 2800 miles. 17 hours on the train becomes 54 hours. 2 trainsets become 6. You might could institute a half way point in KC, MO. This would present a logistical nightmare - the 54 hours becomes 60 for switching. You could potentially sell out all seats to those from LA to KC and run an empty train to NY (You have to carry your full consist regardless of loading for your return trip). An alternative would be to have two segments - LA to KC and KC to NY, each with 3 trainsets. That would break it up a bit, but if the industrial engineering is done correctly, it could work. At that, it would only work if there were NEVER any problems. If it got 70 MPH passage and the respect of the Z Train, it would create its own marketplace.

 

[GG-1]

Just my 2 cents worth.

Aloha

My 2 cents is the reason the Auto train works is family travel where having the family car to get around to the various destinations. What other area has this kind of need?

 

[sunchaser]

This has been pounded to death in other threads, but the conclusion I have come to is that for the Auto Train to work, you have to have a route short enough to make daily non-stop round trips with enough time for basic maintenance, loading and unloading at either end, and schedule pad to be successful. In addition, you have to place that defined trip time (mileage is not as important as is a guaranteed trip time) in between MAJOR human migratory routes. That's why the Auto Train today works - it's a 17 hour trip between the heavily populated NE and the heavily populated SE. Really, the existing terminii are just about perfect. From Sanford, you have one hour access to Orlando or Daytona, you have 3 hour access to Tampa and about 5 hours to go to get to Miami. If the Northern terminus could be brought up closer to Baltimore or Newark, I think that ridership would increase dramatically, but it would be impossible to make the trip with two trainsets.
So, that all being said, is Louisville a practical terminus for another Auto Train route? I don't think that the flow of people from Chicago/ Indianapolis/ Cincinnati to the SE even comes close to the migratory pattern of those travelling from NY, NY, et al. Rader seemed to think there was 20 years ago, and who knows? Perhaps if the track conditions were NEC quality from Louisville to Sanford, then it could happen. But Auto Train can't afford to upgrade the Freight's track for that level of required service.

Where else do such migratory patterns occur? I think the only other is between Chicago and NY. But that's a lot shorter route than Lorton to Sanford, and there are so many more places in between that makes frequent stops more desireable than non stop Chicago to NY daily for 400 pax and their cars. Perhaps if it were run as a day train, that would make a difference.

I don't know if California - Washington State has that level of migratory activity either. Both are rather temperate year 'round. I don't know of a "Snow Bird" pattern of Washingtonians fleeing to Southern California for the Winter. I could be wrong, though, since I've never really assessed that market.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I know that there are Snowbirds that go to Arizona & Southern Utah from the northern & eastern states. I would assume there are also thos who go to SoCal for the same reason. There are also those who go from the southern states (such as Arizona & Texas) in summer up to northern climates.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Where else do such migratory patterns occur? I think the only other is between Chicago and NY. But that's a lot shorter route than Lorton to Sanford, and there are so many more places in between that makes frequent stops more desireable than non stop Chicago to NY daily for 400 pax and their cars. Perhaps if it were run as a day train, that would make a difference.

The pattern happens, sure, but there is no reason on earth to have a car in New York and very limited reason to have on in Chicago. In New York, you could say that having a car is an expensive and annoying liability, and your personal car is likely to banged up- people who are inexperience in driving in New York get into fenderbenders with impressive regularity. Better to bang up a rental. On the other hand, Florida's mass transit system is a laughable single commuter line, and nothing else that I can find outside of Miami, where you have a little rapid transit and a few bus routes. You need a car in Florida, one of many reason I'll never live there.

The current route works, because there are many potential travelers who stay in FL for long periods of time. Long enough that it is financially beneficial to take one's car with you, rather than rent. In other words, with some rare exceptions, week-long vacationers would find renting a car in FL cheaper.

Well, you can keep in mind the point that one driving their own car is infinitely preferable to driving a rental, atleast to some people. The reason I take the Auto Train is I drive an old Mercedes and comparatively every car I rent seems to have a throttle with no return spring, computerized brakes that operate with the predictability of a superball, window sills that come up to my ears, window pillars thicker than the columns on the Parthenon, and seats designed to allow a jockey to drive the thing on a race track so heavy is the side bolstering. I'd rather drive my own car, and I'm willing to pay a considerable amount for that privilege.