New Consist Arrangement forSilver Service and the Crescent

[Guest]

Did you actually read the first post in this topic? :unsure:
This wasn't done to eliminate engine horn noise for sleeping car pax, if it was they'd be doing it on the western trains too. It was done to solve a safety issue associated with the single level dining cars that have no external doors that can be used to evacuate passengers in an emergency.

Actually, I read one of your own initial posts.

You'll probably only hear it when the train is on a curve and the sound carries better.
As for the ride, if you're in the very last sleeping car, then it could be a bit rougher than it would have been had Amtrak not changed things.

 

[AlanB]

Did you actually read the first post in this topic? :unsure:
This wasn't done to eliminate engine horn noise for sleeping car pax, if it was they'd be doing it on the western trains too. It was done to solve a safety issue associated with the single level dining cars that have no external doors that can be used to evacuate passengers in an emergency.

Actually, I read one of your own initial posts.

You'll probably only hear it when the train is on a curve and the sound carries better.
As for the ride, if you're in the very last sleeping car, then it could be a bit rougher than it would have been had Amtrak not changed things.

Yes, but nowhere in that post did I state that the horn noise was the reason for moving the sleepers to the rear. All I did was answer a question about whether one would hear the horn thanks to the switch.

 

[Grandma B]

Since the "why" thread has been closed, I just wanted to add my input to the new Silver Meteor Viewliner consist. We just returned home on Sunday from WPB. I vote to have the sleepers returned to the front of the train. The ride was completely different with the sleepers in the rear on both ways. Seems there's alot more sway. With the sleepers in front, the ride seemed more solid in 2007 except for some bad tracks. If people complained about the sound of the horn with the Viewliners in the front, I was a happy camper since I could still hear it at all the southern crossings. Since sound does travel, when the horn is blown, the sound travels all the way down to the rear of the train. Is there a phone number I can call to lodge a complaint?? I'd like to see the Viewliners back in the front of the consist.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Since the "why" thread has been closed, I just wanted to add my input to the new Silver Meteor Viewliner consist. We just returned home on Sunday from WPB. I vote to have the sleepers returned to the front of the train. The ride was completely different with the sleepers in the rear on both ways. Seems there's alot more sway. With the sleepers in front, the ride seemed more solid in 2007 except for some bad tracks. If people complained about the sound of the horn with the Viewliners in the front, I was a happy camper since I could still hear it at all the southern crossings. Since sound does travel, when the horn is blown, the sound travels all the way down to the rear of the train. Is there a phone number I can call to lodge a complaint?? I'd like to see the Viewliners back in the front of the consist.

Please discuss this topic here.

 

[pennyk]

I agree with you. I rode the Silver Meteor North to NYP from Orlando and South from WAS to Orlando in June and I was extremely disappointed that the sleepers were in the rear. I phoned customer service. I think the phone number is used was the main number 800-872-7245. The person with whom I spoke never mentioned that it was a safety issue - she merely said that the reason for the change was that sleeper passengers were complaining about the whistle noise.

If it is actually a safety issue, then I will not complain anymore.

 

[Grandma B]

I agree with you. I rode the Silver Meteor North to NYP from Orlando and South from WAS to Orlando in June and I was extremely disappointed that the sleepers were in the rear. I phoned customer service. I think the phone number is used was the main number 800-872-7245. The person with whom I spoke never mentioned that it was a safety issue - she merely said that the reason for the change was that sleeper passengers were complaining about the whistle noise.
If it is actually a safety issue, then I will not complain anymore.

What is the safety issue? :huh:

 

[Grandma B]

Since the "why" thread has been closed, I just wanted to add my input to the new Silver Meteor Viewliner consist. We just returned home on Sunday from WPB. I vote to have the sleepers returned to the front of the train. The ride was completely different with the sleepers in the rear on both ways. Seems there's alot more sway. With the sleepers in front, the ride seemed more solid in 2007 except for some bad tracks. If people complained about the sound of the horn with the Viewliners in the front, I was a happy camper since I could still hear it at all the southern crossings. Since sound does travel, when the horn is blown, the sound travels all the way down to the rear of the train. Is there a phone number I can call to lodge a complaint?? I'd like to see the Viewliners back in the front of the consist.

Please discuss this topic here.

The reason I didn't post to that thread was the last post on there is April 28th. The most recent thread on the issue was "closed" as of 9:31 A.M this morning.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I agree with you. I rode the Silver Meteor North to NYP from Orlando and South from WAS to Orlando in June and I was extremely disappointed that the sleepers were in the rear. I phoned customer service. I think the phone number is used was the main number 800-872-7245. The person with whom I spoke never mentioned that it was a safety issue - she merely said that the reason for the change was that sleeper passengers were complaining about the whistle noise.
If it is actually a safety issue, then I will not complain anymore.

What is the safety issue? :huh:

Emergency exits. Single level lounges don't have vestibules with doors. By switching the cars to the back you put the sleepers (which do have vestibules) against the lounge car offering an exit that would otherwise not be there.

If you just flipped sleepers around there would still be a car with only one end with an emergency exit door. With the current arrangement, each car has an exit on each end.

Think of it this way-- if a train derailed and the one end was on fire then you want the other end to have an exit to the train. If you have no exits, you're in bad shape. If you have one exit you better hope that one exit is on the side of the train that isn't on fire. With exits on both sides it gives the best option in case of emergency.

All of this has been discussed here.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Since the "why" thread has been closed, I just wanted to add my input to the new Silver Meteor Viewliner consist. We just returned home on Sunday from WPB. I vote to have the sleepers returned to the front of the train. The ride was completely different with the sleepers in the rear on both ways. Seems there's alot more sway. With the sleepers in front, the ride seemed more solid in 2007 except for some bad tracks. If people complained about the sound of the horn with the Viewliners in the front, I was a happy camper since I could still hear it at all the southern crossings. Since sound does travel, when the horn is blown, the sound travels all the way down to the rear of the train. Is there a phone number I can call to lodge a complaint?? I'd like to see the Viewliners back in the front of the consist.

Please discuss this topic here.

The reason I didn't post to that thread was the last post on there is April 28th. The most recent thread on the issue was "closed" as of 9:31 A.M this morning.

It's okay to bring up the issue in an old thread if you have something to add-- it happens all the time. The mods will come along and merge topics together, but keeping all discussions of an issue in one thread you keep all information in one place for easy reference.

 

[MrFSS]

Since the "why" thread has been closed, I just wanted to add my input to the new Silver Meteor Viewliner consist. We just returned home on Sunday from WPB. I vote to have the sleepers returned to the front of the train. The ride was completely different with the sleepers in the rear on both ways. Seems there's alot more sway. With the sleepers in front, the ride seemed more solid in 2007 except for some bad tracks. If people complained about the sound of the horn with the Viewliners in the front, I was a happy camper since I could still hear it at all the southern crossings. Since sound does travel, when the horn is blown, the sound travels all the way down to the rear of the train. Is there a phone number I can call to lodge a complaint?? I'd like to see the Viewliners back in the front of the consist.

Please discuss this topic here.

The reason I didn't post to that thread was the last post on there is April 28th. The most recent thread on the issue was "closed" as of 9:31 A.M this morning.

It's okay to bring up the issue in an old thread if you have something to add-- it happens all the time. The mods will come along and merge topics together, but keeping all discussions of an issue in one thread you keep all information in one place for easy reference.

They are now merged.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Thanks

 

[MattW]

What would be the problem with putting the baggage behind the Viewliners then the locomotives behind that, then flipping the seats in the Amfleets (so it would actually be in front of the Viewliners but whatever)? The vestibule arrangement doesn't change, and Viewliners are back up front.

 

[Ryan]

Are you talking about leading with the sleepers and operating in push configuration?

You'd need cab cars for the front!

I'm having trouble visualzing your suggestion.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Are you talking about leading with the sleepers and operating in push configuration?
You'd need cab cars for the front!

I'm having trouble visualzing your suggestion.

He's being sardonic.

 

[printman2000]

Seems the issue of where vestibules are is really a non factor with this. They did not have to move the sleepers to the back to get the vestibule alignment they wanted.

If I am thinking straight here, it would seem you could flip the entire consist (less the baggage) from how it is now, have the sleepers up front and still have the vestibules how they want them.

 

[Grandma B]

May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?

 

[cpamtfan]

I agree with you. I rode the Silver Meteor North to NYP from Orlando and South from WAS to Orlando in June and I was extremely disappointed that the sleepers were in the rear. I phoned customer service. I think the phone number is used was the main number 800-872-7245. The person with whom I spoke never mentioned that it was a safety issue - she merely said that the reason for the change was that sleeper passengers were complaining about the whistle noise.
If it is actually a safety issue, then I will not complain anymore.

What is the safety issue? :huh:

Emergency exits. Single level lounges don't have vestibules with doors. By switching the cars to the back you put the sleepers (which do have vestibules) against the lounge car offering an exit that would otherwise not be there.

If you just flipped sleepers around there would still be a car with only one end with an emergency exit door. With the current arrangement, each car has an exit on each end.

Think of it this way-- if a train derailed and the one end was on fire then you want the other end to have an exit to the train. If you have no exits, you're in bad shape. If you have one exit you better hope that one exit is on the side of the train that isn't on fire. With exits on both sides it gives the best option in case of emergency.

All of this has been discussed here.

Both Amfleet II and Horizon lounges/dinettes have vestibules, its just that the Heritage Diners don't have any doors or exits. Maybe if CSX would take better care of their tracks, then the ride would be better. The ride may also differ by car, some cars might have new trucks or wheels, why another might have flatspots, etc.

cpamtfan-Peter

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?

Here you go:

Ok, I wanna here from you how a conductor (put yourself in his/her shoes) should handle this issue. As a T&E railroader by profession, I already know what the solution should be, here (even though I am concerned mostly with freight railroading). I have already observed my passenger T&E peers implementing the proper solutions to this issue.
I don't disagree with you in the respect with the help situation, however. Prior to Amtrak switching the consists to the "wrong way" about ten years ago, we had three T&E crew members in the back instead of just the two as we do now. So it would be nice for that third assistant conductor/flagman to be brought back into service. But it would also be nice if Amtrak would restore the dining car and lounge car to the staffing levels of yesteryear as well!

But the bottom line is, it is what it is! And there has been no further safety issue created here. It merely changes the the way the crew must work the train. So let's hear from you why you believe this is a safety issue when in fact safety for the passengers and crew has been increased with the solution Amtrak has implemented!

Safety takes precedence over everything in railroading (at least on my train or tour of duty)!

OBS gone freight...

 

[printman2000]

May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?

Besides the Silvers, the Crescent, Cardinal and Lake Shore Limited are the only Viewliner trains. The Crescent got the change along with the Silvers. The Cardinal has always had the sleeper on the rear (at least for a long time). The LSL had them on the front until the Boston through sleeper. It now has one sleeper up front (Boston) and two on the rear (NY).

 

[MattW]

Are you talking about leading with the sleepers and operating in push configuration?
You'd need cab cars for the front!

I'm having trouble visualzing your suggestion.

He's being sardonic.

Um no...Notice I said "then it'd actually be the front" indicating the locomotives would be the front. I only said it the way I did to make sure it was clearly solving the problem instead of just the old broken record of "just put the Viewliners back."

 

[Grandma B]

May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?

Here you go:

Ok, I wanna here from you how a conductor (put yourself in his/her shoes) should handle this issue. As a T&E railroader by profession, I already know what the solution should be, here (even though I am concerned mostly with freight railroading). I have already observed my passenger T&E peers implementing the proper solutions to this issue.
I don't disagree with you in the respect with the help situation, however. Prior to Amtrak switching the consists to the "wrong way" about ten years ago, we had three T&E crew members in the back instead of just the two as we do now. So it would be nice for that third assistant conductor/flagman to be brought back into service. But it would also be nice if Amtrak would restore the dining car and lounge car to the staffing levels of yesteryear as well!

But the bottom line is, it is what it is! And there has been no further safety issue created here. It merely changes the the way the crew must work the train. So let's hear from you why you believe this is a safety issue when in fact safety for the passengers and crew has been increased with the solution Amtrak has implemented!

Safety takes precedence over everything in railroading (at least on my train or tour of duty)!

OBS gone freight...

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Grandma B]

May I ask a dumb question? :unsure: How long has Amtrak been running the Viewliners at the front of the consist??? It's been 2 years since I last rode Amtrak, why all of a sudden two years later is there a safety issue with the Viewliners? Where are the sleepers positioned in all the other Amtrak trains, other than the Silver's?

Besides the Silvers, the Crescent, Cardinal and Lake Shore Limited are the only Viewliner trains. The Crescent got the change along with the Silvers. The Cardinal has always had the sleeper on the rear (at least for a long time). The LSL had them on the front until the Boston through sleeper. It now has one sleeper up front (Boston) and two on the rear (NY).

Thank you for your reply about which trains run the Viewliners.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Are you talking about leading with the sleepers and operating in push configuration?
You'd need cab cars for the front!

I'm having trouble visualzing your suggestion.

He's being sardonic.

Um no...Notice I said "then it'd actually be the front" indicating the locomotives would be the front. I only said it the way I did to make sure it was clearly solving the problem instead of just the old broken record of "just put the Viewliners back."

Except it doesn't clearly solve the problem... While on the surface it seems to work, most of the railroad employees on this board deny that it would work and have praised Amtrak for this decision. I trust them.

 

[printman2000]

Emergency exits. Single level lounges don't have vestibules with doors. By switching the cars to the back you put the sleepers (which do have vestibules) against the lounge car offering an exit that would otherwise not be there.
If you just flipped sleepers around there would still be a car with only one end with an emergency exit door. With the current arrangement, each car has an exit on each end.

I thought the dining car was next to the sleepers, not the lounge?

If lounge cars and dining cars do not have vestibules, there is no way all cars can have an exit on each end. I am just not following the "vestibule" argument.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Emergency exits. Single level lounges don't have vestibules with doors. By switching the cars to the back you put the sleepers (which do have vestibules) against the lounge car offering an exit that would otherwise not be there.
If you just flipped sleepers around there would still be a car with only one end with an emergency exit door. With the current arrangement, each car has an exit on each end.

I thought the dining car was next to the sleepers, not the lounge?

If lounge cars and dining cars do not have vestibules, there is no way all cars can have an exit on each end. I am just not following the "vestibule" argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhVxI4IZWBc

I may have been fooled by the shape-- that's the new diner right there, notice there are no doors.

Watch the consist:

P42

P42

Bag

Coach-door

Coach-door

Coach-door

Coach-door

Lounge-door

Diner

door- Sleeper

door- Sleeper

The last sleeper doesn't need a second door because the last door is the exit in and of itself... the same applies to the front coach which can access the bag with very big side doors.