Only possible additional platform, and that too for short trains would be the diagonal platform. Other than that there is absolutely no space for any additional platforms down there.I like the general concept behind Moynihan, but I think that does very little for the transit around the area. The only thing is, I think that by producing a train station under Moynihan, Amtrak might be able to expand the train station's capacity by placing some platforms west of the existing platforms. It'll never happen, but its a thought.
Yeah, you've never seen it crowded then. The LIRR section is the worst with crowded, but even the Amtrak side of things can get pretty crowded during rush hour. Add to that the low ceilings and things get pretty claustrophobic. It would be great to enter the nations biggest city by train in a nice facility.Granted, we're not native NYC residents. But as tourists going in, around, and through Penn Station it never appeared crowded. I'm a little surprised that there's talk about expanding Amtrak facilities by spending all that money to move to the Moynihan location. What's wrong with it the way it is today? :unsure:
If built, it is a reuse of the former Farley Post Office building, just to the west of Penn Station. The track/plaform infrastructure of Penn Station extends under this former Post Office, since it was built in the day when mail moved by rail.OK, for us dumb out-of-towners, where is Moynihan Station in relationship to NY's Penn Station?
GML, How would the proposed station access the existing tracks? Would access be through the existing Penn Station concourse? Or would there be a new alignment of tracks under the new station?I like the general concept behind Moynihan, but I think that does very little for the transit around the area. The only thing is, I think that by producing a train station under Moynihan, Amtrak might be able to expand the train station's capacity by placing some platforms west of the existing platforms. It'll never happen, but its a thought.
:lol:GML,
There is simply no space in the current track configuration to allow for more platforms or to reconfigure things. Building upon my post above, here's how it works out now. The two tunnels under the North River essentially pop up right at 10th Avenue. As the tracks cross under 10th Ave you hit the first two switches that start what eventually becomes 6 throat tracks numbered 1X - 6X. This is completed just before the midpoint between 10th & 9th Aves.
Just on the other side of the midpoint, after you've barely had time to take a breath, one hits the first switch leading to the outermost of two ladder tracks. That outermost ladder track runs from literally just feet shy of the midpoint between 9th & 10th Aves all the way to 8th Ave. It reaches track #1 just after it has crossed under 8th Avenue. It's so tight that the inner ladder track does not serve track one at all. A train headed to/from track #1 can only use the outer ladder track. Lengthening any platform would push those ladder tracks right into the mouth of the tunnels.
And of course there is the issue of how does one build two new ladder tracks without cutting off access to the station. They can't afford to lose even one track, much less half the station at one time.
Additionally, moving the ladder tracks were it even feasible, now shortens the 10 or so yard tracks that NJT has available to them reducing daytime storage or at least forcing shorter trains. It's also quite likely that lengthening the plats would prevent track #8 from reaching the Empire Connection tunnel, reducing the number of tracks to just 3 that can get into the tunnel. And Amtrak likes to put the Lake Shore on track #8 whenever possible, as that side of platform #4 is a bit longer than the track #7 side is due to the tapers for the ladder tracks on either end.
They did indeed consider trying to add a lower level, that the new tunnels would have then linked to.As an alternative, what would be the engineering feasibility to adding a second (lower) track level to Penn Station, somewhat in the manner of the LIRR extension into GCT?Once completed, it would allow a section by section revamping of the current level to perhaps remove a couple of tracks and make the platforms wider and more accessible.
It's going to be a lot more than just a pretty edifice to enter the station. The Amtrak waiting areas, ticketing areas, boarding gates etc. are all supposed to be in the new station. The ceiling will be very tall and all glass a bit akin to the classic Penn Station.My understanding is that the basic platform layout is going to remain the same. I am unconvinced that it is impossible to add platforms with this new set up, but it is not in the plan and most people involved believe it to be impossible. Farley will, possibly provide a new set of entrances to those existing platforms, but I think it will primarily be a pretty edifice in which to enter the station, much like that of Chicago Union Station's Great Hall.
I was under the impression that the Post Office wanted to retain that still used retail portion of the building. It is probably the most photographed and famous post office in the world. Always the site of news crews televising last minute taxpayers on April 15th, and used as a general file shot for all matters pertaining to the Postal Service. It has been the site of innumerable films, etc.The Farley post office sits between 8th & 9th Avenues and between 31st & 33rd Streets. So in all cases, if one were standing in the current customer area of the Post office and the floor collapsed, you would either land on a track or a platform. And the customer area stretches the width of the post office between 31st & 33rd Street.
So if this plan actually goes get built, the "new Penn Station" will take over the current customer area of the post office as well as the area where the clerks currently work to assist those customers. Basically the new station will take up about half the distance from 8th Avenue to 9th Avenue.
Since the new tunnels won't connect with the existing Penn Station, there will be no affect on what you currently see in that diagram.Alan, thank for the diagram of the trackage at Penn Station. I have often wondered how the tracks flowed in and out of the station.Do you have any diagrams that will show how the tracks will flow with the new tunnel?
Well the LIRR and New Jersey Transit aren't going anywhere, they'll remain right where they are now. Especially the LIRR, which has its own level. We may see NJT expand into the current Amtrak area, and I'm not sure if Amtrak will totally abandon the current ticket area either, although they may reduce the number of windows. I'd expect to see perhaps some more food places show up on the upper level too, taking over some of the current waiting area most likely.If the new station is used... will parts of the current Penn Station still be used? Or will they be abandoned? (Or does anyone know yet?).
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