Passenger comfort

[Larry H.]

The sad part is many of us have complained about these conditions for many many years and you see what it gets us! Someone somewhere just doesn't have a priority for pride in the condition of the fleet. I doubt that most of those people that sit in the offices and receive the messages have even been in a sleeper let along eat in a diner?

 

[caravanman]

Woah...! Let's not get carried away! Topics like this seem to bring out extremes of views, so in the end both extremeties cancel each other out.

Stuff happens, though I have never seen it all over the walls as refered to above...

Part of the problem with some "jobs for life" organisations is that change is not encouraged.. The existing way of doing things is seen as the norm, and new recruits are "dumbed down" in order not to rock the boat. Bringing pride back into the organisation is hard, there can be a lot of inertia.

I am sure that I am the most "pinko" person on this board, so please don't confuse my remarks as being union bashing, they are not.. they are against a culture where change is seen as bad, and a funding system that denies Amtrak the funds to operate the train service the population deserves..

Eddie

 

[Steve4031]

I did experience bc class like the OP several years back. I assumed that everything out of Chicago with bc now had the 2 and 1 seating with plenty of leg room. If I was expecting that, and got what the OP described, I would be unhappy too.

 

[MikeM]

During the Amtrak town hall meeting a month or so ago, the topic of window cleaning came up several times. The response we got from Amtrak management was that proper window cleaning was labor intensive, and that they tried to keep cars "reasonably clean" but shiny windows weren't a priority.

What bugs me about that answer is that later in the day we saw all these new ads which played up watching the scenery from the train. Which, I might add, is something of a challenge when you can't see through the grime on your window. Last year when my son and I traveled on the Coast Starlight, I was frustrated to notice that the observation car windows, in both the PPC and sightseer lounge, went from reasonably clean to brown right at the roofline. Disgusting. Yes, I know money has been tight, but when I drive my car through the car wash the windows come out looking, if not perfect, at least serviceable. Maybe spending a bit more on car wash equipment or repairs could address lots of these issues, without having to put teams of squeegee operators at each train, which we all know would never happen thanks to the cost and time required.

Ok, I'll get off my high horse....

 

[Trogdor]

Living now in Michigan and when riding the Amtrak from Kalamazoo to Chicago, round trip of course! As for added comfort to the wife and daughter traveling with me, I purchased Club Car reserved seats for 3.
Concern 1. Seating arrangement when traveling on the N.E. corridor, such Club car seating is wide seats and added leg room. This was not the fact on the car we rode, as all the Club car reserved seat were shoved quite tight forward allowing major space for some baggage items which did not pay the extra fare.

Concern 2. The seating arrangement was similar to that in standard coach, two adjoining seats on each side of the center aisle. Sadly, the reserved seating placed the wife three rows ahead and the daughter behind, as the man sleeping next to me kept curling up and using both seats for his better comfort whenever I got up to get us drinks or food. Again the seating of Club Car is at an extra fare and should by common reasoning be as well of added comfort and not less. Ultimately on our trip homeward we chose to sit in standard coach class cars as they had nice roomy seating.

Which trains did you ride? Lately, trains 364/365 (Blue Water service) have been operating with Superliners, and thus wouldn't have different business class vs. coach seating. During the winter, trains 350/355 will often run with Superliners, and thus, also will not have business class.

The other trains (351, 352, 353, and 354) run single-level equipment with a 14-seat business class section in half of the cafe car (as does 350/355 when it has single-level cars). These cars have 2+1 seating, not 2+2. It's possible there may have been some equipment substitution because the regular club-dinette was bad-ordered. If that was the case, you'd be due a refund of your accommodation charge (and the conductor should have informed you of such).

Plus, the "reserved" seating wouldn't place you or your family in any specific seats. If those seats were the only ones that were available, then that's just because the other seats were already taken when you boarded.

I "know" you are just trying to help, and explain the "realities" of Amtrak as it is today, but your reply comes across as an "excuse" for Amtrak, and a "that's the way it is, now just learn to live with it-kind of attitude."

I LOVE the idea of at least going to the K-zoo city commission, and getting it on record. There is about a 0 in 100 chance of anything happening. But what would it take? Purchase of two commercial grade power-washers, someone to schedule the 'volunteers' to do the work, or use work release of work-fare participants. X-number of trains per day, (prolly don't have to do the same train-set over and over on each different run)

I ***KNOW*** that power washers aren't the preferred method to clean windows, and maybe some jerk would hit the trigger and position it in the wrong place and splash a passenger, or put an eye out, or something else un-thought of.

But I still LIKE the idea. "Kalamazoo, MI, where Every Amtrak Train Gets A Clear View" or some such Mktg bulls*h*i*t.

It's silly, stoopid ideas like THIS, that make people REMEMBER their trip. Genius, just genius. I know what **I'M** doing when I retire. I'm gonna wash me some Amtrak trains, even if Amtrak "dun't" want me too......

I'm not sure if I should be offended by your response, or if I should just assume that you didn't read a word of what I said. Please outline where I created an "excuse" for Amtrak.

I clearly stated that if there was an equipment substitution, the OP should be entitled to a refund of the accommodation charge.

Nowhere did I mention anything about the cleanliness of the trains, which is what your entire response seems to be about.

In fact, the OP listed two "concerns" and both were about seating configurations. Those are what I attempted to address (and having tracked Michigan service consists off-and-on for the last few weeks, I did my best to try and even figure out what the heck it is he's talking about, since the consists I've seen have all had the 2+1 Club-Dinettes, with the exceptions I had already noted above).

The issues of train washing were touched on in the rambling that followed, but not clearly labeled as concerns, per se (and, quite frankly, having read the rest of the OP's message several times, I can't make heads or tails of what he's actually saying).

The only thing I can sort-of understand is that he doesn't think the "club" (business class, I guess) seats are as comfortable as they are on the NEC, and if that's the case, then the only explanation I can think of is a one-off equipment substitution, as otherwise the Club-Dinettes operated in the Midwest are identical to the Club-Dinettes operated in the NEC.

He also says that the standard coach had "nice, roomy seating" on his return. He could have been on 365, operating with Superliners (he doesn't say), but otherwise, I can't think of how someone could find a regular Horizon coach to offer better seating than business class anything.

 

[jis]

The only thing I can sort-of understand is that he doesn't think the "club" (business class, I guess) seats are as comfortable as they are on the NEC, and if that's the case, then the only explanation I can think of is a one-off equipment substitution, as otherwise the Club-Dinettes operated in the Midwest are identical to the Club-Dinettes operated in the NEC.
He also says that the standard coach had "nice, roomy seating" on his return. He could have been on 365, operating with Superliners (he doesn't say), but otherwise, I can't think of how someone could find a regular Horizon coach to offer better seating than business class anything.

In Amfleet equipment there are two types of Business Class. There are those that used to be called Club-Dinettes, which have 2-1 seating and there are ex-Metroliner cars which have 2-2 seating with footrests. I believe that the ex-Metroliner cars are exclusively used in Northeast Regionals and on certain trains that run medium distance originating in the NEC, typically New York. As an example the Carolinian and the Lynchburg Regional comes to mind. In spite of being 2-2 seating it is amazing how full those cars run on Northeast Regionals. The seats in these cars are definitely more comfortable than on the regular Amfleet I Coaches.

I am not familiar with Horizon Business Class accommodation so could not comment on those. And the of course there is Acela Business Class which is also 2-2 seating but now progressively with faux-leather seats.

As far as Superliner/Surfliner goes, the only Business Class I am aware of is the Pacific Business Class that run on various California Corridor trains.

And then there is Business Class on Talgos that are again 2-1 seating.

 

[Larry H.]

During the Amtrak town hall meeting a month or so ago, the topic of window cleaning came up several times. The response we got from Amtrak management was that proper window cleaning was labor intensive, and that they tried to keep cars "reasonably clean" but shiny windows weren't a priority.
What bugs me about that answer is that later in the day we saw all these new ads which played up watching the scenery from the train. Which, I might add, is something of a challenge when you can't see through the grime on your window. Last year when my son and I traveled on the Coast Starlight, I was frustrated to notice that the observation car windows, in both the PPC and sightseer lounge, went from reasonably clean to brown right at the roofline. Disgusting. Yes, I know money has been tight, but when I drive my car through the car wash the windows come out looking, if not perfect, at least serviceable. Maybe spending a bit more on car wash equipment or repairs could address lots of these issues, without having to put teams of squeegee operators at each train, which we all know would never happen thanks to the cost and time required.

Ok, I'll get off my high horse....

Oh but remember by some they have never seen a dirty window! Right!

 

[Mackensen]

The only thing I can sort-of understand is that he doesn't think the "club" (business class, I guess) seats are as comfortable as they are on the NEC, and if that's the case, then the only explanation I can think of is a one-off equipment substitution, as otherwise the Club-Dinettes operated in the Midwest are identical to the Club-Dinettes operated in the NEC.
He also says that the standard coach had "nice, roomy seating" on his return. He could have been on 365, operating with Superliners (he doesn't say), but otherwise, I can't think of how someone could find a regular Horizon coach to offer better seating than business class anything.

In Amfleet equipment there are two types of Business Class. There are those that used to be called Club-Dinettes, which have 2-1 seating and there are ex-Metroliner cars which have 2-2 seating with footrests. I believe that the ex-Metroliner cars are exclusively used in Northeast Regionals and on certain trains that run medium distance originating in the NEC, typically New York. As an example the Carolinian and the Lynchburg Regional comes to mind. In spite of being 2-2 seating it is amazing how full those cars run on Northeast Regionals. The seats in these cars are definitely more comfortable than on the regular Amfleet I Coaches.

I am not familiar with Horizon Business Class accommodation so could not comment on those. And the of course there is Acela Business Class which is also 2-2 seating but now progressively with faux-leather seats.

As far as Superliner/Surfliner goes, the only Business Class I am aware of is the Pacific Business Class that run on various California Corridor trains.

And then there is Business Class on Talgos that are again 2-1 seating.

The typical arrangement on the Wolverine is an Amfleet half "Business class" half cafe, then Horizon coaches. I can't for the life of me remember the seating arrangement (I should, I've taken it enough) but you've definitely got more space than you would in the Horizon coach. I can also confirm that the Blue Waters are still running with Superliner equipment--I got some pretty good pictures of the one that rolled through Kalamazoo yesterday evening. Cabbage F40PH leading five coaches with a Genesis providing power.

 

[AAARGH!]

I "know" you are just trying to help, and explain the "realities" of Amtrak as it is today, but your reply comes across as an "excuse" for Amtrak, and a "that's the way it is, now just learn to live with it-kind of attitude."
I LOVE the idea of at least going to the K-zoo city commission, and getting it on record. There is about a 0 in 100 chance of anything happening. But what would it take? Purchase of two commercial grade power-washers, someone to schedule the 'volunteers' to do the work, or use work release of work-fare participants. X-number of trains per day, (prolly don't have to do the same train-set over and over on each different run)

I ***KNOW*** that power washers aren't the preferred method to clean windows, and maybe some jerk would hit the trigger and position it in the wrong place and splash a passenger, or put an eye out, or something else un-thought of.

But I still LIKE the idea. "Kalamazoo, MI, where Every Amtrak Train Gets A Clear View" or some such Mktg bulls*h*i*t.

It's silly, stoopid ideas like THIS, that make people REMEMBER their trip. Genius, just genius. I know what **I'M** doing when I retire. I'm gonna wash me some Amtrak trains, even if Amtrak "dun't" want me too......

I just took a round trip on the Wolverine this past weekend. The train going from PNT to CHI had reasonably clean windows. They had been washed at some point in recent history.

However, the return train from CHI to PNT was the worst I have ever seen. I could barely see out the BC windows. When the sun shined in my window, I could not see anything bu the dirt on the window. It is obvious the entire exterior had not been washed in probably weeks! :angry:

Battle Creek is a crew base / crew change. If they are going to do a washing, it should be there. It won't happen.

 

[ryangs]

In Amfleet equipment there are two types of Business Class. There are those that used to be called Club-Dinettes, which have 2-1 seating and there are ex-Metroliner cars which have 2-2 seating with footrests. I believe that the ex-Metroliner cars are exclusively used in Northeast Regionals and on certain trains that run medium distance originating in the NEC, typically New York. As an example the Carolinian and the Lynchburg Regional comes to mind. In spite of being 2-2 seating it is amazing how full those cars run on Northeast Regionals. The seats in these cars are definitely more comfortable than on the regular Amfleet I Coaches.
I am not familiar with Horizon Business Class accommodation so could not comment on those.

I used to ride the Blue Water and Wolverine to Kalamazoo from 2004 to 2008, and business class was always half of an Amfleet or Horizon, behind the cafe. The Amfleet version was much more common, and was a better ride. The lighting in the Horizon version was very bright and harsh, and the whole thing seemed like it had been rebuilt and redesigned with the business class seating being a mere afterthought. I seem to recall one that didn't have overhead luggage racks.

What always confused me were the occasional Amfleet coaches on these trains that said 'businessclass' on the outside, even though they were clearly just regular coach seating on the inside. Aside from the dimmer lighting, they seemed to be identical to Horizon coaches, and I figured the 'businessclass' paint was an error. Am I to believe that these were actually business class cars on the NEC, and that regular coaches there have less legroom?

I notice amtrak.com is not selling business class seats on the Blue Water. Have Superliners become permanent on that train? The Wolverine is still mostly Horizon, though?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

This has always been a thorn in my side too. I have no compassion for those who constantly make excuses for trains that are tattered, beat up, torn seats, strewn trash bags everywhere, dirty corners in the bathrooms and other cars. And yes those really disappointing windows.

Actually, I've never seen any of the problem that you've described, or should I say "imagined."

The amazing thing is that I've never seen an Amfleet seat with a torn cover and that 30 year old cars are remarkable clean and show very little wear for their age.

As far as dirty windows, I'd challenge anyone to compare their own car's side windows to those of an Amtrak coach. In the middle of the winter, is your car dirty on the outside? Actually, I'd wager that the inside of an Amtrak coach is far cleaner and tidier than the interior of 99.9% of the personal automobiles on the highway.

Your comment hardly needs comments as its as far out as any I have seen. Even the most ardent amtrak supporter here will normally conclude that there are a lot of issues onboard and outside on may trains.

However since you insist.. Too bad I didn't take photos.

Last business class trip to chicago on the Saluki which was last year, the backs of many of the seats were ripped or torn exposing the insides of the cushion. The window curtains were hanging with half the connectors missing.

My first lakeshore trip back in the 80s had torn seats though out the dinner with cushions falling off the front of the benches. Trash bags dumped everywhere. On our last lakeshore trip the roomette I had the curtains to block the view in to the room neither lined up in a way which would allow for decent privacy. The light on the wall wouldn't work and the bulb fell out in my hand when I tired to turn in on. Oh yes, the first lakeshore trip on boarding the sleeper my room had muddy foot prints on top of the seat. My moms bedroom had rigged latches and everything rattle so loud you couldn't hear above it when the train was riding roughly. The bathroom door banged shut constantly due to a faulty latch keeping her awake. The diner had a table in the center of one section removed and it had boxes stacked three high instead. A lovely professional site for sure. Water dripped in the though the covers between the sleepers making the floor dangerously slippery.

The toilets on the CZ refused to work from Denver to California. The rooms had duct tape on all the cabinets and doors trying to keep them from banging.

Not to mention the numerous times the cars were either so hot or so cold as to be nearly unbearable, seemingly unrelated to outside temperatures.

Many cars have obvious crud along the walls of the rest rooms and up the walls.

The windows on the CZ both trips I took it out of Chicago had cloudy windows which detracted big time from the view. The dome on the Capitol Limited was so dirty you couldn't see though the front of it.

I could probably go on for pages as I am sure others could..

But as I said when I worked that you have to be able to see dirt in order to clean it and some just don't see it.

all those are from the 80's which means HERITAGE CARS abused by the railroad amtrak got them from. i have yet to find a train TODAY that's a P.O.S. as for trash inside the train blame that on LAZY ASS conductors and on board staff who care more about when do i get paid so i can spend it. IF YOU WANT AMTRAK TO HAVE 100% NEW CARS EVERYTHING WORKING LIKE IT SHOULD FORK OVER THE MONEY. I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND A AUTOMOBILE WITH A MILLION MILES THAT'S IT 100% WORKING CONDITION.(SPACE SHUTTLE DOES NOT COUNT)

 

[Dutchrailnut]

since when is Conductor the cleaning lady ????

Trains are like pig pens, they become pig stys when you put the occupants in.

 

[Jim G.]

On my recent Amtrak tour, I resorted to cleaning my Zephyr windows myself. The windows on the left are my roomette, after a quick clean. You will see the dirt on the others, at Emmeryville, just before the train departs on its "scenic" trip through the Sierra Nevada and Rocky Mountains. Yes, it is a lower level roomette..!

Mind You, they paint some sort of heat reflective yellow gunk onto the train windows in India.. it's like looking at the scenery through a sandstorm!

More pics and trip report: English rail hobo.. (following days links at top right of each page in red)

Cheers,

Eddie

What did you use to clean your windows ???

 

[Ryan]

What always confused me were the occasional Amfleet coaches on these trains that said 'businessclass' on the outside, even though they were clearly just regular coach seating on the inside. Aside from the dimmer lighting, they seemed to be identical to Horizon coaches, and I figured the 'businessclass' paint was an error. Am I to believe that these were actually business class cars on the NEC, and that regular coaches there have less legroom?

Yes, this is true - BC on the regionals are mostly 2x2 seating with 60 seats per car, as opposed to coach which have 70 seats in each car.
Business class cars have road numbers in the 81xxx series, Coaches are 82xxx.

 

[frj1983]

I have an odd question here and I don't want to insult anyone's integrity, but are you sure it's dirt on the windows??

Here is why I ask this question:

I ride Metra to work and home every day and I note that when riding in some of the older cars, it is also difficult to see out the windows. One would think it is dirt (and there is some of that), but there are also hundreds of minute scratches on the windows which in combination with the dirt, making it really difficult to see outside. Some windows are so bad it's like looking through permanent fog. Where do the scratches come from? I would imagine from washing (occasionally), weathering, etc.

I believe Amtrak and Metra use the same company for their windows (lexan-spelling??) or something else (please correct me here). So window replacement could be problematic too.

I'm not making excuses for unclean windows, interiors, etc. But I do want to point out what my friend who works for Amtrak maintenance told me about a year ago. They have 1/3 fewer employees to clean and repair the equipment than they did 5 years ago...now I think he may be exagerating a bit, but if there is even some truth in that statement, then I could see how human beings will cut corners to get equipment out on the road. Again that's not an excuse because something does need to be done better...perhaps their whole system on how they clean cars needs to be re-examined and changed for the better?

 

[MikeM]

I have an odd question here and I don't want to insult anyone's integrity, but are you sure it's dirt on the windows??

I do think you're on to something there. I seem to recall the windows are a sandwich of Lexan and Glass - Lexan scratches easier than Glass. So if they use a brush type cleaner to wash the cars, that could over time result in small scratches on the windows.

Still, I think the bulk of things you see is dirt. I've done the same thing as the other poster when I had a lower level roomette, going go far as to take windex wipes with me to clean the windows at stops. (Made some friends in other lower level roomettes that way also...). I do think cutbacks over the past decade has left Amtrak making hard decisions, and housekeeping has been one of the things to suffer. At least we are not seeing the issues they had ten years ago with rodent infestation of older diners and passenger cars...

 

[oldtimer]

I have an odd question here and I don't want to insult anyone's integrity, but are you sure it's dirt on the windows??
Here is why I ask this question:

I ride Metra to work and home every day and I note that when riding in some of the older cars, it is also difficult to see out the windows. One would think it is dirt (and there is some of that), but there are also hundreds of minute scratches on the windows which in combination with the dirt, making it really difficult to see outside. Some windows are so bad it's like looking through permanent fog. Where do the scratches come from? I would imagine from washing (occasionally), weathering, etc.

I believe Amtrak and Metra use the same company for their windows (lexan-spelling??) or something else (please correct me here). So window replacement could be problematic too.

I'm not making excuses for unclean windows, interiors, etc. But I do want to point out what my friend who works for Amtrak maintenance told me about a year ago. They have 1/3 fewer employees to clean and repair the equipment than they did 5 years ago...now I think he may be exagerating a bit, but if there is even some truth in that statement, then I could see how human beings will cut corners to get equipment out on the road. Again that's not an excuse because something does need to be done better...perhaps their whole system on how they clean cars needs to be re-examined and changed for the better?

frj1983

Just a couple of comments:

For the first statement all of the cars(weather permitting) are run through a car wash system that I know at one time included large brushes that covered the entire carbody sides. These have created the thousands of micro scratches on each window. It would be an extremely labor and material cost intensive project to replace each scratched window. I have used a scratch removal polish personally on my motorcycle windshield and know that the attempt to use that on a railcar would be futile.

In regard to the manpower situation your friend gave you a possible understatement of the number of forces at least in Chicago. A better comparison is that the number of employees in certain crafts is less than 50% of the numbers from 15 years ago. This problem is being exacerbated by the major influx of retirements by the baby boomer's that comprise at least 50% of the current employees. This is a vast loss of knowledge and recent report by Amtrak's Inspector General spoke poorly of Amtrak's training especially of newly hired employees.

:angry: :huh: :angry:

PS In the picture from caravanman it also appears that the window on the left is much newer then that one on the right side on the picture. This can be seen by the rubber molding and the condition of the center dividing bar.

 

[arrow3]

I rode the Capitol Limited both ways last week. Both trains were very clean on the outside. My roomette windows were spotless on both trains (upper level).

 

[so cal dirt]

Living now in Michigan and when riding the Amtrak from Kalamazoo to Chicago, round trip of course! As for added comfort to the wife and daughter traveling with me, I purchased Club Car reserved seats for 3.
Concern 1. Seating arrangement when traveling on the N.E. corridor, such Club car seating is wide seats and added leg room. This was not the fact on the car we rode, as all the Club car reserved seat were shoved quite tight forward allowing major space for some baggage items which did not pay the extra fare.

Concern 2. The seating arrangement was similar to that in standard coach, two adjoining seats on each side of the center aisle. Sadly, the reserved seating placed the wife three rows ahead and the daughter behind, as the man sleeping next to me kept curling up and using both seats for his better comfort whenever I got up to get us drinks or food. Again the seating of Club Car is at an extra fare and should by common reasoning be as well of added comfort and not less. Ultimately on our trip homeward we chose to sit in standard coach class cars as they had nice roomy seating.

Items like this is what customer relations needs to address, and not with white wash and sneering smiles of "Who cares, and or what can we do about it?"

Myself for many years previous of today and even before and after this sad ride on the train I helped keep our Michigan rail lines operating. The trains were when under Penn Central ran then as they do today, similar in numbers or trains and scheduling of them. They are clean inside, and windows appear too often as equal to P.C. with the exception that along the rails the trees are trimmed away from doing brush cleaning during wet weather when the train is passing green trees with wet leaves as then operated in the glorious 60's.

Train washing is something long hence ignored by the rail operators, save Amtrak who continues to feel monetary crunches, obviously due to limited availability of funds, as well foul weather.

The exceptions were in history as of such railroads as Union Pacific, Santa Fe, Burlington, Western Pacific, Great Northern, Northern Pacific, Grand Trunk Western, Southern Ry, and likely a few others I do not know of who kept glass clean year-round. People like to view the countryside and peering through unwashed glass is not the way to earn return business/riders.

If the suggestion strikes a common concern, then by use of pressure washing of trains mid route, at various station trackage, the delight of customers traveling would take a drastic up-turn toward thinking in positive attitude toward using the train again. I would be happy to suggest such an item added to the Kalamazoo station facility, at the city commission meeting. They too have limited funds available, but by suggesting of such an enhancement, the idea is posted in the minutes and made available to bring up the question again.

Many continuing concerns come with operating such a wide variance of routes and trains. Passenger comfort and enjoyment need to be primary, at the least in the marketing and equipment availability.

This opening a smaller forum considering suggestions by passengers for on-train comfort:

You want to see some dirty trains, inside and out? Then ride the Pacific Surfliners, which have such tight schedules to keep that they are turned around at the destinations of San Diego, LA and Santa Barbara within 30 minutes in most cases--sometimes even less when trying to make up for lost time. That means less than minimum cleaning i.e. no cleaning during the entire day. Trash is removed as much as possible from the coaches just before the final stop by the business class attendant who comes through the train asking for bottles, cans, papers, etc. But there is no one who goes through the coaches and tidies them up before the next run begins. And the bathrooms?? Well, you should hope you never have to use one on any run after the first one or two trips in the mornings. The toilet tanks frequently are out of the blue sanitation liquid, soap is at a premium and toilet paper is more than occasionally gone. The only exception is in the Superliner cars frequently used--one per train--on the Surfliners as extra coaches. That's because the cars have 5 or 6 bathrooms on the lower level and because many riders don't sit in them because they think the cars are biz class because they look--and are--so much more comfortable than the standard Surfliner coach. In general, though, bladder control is a very desired trait to have while riding along the SoCal coastline.

 

[ryangs]

So no news on whether any of the Michigan trains are still using Superliners?

 

[Donctor]

I "know" you are just trying to help, and explain the "realities" of Amtrak as it is today, but your reply comes across as an "excuse" for Amtrak, and a "that's the way it is, now just learn to live with it-kind of attitude."
I LOVE the idea of at least going to the K-zoo city commission, and getting it on record. There is about a 0 in 100 chance of anything happening. But what would it take? Purchase of two commercial grade power-washers, someone to schedule the 'volunteers' to do the work, or use work release of work-fare participants. X-number of trains per day, (prolly don't have to do the same train-set over and over on each different run)

I ***KNOW*** that power washers aren't the preferred method to clean windows, and maybe some jerk would hit the trigger and position it in the wrong place and splash a passenger, or put an eye out, or something else un-thought of.

But I still LIKE the idea. "Kalamazoo, MI, where Every Amtrak Train Gets A Clear View" or some such Mktg bulls*h*i*t.

It's silly, stoopid ideas like THIS, that make people REMEMBER their trip. Genius, just genius. I know what **I'M** doing when I retire. I'm gonna wash me some Amtrak trains, even if Amtrak "dun't" want me too......

Oh dear god, what ever will we do? Dirty windows? Hell, I'd rather have no train than one with dirty windows! And, hey, if you harassing Kalamazoo officials gets them to pay whatever it is you're talking about, including whatever Amtrak disruption is caused, more power to you.

 

[zoltan]

There are those that used to be called Club-Dinettes, which have 2-1 seating and there are ex-Metroliner cars which have 2-2 seating with footrests. I believe that the ex-Metroliner cars are exclusively used in Northeast Regionals and on certain trains that run medium distance originating in the NEC, typically New York. As an example the Carolinian and the Lynchburg Regional comes to mind. In spite of being 2-2 seating it is amazing how full those cars run on Northeast Regionals. The seats in these cars are definitely more comfortable than on the regular Amfleet I Coaches.

My last encounter with an ex-metroliner business class car was, funnily enough, one placed as the front car of the Adirondack consist, acting as coach class. In that context, I greatly appreciated the comfort and legroom...

 

[ferroequineologist]

On my recent Amtrak tour, I resorted to cleaning my Zephyr windows myself. The windows on the left are my roomette, after a quick clean. You will see the dirt on the others, at Emmeryville, just before the train departs on its "scenic" trip through the Sierra Nevada and Rocky Mountains.

Yes, it is a lower level roomette..!

Mind You, they paint some sort of heat reflective yellow gunk onto the train windows in India.. it's like looking at the scenery through a sandstorm!

More pics and trip report: English rail hobo.. (following days links at top right of each page in red)

Cheers, Eddie

MYSELF, I DID THE SAME WHEN TRAVELING FROM CHICAGO, IL. ON THE OLD/EARLY ON AMTRAK "CITY OF MIAMI," THE WINDOWS THERE TOO WERE SO FILTHY THEN THAT AT CHAMPLAIN,IL. I GOT OFF THE TRAIN ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE FROM THE STATION AND USED A COTTON HAND TOWEL TO CLEAN THE WINDOW.

ITS NOT SMART TO DO, AND DANGEROUS TOO IF ANOTHER TRAIN HAPPENED PAST, BUT... TO GET IT DONE RIGHT, AND ABEL TO SEE THE COUNTRYSIDE I PAID TO SEE, SOMETHING REQUIRED TAKING THE CHANCE.

SAD TO ADMIT IT BUT I RARELY TAKE THE TRAIN ANYMORE, TOO MANY NASTY PEOPLE, CANNOT GET A RESERVED SEAT TO SIT WITH THE WIFE, AND THE CLUB CAR SEATING IN THE LOUNGE TAKES SECOND CLASS TO THE FORTH CLASS MAIL AND PACKAGE OVERFLOW FROM THE CAB-BAGGAGE UNIT UP FRONT.

APPRECIATIVE,

Ferro-Equine-Ologist